Advice Please - 3rd Gen vs. 4th Gen 2500 Cummins

HorsePressure · Mar 18, 2012

Hello everyone,

First post - hopefully first of many!

I drive a pickup and enclosed box trailer for work, and I have just been given approval to purchase a Ram 2500 (or 3500) with the Cummins engine to replace our lethargic F-150.

I've been trying to learn as much as I can about Rams, but I would love to get some first-hand advice from people with real-world experience.

The main thing I'm wrestling with is whether to go with a 3rd generation or 4th generation Ram.

I'll definitely be getting the Cummins - preferably the 6.7L. And I would be fine with either the 2500 or 3500.

My budget is $33,000 to $35,000. I'm finding nice examples of both generations out there in my price range with low mileage. In some cases, I have the choice of a 3rd-gen with a higher trim package (ie: Laramie) or a 4th-gen with a lower trim package. Not sure which way to go.

Any advice would be most appreciated. I certainly look forward to spending time around here in the future.

Thanks in advance!

Stangshcky12 · Mar 18, 2012

It's kind of odd your set on a 6.7, can I ask your reasoning?
The 6.7 are strong motors, after you delete them. People look at me funny when I tell them I like our my girlfriends dads deleted 09 over her 05 5.9
Other then body styling the only other difference I really know of are better tow ratings(I do believe the 2010 6.7 had 10-15 more hp but it was just a different tune to stay competitive) and the front ends seem to be a lot beefier
4th gens switch body styles from a reg, mega and quad cab to a reg, mega and crew cab
The new crew cabs have more room then the 3rd gen QC
That's really all I can think of right now

HorsePressure · Mar 18, 2012

6.7 vs 5.9 - I just assumed the extra...what...twenty-ish HP and forty-ish lbs of torque would be nice to have. What specifically do you like more about the 5.9?

And when you refer to the front end that's a lot beefier, what do you mean? Simply appearance, or is there a big difference in the suspension?

Stangshcky12 · Mar 18, 2012

The 6.7 were implemented mid-07 when the gov. Required all diesels the have a particulate emmisions system. While the 6.7 do have a higher rated performance this new emissions system robs them of alot of it. Not only does it hurt performance but fuel mileage takes a hit as well and there happens to be alot of problems involved with the maintenance of the particulate filters.
The 6.7 are not built to be daily drivers, but to be worked hard. From hte sounds of your job I think the truck would get the workout it would need to keep the filters clean.
Often times owners "delete" 6.7s by eliminating the filter system and run a tuner to make the truck think that the filter is there and in passive regeneration. While this gives the truck more power and better economy it is not exactly legal to do and being a commercial vehicle it would be risky for you to do
As for the front ends the do appear beefier but they are a better engineered more heavy duty componets

Stangshcky12 · Mar 18, 2012

The 5.9 are just easier basically
Anymore questions I'll do my best to answer

HorsePressure · Mar 18, 2012

This is great...exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. You guys are great.

For what it's worth, the truck will sit for a month or two at a time, then will drive long distances around the country for another month or two at a time. Almost exclusively highway mileage, but also urban driving in big downtowns between long trips.

I'll be towing a relatively small trailer (14") that will weigh about 4000-5000 lbs total when loaded. There might be another 500-700 lbs in the bed. I'm planning on going with the SRW due to some of the narrow downtown streets and tight maneuvering I'll have to do in cities.

ramhunter9 · Mar 18, 2012

I will always own a 5.9 CR or a 12v .. I will never own a 6.7 because of restrictions . I am old school and love the tried and true 5.9

JP03 · Mar 18, 2012

for what you need i would say go 5.9 just easier

infernoredram · Mar 19, 2012

I have a 600 series 5.9 and LOVE it!

If you plan on keeping the truck stock, I'd say 5.9 hands down. My buddy has a 2010 6.7 and used to get 15-16 mpg on the highway before he got the full delete kit, compared to my 18-20 stock (now around 23 with some mods). I will say those 4th gens are really nice.

If MPG's and a DPF clogging (a reoccurring problem my buddy had) don't bother you, I'd say 4th gen 6.7 (unless you plan on doing the deletes).

I'm with Dave on this one though. You just can't go wrong with the classic 5.9. Plus, even stock they sound like real diesel trucks :naughty:

Mopar1973Man · Mar 19, 2012

Dave is right I've invested less than $2K for the power I got right now and I produce more HP/TQ now than a brand new 6.7L can out of the box.

I hate to say it old school 5.9L (12V or 24V) is way better than the newer 5.9L or 6.7L common rails.

Common rail engines have a inherited short life because of the fuel system. Lots of common rail are burned out before 250K miles because of the injectors failing and washing out the rings and cylinder walls. Most of the time cause by a owner being too cheap in either not changing the fuel filter or using cheap/junk filters with poor rating.

But there is lots and lots of 12V and 24V truck with 25 MPG and pasted the 1 MILLION milestone... Something a newer Common Rail just can't do if there is any the numbers are very low...

infernoredram · Mar 19, 2012

Mopar1973Man said:
Dave is right I've invested less than $2K for the power I got right now and I produce more HP/TQ now than a brand new 6.7L can out of the box.

I hate to say it old school 5.9L (12V or 24V) is way better than the newer 5.9L or 6.7L common rails.

Common rail engines have a inherited short life because of the fuel system. Lots of common rail are burned out before 250K miles because of the injectors failing and washing out the rings and cylinder walls. Most of the time cause by a owner being too cheap in either not changing the fuel filter or using cheap/junk filters with poor rating.

But there is lots and lots of 12V and 24V truck with 25 MPG and pasted the 1 MILLION milestone... Something a newer Common Rail just can't do if there is any the numbers are very low...

Wouldn't just a fuel system upgrade fix that? Like a FASS or Airdog and maybe a cp3 mod

zack · Mar 21, 2012

i love my 5.9 an i pull all the time

Mopar1973Man · Mar 22, 2012

infernoredram said:
Wouldn't just a fuel system upgrade fix that? Like a FASS or Airdog and maybe a cp3 mod

No not really... The filter will help but the pump mod won't. Because of the inherit design of the Common Rail injector... Unless you can pop out the CR injectors and install a set of 24V injectors and a VP44 (or a P-pump) you'd be all good. Or just know you got to change injectors every 100K to 150K and you all good... That's if you can stomach the price...

Common Rail Injector - YouTube

Look at 1:15 in video time this is the seat that becomes damaged and now leaks fuel causing the injector to spray constantly.

24V injectors do NOT have this problem and are 100 times cheaper... A set of six RV275 injectors for about $350...

24V engine are so simple...

Injector cleaning - YouTube

Why mess with the best... When the Best don't mess!

Stangshcky12 · Mar 22, 2012

My buddy has 260k miles on a set of stock cr injectors lol

Mopar1973Man · Mar 22, 2012

Stangshcky12 said:
My buddy has 260k miles on a set of stock cr injectors lol

Maybe just fine or ???...

Hard telling on CR engines... Most of the time tell tale is the little extra crank time to start.

westtnfx4 · Mar 22, 2012

ramhunter9 said:
I will always own a 5.9 CR or a 12v .. I will never own a 6.7 because of restrictions . I am old school and love the tried and true 5.9

I agree 100% ^^^

Mopar1973Man said:
Dave is right I've invested less than $2K for the power I got right now and I produce more HP/TQ now than a brand new 6.7L can out of the box.

I hate to say it old school 5.9L (12V or 24V) is way better than the newer 5.9L or 6.7L common rails.

Common rail engines have a inherited short life because of the fuel system. Lots of common rail are burned out before 250K miles because of the injectors failing and washing out the rings and cylinder walls. Most of the time cause by a owner being too cheap in either not changing the fuel filter or using cheap/junk filters with poor rating.

But there is lots and lots of 12V and 24V truck with 25 MPG and pasted the 1 MILLION milestone... Something a newer Common Rail just can't do if there is any the numbers are very low...

Umm that's not true to blame the CR for neglect. They WILL go just as long as the older ones if cared for. You want to talk about something that won't last long then let's talk 6.7 cummins. They are very high maintence (in stock form) and this OP is not looking for that. He's looking for a reliable power house. 03 up 5.9 for the win! :birgits_tiredcoffee

Mopar1973Man · Mar 24, 2012

westtnfx4 said:
I agree 100% ^^^

Umm that's not true to blame the CR for neglect. They WILL go just as long as the older ones if cared for. You want to talk about something that won't last long then let's talk 6.7 cummins. They are very high maintence (in stock form) and this OP is not looking for that. He's looking for a reliable power house. 03 up 5.9 for the win!

Sorry my answer is kind of biased because of the amount of dead CR trucks up here I know about. Most of them are parked and sitting in a rancher field some where because of the amount of oil its puking up and won't start unless you hit it with ether.

But your right the 6.7's aren't going to last very long... EGR, DPF, re-gen, etc...

So sorry about the biased answer...

HorsePressure · Mar 26, 2012

I really appreciate all the great advice, everyone. Thanks very much.

I've found a 2006 2500 with 37,000 miles a couple of hours away from me. It once had a fifth-wheel hitch mounted in the back, so it was obviously used for towing.

Do you think this truck would likely be a better bet than a 4th-gen with 20-25k miles? I'm a bit concerned the 37k miles on it have been hard miles, but I will defer to you - the experts!

Stangshcky12 · Mar 26, 2012

Typically 37k miles of towing is easier then a 25k with a kid behind the wheel

Mopar1973Man · Mar 26, 2012

HorsePressure said:
I really appreciate all the great advice, everyone. Thanks very much.

I've found a 2006 2500 with 37,000 miles a couple of hours away from me. It once had a fifth-wheel hitch mounted in the back, so it was obviously used for towing.

Do you think this truck would likely be a better bet than a 4th-gen with 20-25k miles? I'm a bit concerned the 37k miles on it have been hard miles, but I will defer to you - the experts!

In either case the mileage is super low and neither engine is broke in yet. Break in for a Cummins engine is like 100K to 200K miles... Midlife isn't till 500K miles.

Typically 37k miles of towing is easier then a 25k with a kid behind the wheel

All depends if there was any mods done to the truck. If the truck is in stock form then most likely the truck is fine. But if there is a lot of mods injectors, larger exhaust, intake, etc... I'd be scared to buy it. THen the truck has a possiblity of being abused.

Advice Please - 3rd Gen vs. 4th Gen 2500 Cummins

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