Never Mind Lithium, We Don't Have Enough Copper For EV Production

[Yardbird]

Never Mind Lithium, We Don't Have Enough Copper For EV Production​

A study from the International Energy Forum highlights the immense material challenges facing global efforts to electrify all vehicles by 2050.

Led by researchers Dr. Lawrence Cathles from Cornell University and Dr. Adam Simon from the University of Michigan, the study suggests that meeting the copper demands required for a full transition to electric vehicles (EVs) could be far more difficult than anticipated.

Copper, a key component in EVs and renewable energy systems, is in limited supply, and ramping up its production to meet the 2050 target for net-zero emissions is deemed nearly impossible.

The study estimates that in order to electrify the entire global vehicle fleet by 2050, an additional 55% of new copper mines would need to come online, a staggering amount considering that mining copper is already behind schedule to meet demand.

Current projections already require mining at least 115% more copper than has been extracted in human history before 2018- which is far from feasible given the 23-year average timeline for new mines to go from discovery to operation.

Interestingly, the researchers propose a more realistic alternative: targeting 100% hybrid vehicle production by 2035 rather than full EVs. Hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) require far less copper-just 29 kg per vehicle compared to 60 kg for a fully electric vehicle-making them a more achievable goal without placing unrealistic pressure on the global copper supply chain.

Automakers have already caught on to the difficulties facing a full transition, with many of them walking back plans for full electrification and deciding to add more hybrid models to meet growing consumer demand. The study underscores the complexity of the green transition, stressing that realistic resource assessments must be part of future planning.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/tech...p&cvid=2e79c3ea703747318ab498652c6ace63&ei=37

 

[Ramit7]

I wholeheartedly support any movement toward hybrid production than NON-green fully electrics! Are the “Environmentalist” paying attention to the impact that all the mining of these metals has on this planet, along with the lost of life in these mines.

We were NOT prepared to, in a sense, “Cold Turkey” on fossil fuel!! We need to develop technology to WORK IN THE DIRECTION of NON-green battery power!! I believe HYDROGEN would have been a greener direction.

The production of batteries from the metal ore to the (NON)disposal of spent batteries is one BIG DIRTY ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARD

(We will pay dearly in the future for the path we have been forced into by so-called “ENVIRONMENTALIST”!!)

 

[Docwagon1776]

Capitalism tends to beat the crystal ball gawkers. Remember peak oil? Then fracking became a thing?

Disruptive technologies will make this a non-issue once the economics are right. Copper is far from the only, or even the best, conductor. It's just the cheapest and easiest *at the moment*.

See: https://dexmat.com/applications/lightweight-wiring-and-harnesses/

 

[Yardbird]

Peak oil was always a fantasy the greenies wanted us to believe, and still do. Now, the "peak oil" term has changed to other slogans.

 

[GTyankee]

Lithium is far from being a scarcity

It can be made from solid rock or premium salt brine

About 150 miles inland from San Diego, the land is useless for almost anything,
Except for Geothermal Energy & Lithium Mining

The blue that you see in the back ground is a useless body of salt water called the Salton Sea, it is almost devoid of fish

Groundbreaking Lithium Extraction Plant Launches in California

The $1.85B complex is the first to use abundant geothermal brine near the Salton Sea to produce lithium for large scale EV battery production

www.enr.com

 

[zrock]

You cannot tell the tree huggers that... THey fully believe that the materials needed for this just magically appear. No they don't use oil based veh to get the product from one place to another, the huge cost its going to be to recycle the old batteries plus the cost of replacing them, th e huge tax its putting on the power grids, etc. Its all just magic.
Just wait years down the road when the materials required skyrocket in price. People will come home to find their house stripped of all copper, their veh stripped of copper and batteries.

 

[Doug Ram]

Never Mind Lithium, We Don't Have Enough Copper For EV Production​

A study from the International Energy Forum highlights the immense material challenges facing global efforts to electrify all vehicles by 2050.

The International Energy Forum is funded by current energy producers, oil and gas rich nations and companies in the production of oil and gas. They have a clear history and bias against alternative forms of energy production and conservation. Its head quarters in Saudi Arabia for God's sake.

This is not a scientifically unbiased source of data.

Take what they say with a bushel of salt.

 

[GTyankee]

I think that you all have heard about the Los Angeles Fires..

They have started cleaning up the ruins, There are special crews cleaning up the property.

Many of those Homes & other Buildings were built with Asbestos, they have to suit up to clean that up & where will they bury that.

They are also looking for Paint & Ammunition

BUT, that is not the bad part, Other Teams are carefully going through the debris, just looking for Batteries, Batteries of every kind, but mostly LITHIUM Batteries of every size, batteries used in Phones, Flash Lights, Bicycles, Kids Vehicles, Solar Batteries, & Electric Vehicles , etc.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/epa-rushes-to-meet-trump-deadline-clear-toxic-debris-los-angeles-wildfire-zones/https://www.cbsnews.com/news/epa-rushes-to-meet-trump-deadline-clear-toxic-debris-los-angeles-wildfire-zones/

I sure hope that batteries are recyclable . ????

 

[NCRaineman]

Other Teams are carefully going through the debris, just looking for Batteries, Batteries of every kind, but mostly LITHIUM Batteries of every size, batteries used in Phones, Flash Lights, Bicycles, Kids Vehicles, Solar Batteries, & Electric Vehicles , etc.

Another part of the EV revolution nobody is thinking about. Most fire departments aren't equipped to deal with battery fires. You can't spray water on them, it takes a special foam to smother the fire out. So fire departments often let EVs burn to the ground... along with whatever is around them.

 

[tidefan1967]

I wonder if it ever gets to a point where homeowners insurance companies will say said vehicles must be parked outside a certain distance away from the house for liability reasons. I can only imagine how that will go down with a certain group of people.

 

[NCRaineman]

I wonder if it ever gets to a point where homeowners insurance companies will say said vehicles must be parked outside a certain distance away from the house for liability reasons. I can only imagine how that will go down with a certain group of people.

That is already happening in some areas... along with insurance rates spiking when they find out you have an EV.

 

[Yardbird]

State Farm, the largest auto and home insurance company in the U.S., has removed all electric vehicle (EV) chargers from its parking garages, citing concerns over fire risks. The decision, announced in late October and effective almost immediately after that, affects chargers at the company’s head office in Bloomington, Illinois; and at its hub locations across the country. State Farm does not operate in Canada.

In a message to its employees, the insurance giant said, “While we understand the impact to those who rely on EV charging, it is our top priority to ensure a safe and secure working environment for our employees. Following an Enterprise Risk Assessment and evaluations conducted by local fire departments and workplace protection in each hub and corporate headquarters, fire risks were identified in the parking garages that cannot be mitigated at this time.”


https://driving.ca/auto-news/driver-info/state-farm-insurance-ev-charger-parking-electric

 

[tidefan1967]

I guess that explains why we don’t have any EV chargers at my LNG Plant, LOL.

 

[markabby]

That is already happening in some areas... along with insurance rates spiking when they find out you have an EV.

well, mine spiked driving a ram truck hemi...no tickets or accidents for over 65 years.

but, after watching Youtube videos of how people drive these days, i can almost understand why they raised the rates

 

[NCRaineman]

well, mine spiked driving a ram truck hemi...no tickets or accidents for over 65 years.

Everybody's insurance has gone up. Side effect of inflation. The cost to repair or replace autos has essentially doubled. Insurance companies won't take the hit, they'll pass that along to customers... whether they've had any claims or not. We've also got these natural disasters all over the country. States like California and Florida are rapidly becoming uninsurable. If you buy insurance from a national carrier the losses they have taken from hurricanes, fires & etc. are factored into your policy rates.

Remember, they're for-profit businesses. State Farm had a net profit of $5.5 billion in 2019. Nationwide only made $1.3 billion last year. Guess who has been jacking up rates and dumping high risk policies like mad? Nationwide, of course.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Everybody's insurance has gone up. Side effect of inflation. The cost to repair or replace autos has essentially doubled. Insurance companies won't take the hit, they'll pass that along to customers... whether they've had any claims or not. We've also got these natural disasters all over the country. States like California and Florida are rapidly becoming uninsurable. If you buy insurance from a national carrier the losses they have taken from hurricanes, fires & etc. are factored into your policy rates.

Remember, they're for-profit businesses. State Farm had a net profit of $5.5 billion in 2019. Nationwide only made $1.3 billion last year. Guess who has been jacking up rates and dumping high risk policies like mad? Nationwide, of course.

State Farm is asking for a 22% increase in CA and I *think* they just got a 20% hike a few months back. If they don't get it, I wonder how long until they go even further in limiting their exposure there by not renewing people? They'd already pulled out of some areas, IIRC.

Going from memory here, so apologies of the numbers are a bit off but I think that's at least in the ballpark.

 

[tidefan1967]

well, mine spiked driving a ram truck hemi...no tickets or accidents for over 65 years.

but, after watching Youtube videos of how people drive these days, i can almost understand why they raised the rates

65 years, man that’s impressive! And I thought I was doing well not having had a ticket since 1993.

 

[markabby]

65 years, man that’s impressive! And I thought I was doing well not having had a ticket since 1993.

( i just haven't been caught yet..just lucky i guess)