Screw/Roots: Magna vs Edelbrock for 13+ 8sp

There are a lot of threads on this, but I didn't found a lot of important details, and also I need some some contact help in this problem.
We are starting a new project with boosted 13+ 8sp. As I written before, the experience with Pro was not good, that's why we came to roots type chargers. The offer is limited by Edelbrock and Arrington, based on Magna components.

The Edelbrock kit:
E-Force Supercharger Systems - Dodge RAM Trucks - Edelbrock, LLC.

Price 6100$ at shophemi.

The Arrington/Magna kit no direct link, the idea is 09-10 (the hardware is the same. ):
HEMI Dodge Ram 5.7L Magna Charger Supercharger - shopHEMI.com

The price is 7 150$

Sure, there are software differences - Edelbrock is coming with the tune from the box, as Magna supported by Arrington.
Wyatt said they did some 13+ 8speed trucks and there is no problem up today. Also, I repeat, the support is coming from Wyatt.

Edelbrock, he said, he doesn't know how it fits and also there is no tune support for it (from him). He also mentioned there is no injectors and some other items in Edelbrock kit. But as per official site - there are injectors and I also doubt that there is no appropriate tune support from the Edelbrock. There was a thread here with a member, who installed the kit on 13+ but 6 sp but there is no new information from him.

Which way would you recommend to go? To take in attention that the installation will be done not in USA (in Russia) and we will need normal and friendly far contact support, just in case.
Could somebody call Edelbrock and ask them some questions about tune support and kit operating on 13+ 8 sp? As there I can't see their e-mail, but the calling is a bit hard due to time difference and some possible language misunderstandings.
Another important question - what Edelbrock and Arrington think on installing the kit and combining it with Vararam and LTs+exhaust complete.

Well, any comments and help will be appreciated. Thx.

more info from Wyatt:

It would come with a diablo trinity tuner, also if you had a cold air intake or exhaust we could get a tune for those being on there also.

Any thoughts, guys?

I say go custom turbo. That's what I am doing!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

check the edelbrock kit..

I wonder why is it 70 lbs difference between the AP and Arrington kits, and nobody from the sellers can explain it. It's quite a lot...

The custom turbo will work and load the power same as centrifugal charger (Pro, for example) it's not good for stock 8 speed transmission. Already proved. Also we don't have specialists who can work good with turbo and Hemi, most of them are working with kits from the box. Otherwise, the building and tuning will last "foreva"))

The roots/screw type superchargers are the hardest on transmissions.
They deliver almost instant high torque at very low RPM and will roast a stock transmissions frictions in record time.

A Turbo builds power gradually as does a centrifugal supercharger
100% more transmission friendly, but by no means bullet proof on a Ram
But it is your best bet for keeping your transmission alive. Positive displacement blower is a trans death sentence (IMHO)

Which ever route you choose,
a custom built transmission built for boost is your only hope for a chance.

BlackRamHemi - in a theory, you are right. But if we compare some graphs (kickng off the accuracy):
Screw charger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCQQSjOuRyA
proof:


Procharger, recalculated +20% on the motor:


and this is mine (not stock, but not charged):


it seems that difference at lower rpm is not critical (anyway +104 lb/ft is not going right at 2000 RPM) but at 2000 rpms the transmission and TQC are already locked - this means it must hold all the power it is limited for. Moreover at 3500 rpms we have:
340 lb/ft, 230 HP - my modified truck
370 lb/ft, 250 HP - procharger
340 lb/ft, 225HP - screw compressor

At 5100 RPMs:
380 lb/ft, 385 HP - my modified truck
430 lb/ft, 420 HP - procharger
415 lb/ft, 410-420HP - screw compressor

I know, the accuracy of the numbers is a big question, but here we can see the tendence. I just want to say that turbo and centrifugal chargers are blowing too hard at the spinning, they load the trans at the rush higher then displacement blower. Generally the question is what is worse for ZF - a bit higher low torque or quite higher rising torque at higher rpms. As I wrote, the example of friend of mine with procharger showed the second one.

p.s. I can mistake, this is just a thoughts. And this thoughts are just about RAM truck only. And I cannot understand why the SRTs with same trans driving quite good with displacement chargers.

I also cannot understand why there is a lot of offers and kits for Durango 5.7 and JGC 5.7 equipped with the same motor and ZF as RAM does but such a little info on RAM.

I also cannot understand why there is a lot of offers and kits for Durango 5.7 and JGC 5.7 equipped with the same motor and ZF as RAM does but such a little info on RAM.

badvik said:

I wonder why is it 70 lbs difference between the AP and Arrington kits, and nobody from the sellers can explain it. It's quite a lot...

The custom turbo will work and load the power same as centrifugal charger (Pro, for example) it's not good for stock 8 speed transmission. Already proved. Also we don't have specialists who can work good with turbo and Hemi, most of them are working with kits from the box. Otherwise, the building and tuning will last "foreva"))

Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't 100% agree. Generally Trubo and Pro charged, Vortech, the slower tip in on boost is easier on the motor and trans. It doesn't give it that hard low end hit of TQ. You can also size the turbo so it spools quick. I think what's killing our trans is lack of tuning. If we could make trans shift harder and faster, it would be less stress on it while is boost. My truck is getting it's turbo soon. I hope the tuner can at least de-fuel/change timing enough before shift to help save the trans, until we get tuning and aftermarket support. Plus if you can keep foot out gas all the time. I have seen MPG go up slightly with a turbo. That's a BIG IF..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

The Durango and JGC use the car's accessory layout which is different than the truck's layout. The truck requires a longer snout on the blower compared to the car length, same reason you see a "car-length" and a "truck-length" if you look for harmonic balancer/underdrive pulley.

Now, we can finally have a comparison and crossover from the LX side of things because the truck's 8-speed transmission is the same as the one behind the car's and there are cars running both these systems with no failures and currently no need to upgrade to the 8hp90 like was originally discussed given the soft numbers released for capable input torque. The only difference between the two is the cam which is more high rpm aggressive for the cars and the final drive ratios, which are higher for the trucks.

badvik, yours is currently one truck that has seen a bad transmission but of the 3 supercharged 8-speed trucks around where I like there are 2 procharged and 1 with a maggy and none has seen any transmission issues when running 6-7psi. There was rumor of 3 bad supercharged 8-speeds at a dealership just outside of the city but since my brother works at said dealership I asked him about it and it was 1x 8-speed and it was a cracked tailshaft from a cast flaw, not roasted internals.

2014Hemi - no need to sorry, bro, we just want to find some true, right ))
All I wanted to say is that you won't have all +100 lb/ft at 2000 rpm with any of displacement charger (RAM case only). And in case you start every time like your last one - no any trans will hold it, whether it is loaded by centrifugal or displacement blowers.
p.s. absolutely agree on quick shift.

2 Charonblk07, thanks, I become a contact of RIPP dealer in Russia and made him an inquiry. There is a lot of SRT 13+ with the same trans driving with RIPP, dealer also said there is no need to upgrade it. Although, most of SRTs are running with Vortech/Magna based systems.

p.s. I just have broken my mind of all that stuff.

Interesting read on Roots vs Centrifugal here:
About Roots Type Superchargers | Vortech Superchargers



Ripp works well on my 10'
but their tune is useless, specially when you add mods
like headers, water/**** etc....

Most importantly, don't forget that a Roots/Twin Screw looks so much cleaner compared to a centrifugal system.

2 Days ago I became an authorized dealer and install facility for Edelbrock. Edelbrock actually sent out reps to verify that the shop was competent to do their installs. I'm also an authorized dealer/install shop for Magnason and Procharger. They all make great and safe kits, however their tunes are locked and some aren't satisfied with the supplied 6-8 psi of boost increase and want more.

hemidup said:

2 Days ago I became an authorized dealer and install facility for Edelbrock. Edelbrock actually sent out reps to verify that the shop was competent to do their installs. I'm also an authorized dealer/install shop for Magnason and Procharger. They all make great and safe kits, however their tunes are locked and some aren't satisfied with the supplied 6-8 psi of boost increase and want more.

Click to expand...

Then, I've got a lot of questions to you about Edelbrock ))

1. Is there any real feedbacks and examples of installing on 13+ 8 sp trucks? Any trans issues?
2. If I buy a 15380 kit (I have diablo tuner), may I receive a tune per email and load it by myself?
3. Is the tune locked or unlocked?
4. Why is it 70 lbs difference between Edelbrock and Magna?
5. What additional parts will I need to install the 15380 kit?
6. What will be the price for outside US (I'm from Russia), pls PM me and also delivery possibility (it should be mdae in two or three packages due to post exceeds).

badvik said:

Then, I've got a lot of questions to you about Edelbrock ))

1. Is there any real feedbacks and examples of installing on 13+ 8 sp trucks? Any trans issues?
2. If I buy a 15380 kit (I have diablo tuner), may I receive a tune per email and load it by myself?
3. Is the tune locked or unlocked?
4. Why is it 70 lbs difference between Edelbrock and Magna?
5. What additional parts will I need to install the 15380 kit?
6. What will be the price for outside US (I'm from Russia), pls PM me and also delivery possibility (it should be mdae in two or three packages due to post exceeds).

Click to expand...

I'll get you all the info you request as soon as I get my dealer pack from Edelbrock.

[email protected]

Thanks, I will wait for the info.

Either roots/screw blower or turbo one can blow a trans. I think I said in your other thread.

You generally can run more boost with a turbo since it's more efficient than a blower. So yeah it will gradually build boost but when at the max psi is when you can blow stuff just as easy as a supercharger.

Now I'm sure what the max psi a hemi can take but I guess if keep it same you might be safe. At the end of the day everyone knows itf want to make big power and speed you need to go turbo.

I think tuning is the major deal for you badvik, which should be no surprise if you been around dodges for a while. Makes me wish I bought a chevy truck somedays..lol

Then again I've read HP tuner now supports hemi's. Which is what I use to tune my Grand Prix.. Could blow things up for Diablo.