Calling all Cummins owners that tow

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ram5.7hemi

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Hey guys I'm in the process of considering a 6.7 Cummins...

Right now I have a 2015 ram 5.7 hemi 4x4

I tow a camper that weighs about 6,500 pounds. I have 600 payload in the bed. I am just under the ratings for payload..

I do lots of highway towing miles about 25,000 miles a year...

My hemi gets 8-9 mpg at 68-73 mph

My first concern is what do others get towing with the Cummins?


Second I've heard there is emissions Maintenance on the newer diesels..? What exactly do they have that requires maintenance I know there's def but I don't know how that works? Besides def what else is there?


My concern about the hemi is how long it will last doing this kind of towing.. The rpms are higher especially going up a hill or mountain... From my understanding a diesel uses a lot lower rpm but does that make it better? Or is it equivalent to a hemi in terms of how hard it is working to pull..??

Last... How many miles are the Cummins trucks last? When does the suspension start wearing out and when does the engine start wearing out?


Third what weight of oil is required and what's the cost of oil change if you do it yourself vs a dealer..?? Is it as easy to do it yourself on a Cummins as it is a hemi?
 

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Our resident cummins expert DANNO should chime in soon and tell you anything you want to know about the 6.7 cummins even though he drives his wifes 5.7 hemi on the weekends.
 

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Is that a 1500 or 2500 truck? I assume 1500 because of the low payload, but not certain.

The Hemi engine will last a long time. The Hemi makes power at 2500-3500 rpms and is working, but not stressed. The Cummins makes power at 1500-2200 rpms and is working, but not stressed. People like to say how "effortless" a diesel is because of the low rpms, but the reality is that the turbo is spinning and creating higher boost even at those rpms. Climbing a hill, the diesel and hemi are both working, they just have different ways of doing the work. My old gas engine would downshift to 4th on the hills, occasionally 3rd and the rpms would jump up. My Cummins rarely downshifts out of 6th, but the turbo is working hard and burning lots of fuel to get the job done.

I tow a 33' 9500 lbs trailer with my Cummins. I get between 11-5 and 13 mpg towing, but usually keep the speeds at 69 or slower because of the tires on the trailer. Non towing I get 21 or 22 on the highway at 70 mph.

DEF is the only real difference that I noticed. Its a non-issue for me. Buy a 2.5 gallon box of DEF and dump it in when you need it. Towing uses more DEF, regular driving uses less. I think the rule of thumb is about 1 gallon of DEF per thousand miles driving. Like I said... non-issue.

Your oil changes require a lot more (2 or 3 times more) oil than a gasser, but you can go 15K miles or 6 months between changes. If you drive a lot every year (sounds like you do), then you will be changing oil based on mileage, not time. Oil change intervals will be twice as long as gas, but twice as expensive. Its a wash in terms of cost for someone like you. You can DIY your oil changes, but the oil filter is a pain in the neck to get out. Google it, you'll see. 3 gallons of oil and a $15 oil filter is the cost.

A Cummins will last a long time if you do basic maintenance. Many other things will wear out long before the engine. I would expect 300K miles before any major work was needed, maybe even more. A Hemi that is worked hard won't last as long.
 
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ram5.7hemi

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Is that a 1500 or 2500 truck? I assume 1500 because of the low payload, but not certain.

The Hemi engine will last a long time. The Hemi makes power at 2500-3500 rpms and is working, but not stressed. The Cummins makes power at 1500-2200 rpms and is working, but not stressed. People like to say how "effortless" a diesel is because of the low rpms, but the reality is that the turbo is spinning and creating higher boost even at those rpms. Climbing a hill, the diesel and hemi are both working, they just have different ways of doing the work. My old gas engine would downshift to 4th on the hills, occasionally 3rd and the rpms would jump up. My Cummins rarely downshifts out of 6th, but the turbo is working hard and burning lots of fuel to get the job done.

I tow a 33' 9500 lbs trailer with my Cummins. I get between 11-5 and 13 mpg towing, but usually keep the speeds at 69 or slower because of the tires on the trailer. Non towing I get 21 or 22 on the highway at 70 mph.

DEF is the only real difference that I noticed. Its a non-issue for me. Buy a 2.5 gallon box of DEF and dump it in when you need it. Towing uses more DEF, regular driving uses less. I think the rule of thumb is about 1 gallon of DEF per thousand miles driving. Like I said... non-issue.

Your oil changes require a lot more (2 or 3 times more) oil than a gasser, but you can go 15K miles or 6 months between changes. If you drive a lot every year (sounds like you do), then you will be changing oil based on mileage, not time. Oil change intervals will be twice as long as gas, but twice as expensive. Its a wash in terms of cost for someone like you. You can DIY your oil changes, but the oil filter is a pain in the neck to get out. Google it, you'll see. 3 gallons of oil and a $15 oil filter is the cost.

A Cummins will last a long time if you do basic maintenance. Many other things will wear out long before the engine. I would expect 300K miles before any major work was needed, maybe even more. A Hemi that is worked hard won't last as long.


Thanks you for the info.. My truck is indeed a 1500 truck. I didn't plan on getting a trailer hence why I went for a 1500 hemi...
 

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Our work Truck has 170000 miles on it and so far we've replaced everything on the front end at around 130000. Did all brakes/calipers/rotors, a water pump, radiator, and about to have to change the power steering gear box. Also bought multiple batteries in pairs. Nothing on the actual engine or transmission has been touched besides fluids and emissions deletes.
 
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ram5.7hemi

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Our work Truck has 170000 miles on it and so far we've replaced everything on the front end at around 130000. Did all brakes/calipers/rotors, a water pump, radiator, and about to have to change the power steering gear box. Also bought multiple batteries in pairs. Nothing on the actual engine or transmission has been touched besides fluids and emissions deletes.

Besides preventive maintenance did you have to repair or do anything anything before 130,000 miles?
 

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You don't need a a diesel for a 6500# camper and you'll lose a lot in trade going from a 2015 1500 to a 2016 CTD. That said the CTD will have better resale & net you almost twice the MPG's towing. Doing some dirty math at roughly $2.50/gal you'd spend nearly $4000 more each year on gas vs diesel towing your estimated 25K miles. If you traded in your 1500 and it cost you $20K more to buy the CTD it would take you 5 yrs to see any savings. Only you can answer whether that's cost effective for your needs.

Disclaimer: I only play a smart person in real life. These are all guesstimates not exact calculations and done while I'm exhausted and half asleep. Therefore my statements are purely fictional ramblings for entertainment purposes only and cannot be used against me for your personal gain. Any misinterpretation is solely your own dumb fault :crazy:
 

Danno

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Our resident cummins expert DANNO should chime in soon and tell you anything you want to know about the 6.7 cummins even though he drives his wifes 5.7 hemi on the weekends.

Once again going out of your way to help, give him a gold star....

OP in regards to your questions.
The longevity of todays engines isn't a concern as the engines outlast other components in both gas and diesel unless your looking at the 6.4.

Ram is known for suspension issues in the past, it's too soon to tell if the current changes have improved it.

As for maintenance your looking at Mopar oil filter $17.75, 15w40 oil due every 15k or notification of service indictor . Mopar fuel filter $80.35 dealer component at this time every 15k miles. The fuel filter along cost more than a dealer oil change on a gas engine.

DEF Fluid has a shelf life that is dependant on storage temperature. I would recommend a DEF refractometer which can get expensive. There's a TSB about the DEF Fluid and effect on emmisions.

How far do drive everyday? Take in to account regen cycles.
 
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ram5.7hemi

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Once again going out of your way to help, give him a gold star....

OP in regards to your questions.
The longevity of todays engines isn't a concern as the engines outlast other components in both gas and diesel unless your looking at the 6.4.

Ram is known for suspension issues in the past, it's too soon to tell if the current changes have improved it.

As for maintenance your looking at Mopar oil filter $17.75, 15w40 oil due every 15k or notification of service indictor . Mopar fuel filter $80.35 dealer component at this time every 15k miles. The fuel filter along cost more than a dealer oil change on a gas engine.

DEF Fluid has a shelf life that is dependant on storage temperature. I would recommend a DEF refractometer which can get expensive. There's a TSB about the DEF Fluid and effect on emmisions.

How far do drive everyday? Take in to account regen cycles.

thank you...

i did not know the fuel filter had to be replaced every oil change? do you know about what a dealer would charge for the complete oil service? oil, oil filter and the fuel filter?

with my driving i doubt id have to worry about shelf life i could probably just pick some up not too long before i need it...

as far as my miles it can vary a lot... i don't have a set address for work i go back and forth to... I live in abq New mexico usa. when i get jobs it may be anywhere from a few miles in town... or more often to arizona, texas, sometimes even colorado or further.... for example this past week my job was 340 miles away in one direction. i get a mileage rate 32 cents a mile... i also have a nightly per diem... which is why i decided to go with the trailer even dry parking it and using a generator i still get my per diem from work...


the main reason I'm looking at a diesel is before i bought my trailer i did as much research as i could to see if it would be a good long run idea and i was right about the trailer its great but i figured the hemi gets 20-21 mpg without towing that surely it would get 12mpg at least towing... but the best i get is about 8... one time i got lucky and got almost 9.5.... i think there was a tail wind helping lol...

on this last week i had about 7 dollars that was not covered by my mileage rate... not a big deal i know... my concern is when gas goes up I'm sure it will then it will be a lot worse.....


and I'm sure a 2500 would be better for suspension towing as much as i do.... if i got a new truck it would be a crew cab and 8 foot box... that is also probably better for towing because of the longer wheel base..
 

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My first concern is what do others get towing with the Cummins?

My gooseneck cattle trailer is about 6,500 lbs empty. I generally get about 12-13 mpg(hand calculated) pulling it.


Second I've heard there is emissions Maintenance on the newer diesels..? What exactly do they have that requires maintenance I know there's def but I don't know how that works?

As far as emissions maintenance, the DPF filter should be cleaned at 200k per Cummins. I would also recommend cleaning the EGR valvle at about 150K which is fairly easy to do. The DPF cleaning is about $300. I am not too sure what the cost of the EGR cleaning is, but unlike the DPF cleaning it does not require any specialized equipment and can be done yourself.

DEF is injected into the SCR(Selective Catalyst Reduction) and turns the NOx(which turns to acid in your lungs) the engine produces into harmless nitrogen and water vapor. Gasoline engines use a three way catalyst that does not require an additive to reduce NOx, but diesels cannot use a three way catalyst due to how lean they burn. You will need to refill the 5.5 gallon DEF tank every 4,000-6,000 miles depending on how you use your truck.



From my understanding a diesel uses a lot lower rpm but does that make it better?

For towing and longevity, yes. Peak pulling power/torque at lower rpm's makes it more usable at normal speeds in every gear when towing. For most gasoline engines that get their peak torque at higher rpm, you essentially cannot reach those peak numbers after second or third gear because you would have to be traveling too fast to reach the required speed to be at the rpm that the engine reaches peak torque. For example, take a 4wd Ram 2500 5.7L Hemi and a 4wd Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins and see what speeds they need to be at to utilize their peak numbers.

Ram 2500 5.7L Hemi 66RFE w/4.10 gears - 400 lb-ft @ 4,000 rpm (not 2500-3500 that was stated earlier)
1st gear: 30 mph
2nd gear: 53 mph
3rd gear: 69 mph
4th gear: 97 mph
5th gear: 119 mph
6th gear: 155 mph


Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins 68RFE w/3.42 gears - / 800 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm
1st gear: 14 mph
2nd gear: 25 mph
3rd gear: 33 mph
4th gear: 47 mph
5th gear: 57 mph
6th gear: 74 mph

As you can see, after third gear, you would have to be traveling too fast in order to utilize the high rpm peak torque of the 5.7L. In contrast, you can travel at normal speeds to utilize the low rpm torque or "pulling power" of the 6.7L Cummins. Couple that with the fact that the Cummins has double the amount of torque at that lower rpm too.

The other thing about low rpm power is engine wear. As with all moving parts, the faster an engine spins(rpm) the quicker it wears. An engine that stayed at lower rpm for most of it's life will in theory not wear as quickly as one that spends most of its life at higher rpm if all else is the same.


Or is it equivalent to a hemi in terms of how hard it is working to pull..??

No, the Cummins will not be working nearly as hard as your Hemi to make the same pull up hill. It will do it at much lower rpm. The thing about the turbo spinning and working hard is a bit off since the turbo wheels spin at different rates all the time(even at idle) and boost pressure is what is being controlled by the ECM depending on engine load. Another thing about turbos and turbocharged engines is that they are less effected by the thin air of higher altitudes like in Colorado where you travel. A naturally aspirated engine looses about 3% of its power for every 1,000 ft above elevation while a turbocharged engine looses about about 1.5% every 1,000 ft or even less than that with modern turbos.

The common misconception that most people have when they think about diesels is that they apply gasoline engine air/fuel ratio physics to diesels when they are completely different. A gasoline engine has to stay within a certain air/fuel ratio or it will damage the engine. If a turbo was adding more air, then then engine would have to add more fuel to compensate. This is why the ECM on a gasoline engine will add more fuel if it detects more or denser air in order to keep the engine from running too lean. Basically, the amount of air dictates the amount of fuel used. This is why gasoline engines have throttles.

This is not the case for diesels and is somewhat opposite which is why they don't have throttles. Diesels mostly run at an air/fuel mixture that you would consider lean in a gasoline engine. To add more power to a diesel, you just add more fuel and the engine will suck in as much air as it can(with the help of turbos) to burn the added fuel. Basically (without over complicating things too much), the amount of fuel dictates the amount of air used. So instead of the turbo's air burning lots of fuel like a gasoline engine, it would be the fuel utilizing more of the turbo's incoming air which is pushing more exhaust through the turbo creating more boost in a diesel. This is why intakes and exhaust systems not only have larger power gains in a diesel, but also makes them more efficient since there is more air available to help burn the fuel that is added.



How many miles are the Cummins trucks last?

Cummins High Mileage Club


Third what weight of oil is required and what's the cost of oil change if you do it yourself vs a dealer..?? Is it as easy to do it yourself on a Cummins as it is a hemi?

I usually have the dealer change mine every 15k miles since they usually have a special of $65 instead of $75. I don't think changing the oil myself is that much different in terms of ease compared to other vehicles I have owned, but I only did it one time myself so far and the rest with the dealer.
 
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RAM2500 357

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Your 1500 with the 5.7 is certainly adequate to do the job. I had a 2011 1500 with the 5.7 hemi and towed about 7000 lbs fine. Sure the gas mileage stinks and I wish for more power going up steep grades but she does do the job.
Ok so I upgraded to a 2016 2500 6.7 CTD, not out of necessity but it's my retirement gift to myself.
Of course it pulls that 7K effortlessly and yields about 13-14 mpg towing it.

Do you need it...NO The question is Do you want it. I did and have no regrets about paying up or anything else about it.

I say if you have the scratch pony up you'll love it. If not what you have will do a fine job.
 
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ram5.7hemi

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Your 1500 with the 5.7 is certainly adequate to do the job. I had a 2011 1500 with the 5.7 hemi and towed about 7000 lbs fine. Sure the gas mileage stinks and I wish for more power going up steep grades but she does do the job.
Ok so I upgraded to a 2016 2500 6.7 CTD, not out of necessity but it's my retirement gift to myself.
Of course it pulls that 7K effortlessly and yields about 13-14 mpg towing it.

Do you need it...NO The question is Do you want it. I did and have no regrets about paying up or anything else about it.

I say if you have the scratch pony up you'll love it. If not what you have will do a fine job.

Thank you for your input and experience. I have no concerned about the capability of the ram 1500... The mileage sucks though. Lol 12-14 mpg would make a world of difference.. It may not be right away I need to pay mine down a bit but I think my next truck will be a CTD.
 
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ram5.7hemi

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My first concern is what do others get towing with the Cummins?

My gooseneck cattle trailer is about 6,500 lbs empty. I generally get about 12-13 mpg(hand calculated) pulling it.


Second I've heard there is emissions Maintenance on the newer diesels..? What exactly do they have that requires maintenance I know there's def but I don't know how that works?

As far as emissions maintenance, the DPF filter should be cleaned at 200k per Cummins. I would also recommend cleaning the EGR valvle at about 150K which is fairly easy to do. The DPF cleaning is about $300. I am not too sure what the cost of the EGR cleaning is, but unlike the DPF cleaning it does not require any specialized equipment and can be done yourself.

DEF is injected into the SCR(Selective Catalyst Reduction) and turns the NOx(which turns to acid in your lungs) the engine produces into harmless nitrogen and water vapor. Gasoline engines use a three way catalyst that does not require an additive to reduce NOx, but diesels cannot use a three way catalyst due to how lean they burn. You will need to refill the 5.5 gallon DEF tank every 4,000-6,000 miles depending on how you use your truck.



From my understanding a diesel uses a lot lower rpm but does that make it better?

For towing and longevity, yes. Peak pulling power/torque at lower rpm's makes it more usable at normal speeds in every gear when towing. For most gasoline engines that get their peak torque at higher rpm, you essentially cannot reach those peak numbers after second or third gear because you would have to be traveling too fast to reach the required speed to be at the rpm that the engine reaches peak torque. For example, take a 4wd Ram 2500 5.7L Hemi and a 4wd Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins and see what speeds they need to be at to utilize their peak numbers.

Ram 2500 5.7L Hemi 66RFE w/4.10 gears - 400 lb-ft @ 4,000 rpm (not 2500-3500 that was stated earlier)
1st gear: 30 mph
2nd gear: 53 mph
3rd gear: 69 mph
4th gear: 97 mph
5th gear: 119 mph
6th gear: 155 mph


Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins 68RFE w/3.42 gears - / 800 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm
1st gear: 14 mph
2nd gear: 25 mph
3rd gear: 33 mph
4th gear: 47 mph
5th gear: 57 mph
6th gear: 74 mph

As you can see, after third gear, you would have to be traveling too fast in order to utilize the high rpm peak torque of the 5.7L. In contrast, you can travel at normal speeds to utilize the low rpm torque or "pulling power" of the 6.7L Cummins. Couple that with the fact that the Cummins has double the amount of torque at that lower rpm too.

The other thing about low rpm power is engine wear. As with all moving parts, the faster an engine spins(rpm) the quicker it wears. An engine that stayed at lower rpm for most of it's life will in theory not wear as quickly as one that spends most of its life at higher rpm if all else is the same.


Or is it equivalent to a hemi in terms of how hard it is working to pull..??

No, the Cummins will not be working nearly as hard as your Hemi to make the same pull up hill. It will do it at much lower rpm. The thing about the turbo spinning and working hard is a bit off since the turbo wheels spin at different rates all the time(even at idle) and boost pressure is what is being controlled by the ECM depending on engine load. Another thing about turbos and turbocharged engines is that they are less effected by the thin air of higher altitudes like in Colorado where you travel. A naturally aspirated engine looses about 3% of its power for every 1,000 ft above elevation while a turbocharged engine looses about about 1.5% every 1,000 ft or even less than that with modern turbos.

The common misconception that most people have when they think about diesels is that they apply gasoline engine air/fuel ratio physics to diesels when they are completely different. A gasoline engine has to stay within a certain air/fuel ratio or it will damage the engine. If a turbo was adding more air, then then engine would have to add more fuel to compensate. This is why the ECM on a gasoline engine will add more fuel if it detects more or denser air in order to keep the engine from running too lean. Basically, the amount of air dictates the amount of fuel used. This is why gasoline engines have throttles.

This is not the case for diesels and is somewhat opposite which is why they don't have throttles. Diesels mostly run at an air/fuel mixture that you would consider lean in a gasoline engine. To add more power to a diesel, you just add more fuel and the engine will suck in as much air as it can(with the help of turbos) to burn the added fuel. Basically (without over complicating things too much), the amount of fuel dictates the amount of air used. So instead of the turbo's air burning lots of fuel like a gasoline engine, it would be the fuel utilizing more of the turbo's incoming air which is pushing more exhaust through the turbo creating more boost in a diesel. This is why intakes and exhaust systems not only have larger power gains in a diesel, but also makes them more efficient since there is more air available to help burn the fuel that is added.



How many miles are the Cummins trucks last?

Cummins High Mileage Club


Third what weight of oil is required and what's the cost of oil change if you do it yourself vs a dealer..?? Is it as easy to do it yourself on a Cummins as it is a hemi?

I usually have the dealer change mine every 15k miles since they usually have a special of $65 instead of $75. I don't think changing the oil myself is that much different in terms of ease compared to other vehicles I have owned, but I only did it one time myself so far and the rest with the dealer.


Thanks for your info very very helpful.

Does the $75 dealer oil change include the fuel filter that's needed too? Or is it separate?

Besides def and the fuel filter what othe emissions Maintenances are required and how often.
 

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Thanks for your info very very helpful.

Does the $75 dealer oil change include the fuel filter that's needed too? Or is it separate?

Besides def and the fuel filter what othe emissions 7Maintenances are required and how often.

No, that is not fuel filters. The fuel filters I would recommend you do yourself since the dealer will over charge you. It takes me less than 15 minutes to do both filters. Maybe even less if I hurry. You can get a set of both for around $90 online.

There is really no other emissions equipment maintenance required besides the DPF and EGR. I am surprised Ram pickups doesn't have a DEF filter like all medium duty Ram diesels do. That filter, which is about $70, is required to be changed every 150K on the medium duty trucks, but the pickups don't seem to have one.
 
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ram5.7hemi

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No, that is not fuel filters. The fuel filters I would recommend you do yourself since the dealer will over charge you. It takes me less than 15 minutes to do both filters. Maybe even less if I hurry. You can get a set of both for around $90 online.

There is really no other emissions equipment maintenance required besides the DPF and EGR. I am surprised Ram pickups doesn't have a DEF filter like all medium duty Ram diesels do. That filter, which is about $70, is required to be changed every 150K on the medium duty trucks, but the pickups don't seem to have one.

i thought i read online there is some kind of maintenance required every 67k??

the def is the fluid that you put in right?

what is DPF and EGR maintenance? and whats the cost of the maintenance on them?

on the new ones do they only come with a 3.42 gearing?? for the 2500 CTD? is that going to be good for towing?


I think I'm going to go look at the cummins either tomorrow evening or tuesday... sounds like it will definitely get better mileage than my hemi towing the travel trailer?... getting more than 7-8 Mpg is important.. id like to get at least 10-12 if i can get 12-14 that would be awesome..

I'm already upside down though so it might be a while before i can pull the trigger unless i get lucky and they have a really good deal on one...
 
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ram5.7hemi

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Is there any worry about the Cummins trucks going into a limp mode or anything that would make them in reliable? I travel all over the state and to other states as well
 

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Is there any worry about the Cummins trucks going into a limp mode or anything that would make them in reliable? I travel all over the state and to other states as well

Running out of DEF or bad fuel are about the only thing you should have to worry about with the new Cummins.

Running out of DEF can be avoided, and bad fuel can happen with gas too.

Anything else that throws the truck into limp mode would be an unusual problem.

They're good trucks.
 

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Winter. Be sure to get a good additive, especially early. Oil companies treat their fuels for cold weather depending on timenof year and location. However, a good cold snap in the northern latitudes before the fuel protected well enough can cause you to gel up. A good additive will also help with water you may pick up in your fuel. Often times a diesel vehicle that wont start in the morning the owner thinks has gelled up really just had water freeze in the fuel line. Allow for warm up time and make sure it is plugged in overnight if getting into sub-freezing temps.

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As to bad fuel, use a high volume station to lower your chances. Also keep your receipt. It has their phone number in case you got bad fuel, or worse, the truck driver dumped unleaded in the diesel tank. It happens. Be sure you are filling with diesel and not absent mindedly with gas. It happens. Make sure you don't add DEF to fuel tank. The fill points are side by side under fuel door. It happens.

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6.7
DEF usage per cummins is about 2%, or 50:1. 1 gal DEF per 50 gal of fuel used. If you are towing 5000 miles at 10mpg, you will use ~10 gal of DEF. Empty getting 20mpg over those same 5000 you would use ~5g.

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