Watch Idle Hours & Change Oil every 3k Miles to Avoid Engine Failure!!

[HEMIMANN]

I don't think we're saying there is zero lubrication - I have been saying the lubrication is bordering on failure. In general, failures follow a probability curve, statistically a normal bell shaped distribution.

Robust design means both the average time to failure is at expectation (vehicles now days are north of 100,000 miles), AND the spread of failures (standard deviation) is narrow - that's where the vaunted "6 Sigma" quality control comes in. The failure rate of the lifters and cam is way, way out of modern quality control measures, to the point we know something is wrong. But whatever it is means the application is borderline, because the average failure is still high.

Make sense? Therefore, we are making the lubricant more robust to try to overcome the design weakness.

 

[HEMIMANN]

All good points in that video but If MDS all the time is actually the key for pressurization why in the ef would the engineers not keep eco/mds on at idle which is arguably the most critical time of proper lube, not to mention save fuel at the same time, win-win.

Same could be said for tow/haul mode. Also doesn't make sense they would give everyone a way to defeat it by going into manual shift mode

Nobody runs special features at idle because there's little power to turn the engine over. There are frictional losses associated with dead-heading 4 cylinders.

 

[tron67j]

All good points in that video but If MDS all the time is actually the key for pressurization why in the ef would the engineers not keep eco/mds on at idle which is arguably the most critical time of proper lube, not to mention save fuel at the same time, win-win.

Same could be said for tow/haul mode. Also doesn't make sense they would give everyone a way to defeat it by going into manual shift mode

Yes, great questions, would be interested in hearing from an engineer who worked on this design/modification. Perhaps the knowledge about the benefit of pressurization is either just something we might be learning about. The original intention, if I got this right, is to push in those lifter tabs in and no one ever thought about it being a solution to another problem. As far as turning off MDS with tow mode, I'm assuming that leaving it on while towing or working the engine hard just causes an uneven ride for the vehicle and the occupants so it was added to facilitate a more steady ride. However, again, a lack of understanding that the pressurization is actually something that could maybe solve the hemi problem may not have been in their minds at the time. On why it turns off at idle, maybe again the lack of knowledge of potential pressurization benefits resulted an engineer saying that "the lag time of reactivating all cylinders when stomping the gas will annoy our customers, so since they are already idling at low RPM, let's turn MDS off".

I don't know any of the above to be true, just thinking out loud.

 

[18GSMRam]

I don't think we're saying there is zero lubrication - I have been saying the lubrication is bordering on failure. In general, failures follow a probability curve, statistically a normal bell shaped distribution.

Robust design means both the average time to failure is at expectation (vehicles now days are north of 100,000 miles), AND the spread of failures (standard deviation) is narrow - that's where the vaunted "6 Sigma" quality control comes in. The failure rate of the lifters and cam is way, way out of modern quality control measures, to the point we know something is wrong. But whatever it is means the application is borderline, because the average failure is still high.

Make sense? Therefore, we are making the lubricant more robust to try to overcome the design weakness.

I get all the six sigma stuff but do we really have enough info to say it's out of modern quality control measures? Not saying it isn't but I haven't seen any concrete data.

Only people that have that info is Chrysler and I'd say they aren't even telling the dealers that let alone peons like us.

Yes, great questions, would be interested in hearing from an engineer who worked on this design/modification. Perhaps the knowledge about the benefit of pressurization is either just something we might be learning about. The original intention, if I got this right, is to push in those lifter tabs in and no one ever thought about it being a solution to another problem. As far as turning off MDS with tow mode, I'm assuming that leaving it on while towing or working the engine hard just causes an uneven ride for the vehicle and the occupants so it was added to facilitate a more steady ride. However, again, a lack of understanding that the pressurization is actually something that could maybe solve the hemi problem may not have been in their minds at the time. On why it turns off at idle, maybe again the lack of knowledge of potential pressurization benefits resulted an engineer saying that "the lag time of reactivating all cylinders when stomping the gas will annoy our customers, so since they are already idling at low RPM, let's turn MDS off".

I don't know any of the above to be true, just thinking out loud.

Agree, no one knows for certain other than Chrysler, all we can do is muse about and do what we think is best to mitigate it from happening to our own vehicles.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I get all the six sigma stuff but do we really have enough info to say it's out of modern quality control measures? Not saying it isn't but I haven't seen any concrete data.

Only people that have that info is Chrysler and I'd say they aren't even telling the dealers that let alone peons like us.



Agree, no one knows for certain other than Chrysler, all we can do is muse about and do what we think is best to mitigate it from happening to our own vehicles.

Yes. I'm telling you that as a retired design engineer / manager from a Fortune 100 manufacturing corporation.

 

[John Schmidt]

In addition to reducing idle hours, and frequent OCIs, one of the no cost things I implemented was raising my idle speed from 550 to 650.

Can not really tell the difference between the two speeds and oil pressure is 42 at idle vs 38.

If you are tuned, this cost nothing and is reversible.

 

[Chas0218]

Diesel engine oil is totally inappropriate for gasoline engines. I has lower quality base stock oil and extreme levels of detergent dispersant to hold the blowby soot in solution. Diesel oils typically don't contain moly, and they have cut way back on zinc because it poisons the exhaust catalysts required on all modern diesel engines.

Then run break in oil, high in phosphorous, and zinc and im pretty sure moly

 

[Chas0218]

You can adjust idle using crusie control buttons on certain 6.4 chassis cabs and all Cummins

So that's a no go on the 2500s?

 

[StickyLifter]

If my junk destroys itself I'm changing the engine to a Chevy Mark IV.

 

[John Schmidt]

Unless you don't want to pay for tune just for that, you can shut off MDS by using the manual gear selector. Every time after engine start.

Actually, after every time you put it into Drive, correct? I have found that if (for whatever reason) I shift out of Drive to Neutral or Reverse, upon putting the truck back into Drive, I once again have to use the manual gear selector ... to disable MDS. - John

 

[White six four]

Actually, after every time you put it into Drive, correct? I have found that if (for whatever reason) I shift out of Drive to Neutral or Reverse, upon putting the truck back into Drive, I once again have to use the manual gear selector ... to disable MDS. - John

Yes sir. That's what I do on mine.

 

[John Schmidt]

The lack of lube on the roller bearings is a well documented shortcoming of the current OHV design, failures resulted when they raised the camshaft and didn't allow sufficient lubrication on the cam-roller interface.

I've got about 250 idle hours and 60kkm's, i inspected my roller bearings when I pulled the cam at 55k km's and they seemed fine, but I changed the rollers as cheap insurance. It's really hit and miss with these hemi's.

PS There no such thing as a "hellcat lifter", the part numbers are all the same.

Don't know about Hellcat lifters, but a true MDS delete will require non-MDS lifters in all positions, a non-MDS camshaft, removal of MDS solenoids (replace with Mopar plugs) and a tune. True? I think if I took my engine apart, I would do all of that. Did you consider this? - John

 

[David_Jacobs]

Don't know about Hellcat lifters, but a true MDS delete will require non-MDS lifters in all positions, a non-MDS camshaft, removal of MDS solenoids (replace with Mopar plugs) and a tune. True? I think if I took my engine apart, I would do all of that. Did you consider this? - John

Hi, I should have been more clear. I replaced the following: Cam shaft (MMX-NSR), lifters (all non-mds), pushrods, LT headers and the rest of the seals/bolts etc. required to do the job. Took me about 10 days working alone is a small garage in the middle of winter.

 

[Playwelder]

If you own 2014-2018 heavy duty with 6.4 Hemi; do yourself a favor and try to never idle engine and change oil every 3k miles or earlier. If you can’t do those 2 things, get rid of truck now!

Just went 2 months without a truck due to engine failure and $9,000 later(for rebuilt) due to having to go to more than one shop for fix. Parts are scarce and marked up. Hard to find new 6.4 engines anywhere for Ram Trucks. Most places won’t warranty 3rd party engines. If you know how to work on engine yourself, you’ll spend half of what I spent.

My truck only has 105k miles (+\- 900 idle hours and 3,500 drive hours). Camshaft was completely destroyed, it clogged oil pump and starved engine of oil. I changed oil whenever truck oil notification went off (I learned my lesson not to trust it). Always used recommended pennzoil and never drove with engine light on or went cheap with replacement parts for engine. If you have an engine tick that doesn’t go away after truck is warmed up, get truck fixed immediately before it gets worse or trade in for another one. Seriously! I’m out a total $19,000 total since owning my truck with repairs. Tranny destroyed itself at 85k miles. Water pump at 90k miles, coil packs and spark plugs at 95k miles, ball joints at 104k miles, etc.

Humm, learned of liffter failure on u-tube. I have 2019 big horn ram. I now run Amsoil in my truck. HOPEING ENGINE WILL LAST.

If you own 2014-2018 heavy duty with 6.4 Hemi; do yourself a favor and try to never idle engine and change oil every 3k miles or earlier. If you can’t do those 2 things, get rid of truck now!

Just went 2 months without a truck due to engine failure and $9,000 later(for rebuilt) due to having to go to more than one shop for fix. Parts are scarce and marked up. Hard to find new 6.4 engines anywhere for Ram Trucks. Most places won’t warranty 3rd party engines. If you know how to work on engine yourself, you’ll spend half of what I spent.

My truck only has 105k miles (+\- 900 idle hours and 3,500 drive hours). Camshaft was completely destroyed, it clogged oil pump and starved engine of oil. I changed oil whenever truck oil notification went off (I learned my lesson not to trust it). Always used recommended pennzoil and never drove with engine light on or went cheap with replacement parts for engine. If you have an engine tick that doesn’t go away after truck is warmed up, get truck fixed immediately before it gets worse or trade in for another one. Seriously! I’m out a total $19,000 total since owning my truck with repairs. Tranny destroyed itself at 85k miles. Water pump at 90k miles, coil packs and spark plugs at 95k miles, ball joints at 104k miles, etc.

I HERE YA at 25,000 miles I switched to Amsoil. I got a 2019 ram 1500.I hope my sngine lasts a long time

 

[2020PW]

Pennzoil has a 10 year 300k mile for conventional oil or 15 year 500k for synthetic oil warranty. All you have to do is create an account and post the receipts when you change the oil.

Then there’s the Mopar 7 year unlimited mileage warranty for $4k.

There’s options if your worried about engine failure besides trying to re-engineer everything.

Here’s the kicker, we have a fleet of Silverados, Ram and F-Series. The majority of them are 1/2 ton and 3/4 v-8 engines. This is a major global heavy equipment company. We use a fleet management company for maintenance. They send us to any retailer (quick lubes, dealerships) and use cheap bulk oil and cheap filters. We have to change the oil every 5K. We don’t see the issues everyone is concerned with. We see driveline issues and electrical, probably because we are not easy on them.

Don’t put too much weight on marketing hype.

 

[Tom6363]

2014 6.4 with the wrist pin problem....engine changed at 6k miles with new crate under warranty. Just hit 125k miles, oil changes every 4-5k miles, only 330 idle hours, damn MDS apparently caused scoring in the engine and shavings in my oil. Oil pressure dropped to 8psi. Now it's getting another crate at $12k on my dime. POS, 2nd and last RAM for me.

 

[SCL79]

2014 6.4 84k 3500 and the cam is toast. 4k oil changes no abuse. So, gonna replace myself need recomendations on cam and lifters, where to get, etc... Looking at RockAuto and Summit right now. What say the gurus lol? Also, are the kits on eBay worth a look or just a headache waiting to happen? Happy with stock, its not an HP mod.

 

[DILLIGAF]

If you use OEM part you get OEM results ( Except Solid Lifters ) ... lol.. And all you guys saying you didnt abuse your engines, You did by not bumping the idle and turning off MDS off the lot.

 

[Wild one]

2014 6.4 84k 3500 and the cam is toast. 4k oil changes no abuse. So, gonna replace myself need recomendations on cam and lifters, where to get, etc... Looking at RockAuto and Summit right now. What say the gurus lol? Also, are the kits on eBay worth a look or just a headache waiting to happen? Happy with stock, its not an HP mod.

Check with Matt Fikac at Moes,as i think he's got a line of cams that don't require tuning. Dilligaf is right though,the best thing you can do for a hemi is up the idle rpm to at least 700 or slightly more,and don't baby the truck.Even Ma Mopar says to drive them slightly aggressive,as driving a hemi like Grandma isn't doing it any favours.

MMX 5.7L VVT NO TUNE REQUIRED NON-MDS Camshaft

MMX 5.7L VVT NO TUNE REQUIRED NON-MDS Camshaft

www.moes-performance.com