Whether or not to get a Ram for towing ...

[gofishn]

There is a very detailed look at gear ratios and transmission output ratios in another RAM forum you may find interesting and informative to read. The meat is in the first post of the thread. Look for a thread titled;

An Engineer's Ultimate Guide To 3.21 VS 3.92 Axle Ratio​

in the 5th GEN general discussion at 5thgenrams dot com

Might want to put the ENGINEER's part in Fine Print.

Got pretty high opinions of lots of Engineers.
There's Locomotive Engineers, Sanitation Engineers, etc.
Then there's the Idiots that designed this junk to start with and those fools I do trust , whatsoever.

OP,
4.10 is not a highway speed, towing gear, period.

3.73, even a 3.92 will get you there. 3.73 being preferable but 3.92 will do it too, just at higher RPM's and crappy fuel economy.

3.21 will even do the job. Mostly. but I don't want one.
All you other guys, with 3.21's, glad it makes you happy.
Truly.

The tranny does help
ALOT
but as with any chain, it's the weakest link.


Decide what works, for you.

Long Distance Runner
Power Lifter who also does Cardio
or the great big, fat SOB, who hardly ever needs to move, always moves slowly when he does move
but ever grabs a hold of something, its game over.



I'd suggest 5.7 Hemi with a 3.92
or 2500 6.4 hemi with a 3.73

 

[gofishn]

Never mind.
Too Much Coffee, not enough Sleep.

I blame the Wife.
She told me , last night, at bedtime, she wants to go look at $4K Sewing Machines today.

WTH?
I buy a new truck, you go out of state for 2 weeks, literally 2 days later.
Not even home for 4 hours and you want to go looking at outrageously overpriced, foreign, Sewing Machines?

That's Right, Mister!
You got a NEW Truck!





@#)*(^&%&&*(@$(_(@$*)+@(^$*)^(Y@$_(&Y@^(_$&&(_@$

All she's going to do with it is make Butt Ugly Quilts.


You Know, outside of having to do Laundry. I really enjoyed these last 2 weeks.
Pretty sure the Dog did too.

Though the Butt Sniffing Traitor sure did get all goofy when the Wife came home.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Though the Butt Sniffing Traitor sure did get all goofy when the Wife came home.

How did the dog react, though?

 

[gofishn]

How did the dog react, though?

One Time
Just one Time!

Butt Sniffer for Life

 

[JerryETX]

I have a good friend who has a 17 Ram 2500 2WD with the 5.7 Hemi 8 speed. He used my F150 with 3.5 Eco before I sold it to pull his boat because his truck was down. Granted his boat isn't that heavy (4kish) but he said the 3.5 Eco had considerably more power. Said it pulled like his old 7.3 Powerstroke. That 3.5 Eco (with 3:55 10 speed) also has more towing power than my 6.4 Hemi with 3:73 and 6 speed. I had a CCSB 4WD F150 and could set the cruise a 75 on the insterstate and get 21 mpg. The big downside to the 3.5 Eco that most complain about (aside from the auto stop/start) is the towing fuel mileage. Pulling a 28' TT that was around 7k is averaged 7-8 mpg. If I didn't have a 38' TT now to pull I would have another 3.5 Eco.

 

[Okie345]

Three quarter tons are alot nicer to tow with. It's not just the bigger engine, it's the stronger running gear way less trailer sway. The wind likes too blow the half tons around where I live especially with a high profile trailer.

 

[Doug Ram]

I had a 2004 2500 Hemi with 4.10 gears. Hated it as a tow vehicle. It was fine on the flat, but I had to downshift to 2nd on any hill (of which there are a lot of here in the west), which meant a max of 55 mph and 4500 rpm with my foot to the floor for 20+ minutes at a time. Had to use 1st gear over some of the high passes where the altitude sucked all the power out of it. Eventually I got a Cummins, but sold the trailer and the truck after a couple years. A few years later I got an F-150 Ecoboost, partly because of the turbo and also because of limited payload with the Ram, but sold that last year. Now I am looking to get another truck and trailer and considering a Ram again, but my towing concerns remain.

I plan to tow no more than 7000 lbs and would prefer a half ton. I hear the 8-speed transmission really helps; the Hemi has a a little more torque at lower rpms now too but not sure it's enough to make a difference; even the Ford 5.0 has more power and torque. I was thinking of the Ecodiesel, apparently they solved a lot of the reliability issues, but reviews say they have heat issues when towing. IMO they missed the mark with all the small diesels; they designed them for light-duty gas mileage only and forgot why people buy trucks. I always thought a 4 liter turbo gas or diesel would be a good engine (the Ford 3.5 does pretty good). Of course the new Hurricane engine might be the answer, but it will probably have reliability issues for several years.

So do I give the Ram another shot or stick with Ford? I started looking at inventory; I prefer to buy new. Ford has limited inventory and no discounts. There are hundreds of Ram 1500s available near me though, with discounts. But no Ecodiesels and only half with the Hemi. None have 3.92 gears, only one with a tow package and it was a v6, only 2 with the longer bed. Every single one had 20" wheels, which I don't care about and is worse for performance. None had the air suspension. Do dealers have no clue or are there supply chain issues or do people just not care about these options?

If you tow get the EcoDiesel while you still can.

I've got 51k miles on my 21 EcoDiesel. 21,000 miles (according the the towing indicator) have been towing either a 10,000 lb cargo trailer locally or a 6,500 lb boxy travel trailer cross country: I've towed in deserts above 100 degrees, in 40 mph headwinds on the plains, up and down the steeps of the Rockies and Appalachia. It loves the heat and the steeps. I can set the cruise control for anything up to 75 mph and it will hold the speed. On both the upgrades and downgrades and into the wind. It does so quietly and comfortably. My truck is rated to carry 1800 lbs, has a range of 450 miles while towing and +900 miles when not. It has 3.92 gears and is rated to tow up to 10,500 lbs (which I have done). What don't I like about this truck? NOTHING. Except that NYS decided to put a COVID gas tax holiday on gas but not diesel, so I am paying 30% more for fuel locally. But since a 5.7 liter would use about 30% more gas I am just annoyed.

Get the RAM 1500 ED while you still can.

 

[Doug Ram]

I disagree. Perhaps if you are towing primarily in constant stop-and-go traffic, the 3:92s would give the drive line a bit less stress but then the drive lines are built to handle the towing stresses within the published ratings.

When I had my 2013 Hemi 8 speed with 3:21s, I would pull around my flatbed trailer with my tractor/backhoe on it, around a total pull weight of 7,200 pounds. The truck pulled it without any drama whatsoever.

The 8-speed coupled with 3:21s provides a better torque pull than the 6-speed transmission with 3:92 axle ratios.

Technically you're right, the only place you see a real difference in performance at low speeds, below 20 mph. But the difference is HUGE! The lower geared axle makes it easier to move a trailer around, especially on dirt and gravel. It makes a huge difference when starting from a stop anywhere, like a mountain road or freeway entrance. And it is especially noticeable when BACKING the trailer up! I tested two 1500 Hemis without Ecotorque with my travel trailer (6500lbs) back in 2000. There is a good reason Ram/Stelantis rates the tow capacity higher with the 3.92 gears. It's that stress you mentioned.

 

[hemismith]

There is a very detailed look at gear ratios and transmission output ratios in another RAM forum you may find interesting and informative to read. The meat is in the first post of the thread. Look for a thread titled;

An Engineer's Ultimate Guide To 3.21 VS 3.92 Axle Ratio​

in the 5th GEN general discussion at 5thgenrams dot com

Thank you very much, I find that sort of stuff very interesting. I am a former engineer and always compile spreadsheets with that sort of information. The problem is it's hard to find detailed specs sometimes nowadays. I read through the post and at first was really surprised when he said the final drive ratios were the same, until I realized they weren't exactly the same but close. The only caveat to his conclusions are it assumes a specific shift rpm, and that may vary depending on several factors.

Along time ago I created a fairly extensive spreadsheet comparing the Cummins to the Hemi, where I could input things like altitude and shift rpm and graphically see the torque at the wheels at any given speed. I used published torque curves, which may or may not be reliable though and aren't always easy to find.

 

[hemismith]

Might want to put the ENGINEER's part in Fine Print.

Got pretty high opinions of lots of Engineers.
There's Locomotive Engineers, Sanitation Engineers, etc.
Then there's the Idiots that designed this junk to start with and those fools I do trust , whatsoever.

One problem is they don't seem to learn from experience, either their own or others. At my company they think a kid straight out of college can do a better job than someone with 40 years of experience.

But the bigger problem is the beancounters usually have too much input, it's not always the engineers' fault. With light-duty vehicles it's also government regulations that drive a lot of changes that have a negative overall impact. They also don't have a clue what customers really want.

 

[hemismith]

If you tow get the EcoDiesel while you still can.

I've got 51k miles on my 21 EcoDiesel. 21,000 miles (according the the towing indicator) have been towing either a 10,000 lb cargo trailer locally or a 6,500 lb boxy travel trailer cross country: I've towed in deserts above 100 degrees, in 40 mph headwinds on the plains, up and down the steeps of the Rockies and Appalachia. It loves the heat and the steeps. I can set the cruise control for anything up to 75 mph and it will hold the speed. On both the upgrades and downgrades and into the wind. It does so quietly and comfortably. My truck is rated to carry 1800 lbs, has a range of 450 miles while towing and +900 miles when not. It has 3.92 gears and is rated to tow up to 10,500 lbs (which I have done). What don't I like about this truck? NOTHING. Except that NYS decided to put a COVID gas tax holiday on gas but not diesel, so I am paying 30% more for fuel locally. But since a 5.7 liter would use about 30% more gas I am just annoyed.

Get the RAM 1500 ED while you still can.

Thanks!

 

[hemismith]

I probably should have titled this thread "Ram 1500", although I supposed it applies to the Hemi 2500 as well. But the 2500 gets pretty crappy mileage, and when I drove them back to back it just didn't drive nearly as nice as the 1500.

My dream in the old days was a turbo Hemi, just a low pressure one focused on increasing low-end torque.

 

[18CrewDually]

I probably should have titled this thread "Ram 1500", although I supposed it applies to the Hemi 2500 as well. But the 2500 gets pretty crappy mileage, and when I drove them back to back it just didn't drive nearly as nice as the 1500.

My dream in the old days was a turbo Hemi, just a low pressure one focused on increasing low-end torque.

Sounds like you just need a TRX.

 

[Ratman6161]

I had a 2004 2500 Hemi with 4.10 gears. Hated it as a tow vehicle. It was fine on the flat, but I had to downshift to 2nd on any hill (of which there are a lot of here in the west), which meant a max of 55 mph and 4500 rpm with my foot to the floor for 20+ minutes at a time. Had to use 1st gear over some of the high passes where the altitude sucked all the power out of it. Eventually I got a Cummins, but sold the trailer and the truck after a couple years. A few years later I got an F-150 Ecoboost, partly because of the turbo and also because of limited payload with the Ram, but sold that last year. Now I am looking to get another truck and trailer and considering a Ram again, but my towing concerns remain.

I plan to tow no more than 7000 lbs and would prefer a half ton. I hear the 8-speed transmission really helps; the Hemi has a a little more torque at lower rpms now too but not sure it's enough to make a difference; even the Ford 5.0 has more power and torque. I was thinking of the Ecodiesel, apparently they solved a lot of the reliability issues, but reviews say they have heat issues when towing. IMO they missed the mark with all the small diesels; they designed them for light-duty gas mileage only and forgot why people buy trucks. I always thought a 4 liter turbo gas or diesel would be a good engine (the Ford 3.5 does pretty good). Of course the new Hurricane engine might be the answer, but it will probably have reliability issues for several years.

So do I give the Ram another shot or stick with Ford? I started looking at inventory; I prefer to buy new. Ford has limited inventory and no discounts. There are hundreds of Ram 1500s available near me though, with discounts. But no Ecodiesels and only half with the Hemi. None have 3.92 gears, only one with a tow package and it was a v6, only 2 with the longer bed. Every single one had 20" wheels, which I don't care about and is worse for performance. None had the air suspension. Do dealers have no clue or are there supply chain issues or do people just not care about these options?

For towing over 7000 just say no to a half ton. With mostm of them you are going to max out your payload surprisingly far under their advertised tow ratings. On your issues on the the previous Ram, down shifting and higher RPM'S is just the way it is with any non turbo gas engine. That said I think you would find the newer 6.4L Ram 2500s with the 8 speed to be a vast improvement.

 

[jagman_xjs]

I have a 03 , 11, and a 19 Classic. All 3 Hemis. I like the 03 but the mpgs suck compared to the 11 or the 19 Classic. Hands down the Classic is my favorite BUT the other 2 do ok. If I had it to do over again. I am very happy with any of the three. BUT running empty the Classic wins because on the highway I get REALLY good mpgs and have LOTS of power. Even my other 19 Classic was GREAT until some idiot on a cell phone ran a red light and broke it for me.

 

[hemismith]

Sounds like you just need a TRX.

Haha. A few years ago I almost got an SRT-10, but they didn't have a very high tow rating.

 

[hemismith]

For towing over 7000 just say no to a half ton. With most of them you are going to max out your payload surprisingly far under their advertised tow ratings. On your issues on the the previous Ram, down shifting and higher RPM'S is just the way it is with any non turbo gas engine. That said I think you would find the newer 6.4L Ram 2500s with the 8 speed to be a vast improvement.

True, the payload is the number one reason why I got a Ford instead of a Ram last time. The Rams are a little better now though.

I'm old school and towing always meant a big-block engine with lots of low end torque; the Hemi never really seemed like a truck engine to me. The current 5.7 has a little more torque at a lower rpm, but the 6.4 is certainly better, although it doesn't have much more. But I haven't seen a curve for the 6.4, I couldn't even find the peak torque rpm.

My original trailer was really heavy, so I downsized to one well under 6000 lbs but I still had to downshift to 2nd a lot. I am still hoping to stay under 6000 lbs but wanted to allow for 7000. In general I like to stay well under the tow rating.

 

[gofishn]

..... In general I like to stay well under the tow rating.

Extremely Wise Attitude that more should practice.

Have always Thought, if new to towing, figure 50% of the trucks rating.
With miles and experience, figure 75%

When towing becomes 2nd Nature, can easily handle going 100% of rating.
Even go over, by a significant margin but, by then, you're gonna be too smart to risk it.

 

[SouthernBornRebel]

2016 Ram 1500 Sport 4x4, 8 speed, 3.92's and will pull the world if ya got a strong enough chain...js