Whether or not to get a Ram for towing ...

[hemismith]

I had a 2004 2500 Hemi with 4.10 gears. Hated it as a tow vehicle. It was fine on the flat, but I had to downshift to 2nd on any hill (of which there are a lot of here in the west), which meant a max of 55 mph and 4500 rpm with my foot to the floor for 20+ minutes at a time. Had to use 1st gear over some of the high passes where the altitude sucked all the power out of it. Eventually I got a Cummins, but sold the trailer and the truck after a couple years. A few years later I got an F-150 Ecoboost, partly because of the turbo and also because of limited payload with the Ram, but sold that last year. Now I am looking to get another truck and trailer and considering a Ram again, but my towing concerns remain.

I plan to tow no more than 7000 lbs and would prefer a half ton. I hear the 8-speed transmission really helps; the Hemi has a a little more torque at lower rpms now too but not sure it's enough to make a difference; even the Ford 5.0 has more power and torque. I was thinking of the Ecodiesel, apparently they solved a lot of the reliability issues, but reviews say they have heat issues when towing. IMO they missed the mark with all the small diesels; they designed them for light-duty gas mileage only and forgot why people buy trucks. I always thought a 4 liter turbo gas or diesel would be a good engine (the Ford 3.5 does pretty good). Of course the new Hurricane engine might be the answer, but it will probably have reliability issues for several years.

So do I give the Ram another shot or stick with Ford? I started looking at inventory; I prefer to buy new. Ford has limited inventory and no discounts. There are hundreds of Ram 1500s available near me though, with discounts. But no Ecodiesels and only half with the Hemi. None have 3.92 gears, only one with a tow package and it was a v6, only 2 with the longer bed. Every single one had 20" wheels, which I don't care about and is worse for performance. None had the air suspension. Do dealers have no clue or are there supply chain issues or do people just not care about these options?

 

[Wire4money]

Pick your poison. I feel the Ram Hemi will be more reliable than the Ford 5.0. When I was shopping, I was looking at the 2.7 Ecoboost, it seemed to fit my towing needs best. I was unimpressed with the rest. The Hemi is overkill for my 4K lb trailer, but overall I felt better about the quality, as it seems Ford has has a ton of recalls lately. If you are that concerned, I’d be looking at the Ford 3.5. You can’t beat the low end torque of a turbo.

 

[crash68]

I plan to tow no more than 7000 lbs and would prefer a half ton. I hear the 8-speed transmission really helps; the Hemi has a a little more torque at lower rpms now too but not sure it's enough to make a difference; even the Ford 5.0 has more power and torque. I was thinking of the Ecodiesel, apparently they solved a lot of the reliability issues, but reviews say they have heat issues when towing.

The 8 speed makes a huge difference while towing as compared to the previous transmissions Ram used.
As for the EcoDiesel the temperature issues, any of those were resolved with the Gen3 motor found in the DT body Ram trucks. It's does a fine job towing any trailer one would hitch up behind a half ton truck, even trailers some would say are in 2500 territory(many are convinced a 1/2 ton shouldn't tow more than a wave runner).
If your towing in elevations, truthfully I'd lean twords the EcoBoost over the Hemi. It won't suffer the power loss going up in altitude like a naturally aspirated engine will. A lot of Hemi die hards on this forum will say there's no replacement for displacement till you climbing a grade with a turbo (or supercharger).

 

[hemismith]

Pick your poison. I feel the Ram Hemi will be more reliable than the Ford 5.0. When I was shopping, I was looking at the 2.7 Ecoboost, it seemed to fit my towing needs best. I was unimpressed with the rest. The Hemi is overkill for my 4K lb trailer, but overall I felt better about the quality, as it seems Ford has has a ton of recalls lately. If you are that concerned, I’d be looking at the Ford 3.5. You can’t beat the low end torque of a turbo.

Thanks. I do think the Ford 3.5 is the best overall option, but they are a lot more expensive and limited availability right now. Also, my wife loves the sound of a V8, and the Ram gets better overall reviews. I assumed the Hemi was pretty well sorted out by now, didn't know about the Ford recalls, although a friend of mine had a major issue with his Hemi recently and it took months to sort out.

 

[hemismith]

The 8 speed makes a huge difference while towing as compared to the previous transmissions Ram used.
As for the EcoDiesel the temperature issues, any of those were resolved with the Gen3 motor found in the DT body Ram trucks. It's does a fine job towing any trailer one would hitch up behind a half ton truck, even trailers some would say are in 2500 territory(many are convinced a 1/2 ton shouldn't tow more than a wave runner).
If your towing in elevations, truthfully I'd lean twords the EcoBoost over the Hemi. It won't suffer the power loss going up in altitude like a naturally aspirated engine will. A lot of Hemi die hards on this forum will say there's no replacement for displacement till you climbing a grade with a turbo (or supercharger).

Thanks very much, I'll give both of those some thought. The Ecodiesel is of course being discontinued, so may not be an option. I don't need to rush this purchase so will have to be a little more patient. I was hoping the Hemi would work but probably not the best for my situation.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I had a 2004 2500 Hemi with 4.10 gears. Hated it as a tow vehicle. It was fine on the flat, but I had to downshift to 2nd on any hill (of which there are a lot of here in the west), which meant a max of 55 mph and 4500 rpm with my foot to the floor for 20+ minutes at a time. Had to use 1st gear over some of the high passes where the altitude sucked all the power out of it. Eventually I got a Cummins, but sold the trailer and the truck after a couple years. A few years later I got an F-150 Ecoboost, partly because of the turbo and also because of limited payload with the Ram, but sold that last year. Now I am looking to get another truck and trailer and considering a Ram again, but my towing concerns remain.

I plan to tow no more than 7000 lbs and would prefer a half ton. I hear the 8-speed transmission really helps; the Hemi has a a little more torque at lower rpms now too but not sure it's enough to make a difference; even the Ford 5.0 has more power and torque. I was thinking of the Ecodiesel, apparently they solved a lot of the reliability issues, but reviews say they have heat issues when towing. IMO they missed the mark with all the small diesels; they designed them for light-duty gas mileage only and forgot why people buy trucks. I always thought a 4 liter turbo gas or diesel would be a good engine (the Ford 3.5 does pretty good). Of course the new Hurricane engine might be the answer, but it will probably have reliability issues for several years.

So do I give the Ram another shot or stick with Ford? I started looking at inventory; I prefer to buy new. Ford has limited inventory and no discounts. There are hundreds of Ram 1500s available near me though, with discounts. But no Ecodiesels and only half with the Hemi. None have 3.92 gears, only one with a tow package and it was a v6, only 2 with the longer bed. Every single one had 20" wheels, which I don't care about and is worse for performance. None had the air suspension. Do dealers have no clue or are there supply chain issues or do people just not care about these options?

If you can wait a few months for delivery, order exactly what you want. Granger Ford is 3% under invoice, Granger CJDR is 5% under invoice. Then it's irrelevant what's on the lot and you can get exactly what you want in your next truck. But you will have to wait.

 

[Farmer Fran]

7k lbs you will want the 3.92s

 

[BossHogg]

7k lbs you will want the 3.92s

I disagree. Perhaps if you are towing primarily in constant stop-and-go traffic, the 3:92s would give the drive line a bit less stress but then the drive lines are built to handle the towing stresses within the published ratings.

When I had my 2013 Hemi 8 speed with 3:21s, I would pull around my flatbed trailer with my tractor/backhoe on it, around a total pull weight of 7,200 pounds. The truck pulled it without any drama whatsoever.

The 8-speed coupled with 3:21s provides a better torque pull than the 6-speed transmission with 3:92 axle ratios.

 

[Farmer Fran]

I disagree. Perhaps if you are towing primarily in constant stop-and-go traffic, the 3:92s would give the drive line a bit less stress but then the drive lines are built to handle the towing stresses within the published ratings.

When I had my 2013 Hemi 8 speed with 3:21s, I would pull around my flatbed trailer with my tractor/backhoe on it, around a total pull weight of 7,200 pounds. The truck pulled it without any drama whatsoever.

The 8-speed coupled with 3:21s provides a better torque pull than the 6-speed transmission with 3:92 axle ratios.

If you say so, my personal experience towing my Denali in the "mountains" of NC with a hemi 3.21 was miserable vs the hemi with 3.92.

 

[18CrewDually]

Restricting your choices to a 1500 /150 platform, after your purchase, leaves you with a memorable tow experience of a Cummins, which will result in you questioning your decision.
Maybe I'm bias, but so are the Hemi guys that will defend how great they can be. Personally I'd make a list & see if the 1500 checks off all your boxes, taking in consideration the frequency of towing. If towing often especially in the mountain country you could guess my bias choice. Between the heavier duty chassis of the Cummins powered truck and not only torque but also the down grade exhaust braking ability, there is only one choice for me.
Not having the trailer already makes it a little more difficult since you really do not know the weight you'll be towing. You may have a target weight of 7k but loaded up you could end up with a trailer quite a bit heavier. You can never have too much truck but easily have not enough. On the camping forums I see this all the time.
Best of luck in your research & decision.

 

[Irishthreeper]

I think you’ll find the newer 6.4 Hemi with the 8 spd and 4.10’s would be a tremendous improvement over your ‘04 truck. The 5.7 with 3.92’s is also a strong towing truck. Good luck on your choices!

 

[runamuck]

the 3.92 rear end and the 8 speed are the sweet spot for towing with a 1500 in my view. my ram tows our 6000# 28' travel trailer night and day better than the '17 GMC sierra I had before. it had the 3.42 rear end and 6 speed and it would do the job but it struggled. also when not towing, my ram laramie is a lot more fun to drive. 7000# tho would be the max. in my view. I recently towed our trailer form DFW to Woodland Park, Col. and back and it did fine even with Raton pass but another 1000# would have made a big difference I think.

 

[BossHogg]

If you say so, my personal experience towing my Denali in the "mountains" of NC with a hemi 3.21 was miserable vs the hemi with 3.92.

Now you are introducing mountain towing, a completely different beast. You want to tow up the hills, a turbo-charged diesel, and coming down, you want the exhaust brake.

The transmission has 8 gears, each offering a mechanical torque value. For example, you can force 7th gear on a 3:21 ratio and that will equal 8th on a 3:92. Likewise, the 3:21's 3rd gear equates to the 3:92s 4th gear. This relationship is linear for all ratios except for 1st on a 3:92 axle ratio. The only advantage a 3:92 ratio provides is from a dead stop thus my earlier statement about stop-and-go driving.

Why was your experience miserable? Did you not select a transmission gear that would keep the engine RPMs in the powerband on the truck with the 3:21s and you did with the truck that had 3:92s?

 

[18CrewDually]

Now you are introducing mountain towing, a completely different beast. You want to tow up the hills, a turbo-charged diesel, and coming down, you want the exhaust brake.

The transmission has 8 gears, each offering a mechanical torque value. For example, you can force 7th gear on a 3:21 ratio and that will equal 8th on a 3:92. Likewise, the 3:21's 3rd gear equates to the 3:92s 4th gear. This relationship is linear for all ratios except for 1st on a 3:92 axle ratio. The only advantage a 3:92 ratio provides is from a dead stop thus my earlier statement about stop-and-go driving.

Why was your experience miserable? Did you not select a transmission gear that would keep the engine RPMs in the powerband on the truck with the 3:21s and you did with the truck that had 3:92s?

The OP 3rd sentence. It's been about pulling grade from the start.

 

[Farmer Fran]

Now you are introducing mountain towing, a completely different beast. You want to tow up the hills, a turbo-charged diesel, and coming down, you want the exhaust brake.

The transmission has 8 gears, each offering a mechanical torque value. For example, you can force 7th gear on a 3:21 ratio and that will equal 8th on a 3:92. Likewise, the 3:21's 3rd gear equates to the 3:92s 4th gear. This relationship is linear for all ratios except for 1st on a 3:92 axle ratio. The only advantage a 3:92 ratio provides is from a dead stop thus my earlier statement about stop-and-go driving.

Why was your experience miserable? Did you not select a transmission gear that would keep the engine RPMs in the powerband on the truck with the 3:21s and you did with the truck that had 3:92s?

I just put it in tow haul and D and go. The 3.92 was smooth and the 3.21 always seemed to struggle.

Just saying what I experienced personally.

 

[Randy Grant]

Restricting your choices to a 1500 /150 platform, after your purchase, leaves you with a memorable tow experience of a Cummins, which will result in you questioning your decision.
Maybe I'm bias, but so are the Hemi guys that will defend how great they can be. Personally I'd make a list & see if the 1500 checks off all your boxes, taking in consideration the frequency of towing. If towing often especially in the mountain country you could guess my bias choice. Between the heavier duty chassis of the Cummins powered truck and not only torque but also the down grade exhaust braking ability, there is only one choice for me.
Not having the trailer already makes it a little more difficult since you really do not know the weight you'll be towing. You may have a target weight of 7k but loaded up you could end up with a trailer quite a bit heavier. You can never have too much truck but easily have not enough. On the camping forums I see this all the time.
Best of luck in your research & decision.

Towed with a Duramax, and now the Hemi with the 3.92. Diesel never broke a sweat, and loved the exhaust break on the downgrades, but the Hemi hasn't had a problem with uphill or long downgrades, so, with the price of diesel now, and long hauls in the winter, I am completely happy with the 1500, Hemi, and 3.92's. But, that's just me.

 

[hemismith]

If you can wait a few months for delivery, order exactly what you want. Granger Ford is 3% under invoice, Granger CJDR is 5% under invoice. Then it's irrelevant what's on the lot and you can get exactly what you want in your next truck. But you will have to wait.

I can, although I don't know if you can still order an ecodiesel. In the past I have always bought through corporate contracts, now I have to do my own deal. Good to know about Granger, I hadn't heard of them. There are a couple others in Idaho that are pretty big and usually have good deals but I doubt that good.

 

[hemismith]

7k lbs you will want the 3.92s

I disagree. Perhaps if you are towing primarily in constant stop-and-go traffic, the 3:92s would give the drive line a bit less stress but then the drive lines are built to handle the towing stresses within the published ratings.

When I had my 2013 Hemi 8 speed with 3:21s, I would pull around my flatbed trailer with my tractor/backhoe on it, around a total pull weight of 7,200 pounds. The truck pulled it without any drama whatsoever.

The 8-speed coupled with 3:21s provides a better torque pull than the 6-speed transmission with 3:92 axle ratios.

If you say so, my personal experience towing my Denali in the "mountains" of NC with a hemi 3.21 was miserable vs the hemi with 3.92.

It depends somewhat on the individual situation. There are speeds where the 3.21s will provide more torque multiplication than the 3.92s as it can stay in a lower gear longer. Overall the 3.92s give more flexibility though as there is less of a speed difference between gears.

 

[hemismith]

Restricting your choices to a 1500 /150 platform, after your purchase, leaves you with a memorable tow experience of a Cummins, which will result in you questioning your decision.
Maybe I'm bias, but so are the Hemi guys that will defend how great they can be. Personally I'd make a list & see if the 1500 checks off all your boxes, taking in consideration the frequency of towing. If towing often especially in the mountain country you could guess my bias choice. Between the heavier duty chassis of the Cummins powered truck and not only torque but also the down grade exhaust braking ability, there is only one choice for me.
Not having the trailer already makes it a little more difficult since you really do not know the weight you'll be towing. You may have a target weight of 7k but loaded up you could end up with a trailer quite a bit heavier. You can never have too much truck but easily have not enough. On the camping forums I see this all the time.
Best of luck in your research & decision.

Thanks. Yeah, heavier duty is certainly better but cost and ride quality are concerns. The Hemis are great around town without a trailer. Before I bought my first truck I had actually ordered a Cummins, but back then they didn't have an exhaust brake and supposedly you'd void the warranty if you added one, and I didn't want to risk relying solely on the regular brakes, so changed right before I got it. I agree that not having the trailer is a little but of an unknown, but I really want to stick with a smaller one as there are too many places in the mountains that can't fit large trailers easily. We'll see, my wife does have a tendency to gravitate towards larger ones...

 

[BossHogg]

It depends somewhat on the individual situation. There are speeds where the 3.21s will provide more torque multiplication than the 3.92s as it can stay in a lower gear longer. Overall the 3.92s give more flexibility though as there is less of a speed difference between gears.

There is a very detailed look at gear ratios and transmission output ratios in another RAM forum you may find interesting and informative to read. The meat is in the first post of the thread. Look for a thread titled;

An Engineer's Ultimate Guide To 3.21 VS 3.92 Axle Ratio​

in the 5th GEN general discussion at 5thgenrams dot com