Vortec Supercharger

A lot of people criticize the times and the speeds at some tracks in Division V, until they run up there. Then they understand! A "little" altitude makes quite a difference.
Jay

GIJoe2010 said:

I used to live in Colorado Springs when I was stationed at Fort Carson (about 10 years ago) and they, RMCR, worked on my 08 Charger. They know their HEMIs, whether it's in an LX/LC, Jeep or Ram chassis.

From what I remember, they did some of the very first Vortech SCs on the 5.7s pre and post Eagle heads and were owning Bandimere. That's something to say when you've got a fast, reliable and streetable rig running low ETs at 6000 feet.

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Bandi is the hardest track in N. America to run fast at. I consider it quite an accomplishment to get a Grand Cherokee to run 10's and trap at almost 130. And it's been my daily driver the whole time. Fully loaded except for the rear seats. The roll bar was in the way. But I've more than made that weight back with the rollbar, waterbox and water/**** tank. Couldn't have done it without RMCR, HHP/BES, Vortech, and of course Johan.

RMCR was one of the early Vortech Top Tier dealers, and they're still really tight. They do altitude and cold weather testing for them. Build cars for shows, and share booths with them. When Michael told me about the V-2 Ti, it wasn't even available. After they installed it I called tech supp one day to ask a couple of questions. The tech asked "How did you get hold of a Ti, they aren't shipping yet?" I replied "RMCR". He said "Oh, ok."

Pull Ya said:

A lot of people criticize the times and the speeds at some tracks in Division V, until they run up there. Then they understand! A "little" altitude makes quite a difference.
Jay

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You're right. Many don't understand what altitude does to an engine. Thinner air means you have to cram way more in it to attain sea level numbers. An engine is really nothing more than an air pump.

There's around a 3% power loss from sea level for every 1000 ft of altitude. No matter what you do to your engine. Can't fight physics. If you're NA, forget it. Sucks for Pro Stock! You need a power adder to somewhat offset the losses. But then add the weather to the altitude and you end up with a DA in the 8-9k range. That kills even more power. Wednesday it was 9200 ft. Ouch! The way I tell the flat landers is it sucks the life out of an engine. When they criticize my times I say come on up here and run. Bandi will send you back down the mountain with your tail between your legs. Figure at least a second slower on your slips.

wink

I was in a Mopar club in the Springs, dunno if it's still around, Modern Mopar Muscle (M3) and the founder, Ed Rossman, was one of the first (he claims) to have had a V3 setup on his 08 SRT Challenger from RMCR. From what I remember, since he dumped so much cash in his MOPARs (2 Challengers, SRT&RT and later his 1500) they were one of our supporting vendors.

I never went "balls deep" with engine mods with my 08 RT Charger (in Colorado) but RMCR did a great job on my exhaust (JBA shorties to Zoomers cat back), some suspension work, and some good tuning to make me happy every time I smashed the loud pedal.

GIJoe2010 said:

I was in a Mopar club in the Springs, dunno if it's still around, Modern Mopar Muscle (M3) and the founder, Ed Rossman, was one of the first (he claims) to have had a V3 setup on his 08 SRT Challenger from RMCR. From what I remember, since he dumped so much cash in his MOPARs (2 Challengers, SRT&RT and later his 1500) they were one of our supporting vendors.

I never went "balls deep" with engine mods with my 08 RT Charger (in Colorado) but RMCR did a great job on my exhaust (JBA shorties to Zoomers cat back), some suspension work, and some good tuning to make me happy every time I smashed the loud pedal.

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I know there were several Mopar clubs in the metroplex. Not sure if they're still around. I never joined any. They were mostly LX based members, but one guy that used to come out to Bandi had a SRT4. Haven't seen him in a couple of years though. Might still be a club in the Springs, but I don't think these clubs are related, except in being Mopar related.

One of the Jeep guys told me about RMCR. They did a Vortech on his older Laredo. Probably had his around 12 years now. Never had a single issue. Then another Jeep guy that actually has a SRT8 got a V-3 on his. That pushed me to take the plunge. After 8 years of working with these guys I wouldn't let anyone else touch my stuff. Plus I've seen some of the other shops work. No thanks! They didn't do that much Mopar work when I met them. They were mostly a GM shop. But I started bringing in Jeeps and Challengers, and now they do a bunch of Mopar.

wink

Does the owner still have that insane Impala?

If I remember correctly, it had a full built boosted engine, airbags, and 6 speed manual swapped. That thing was cool, loud and fast.

GIJoe2010 said:

Does the owner still have that insane Impala?

If I remember correctly, it had a full built boosted engine, airbags, and 6 speed manual swapped. That thing was cool, loud and fast.

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If you mean Michael's dad Jeff, yes. But I don't believe he's affiliated with the company anymore, however I think he did buy the DynoJet. Really nice guy, but he's enjoying retirement now. The Impala has changed a bit since its original build. When I upgraded to my V-2 a few years ago, they put my V-3 on the Impala. Still running as strong as the day I bought it. They planned to send it in for a refresh, but after checking it out, found it didn't need it. That's one reason I like Vortech. I beat the snot out of that thing for a couple of years, and couldn't hurt it. Same as my I did with my V-2. Doubt I'll have to push the V-21 near as hard.

Here's an article on the older Impala build...

Four-Door Frenzy

wink

^^^^^ That's the one I remember.

Does Vortech even have a part # or kit for the Gen 4 1500s?

The only offerings I've found for SCs are ProCharger, Edelbrock, and Magnuson. And of those, the ProCharger is the only one that really appeals to me.

Procharger is the only centrifugal supercharger available for the 4th gen. Neither Vortech or Paxton want to touch the Dodge/Ram truck market, sale numbers are non-existent.

GIJoe2010 said:

^^^^^ That's the one I remember.

Does Vortech even have a part # or kit for the Gen 4 1500s?

The only offerings I've found for SCs are ProCharger, Edelbrock, and Magnuson. And of those, the ProCharger is the only one that really appeals to me.

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Don't know if they have a kit. They do have 5.7 Challenger kits, might work, might need alterations. Michael would probably know. That's why they refer people to RMCR for hardware they don't supply. RMCR has both a CNC plasma cutter and vertical mill. In addition to a full conventional machine shop. They can fab most things. I was talking to the owner of HHP one day. The subject of RMCR came up. He said he needed something for a customer build, can't recall exactly what. Anyways he said he called Vortech and they told him to call RMCR. Said they are the experts.

charonblk07 said:

Procharger is the only centrifugal supercharger available for the 4th gen. Neither Vortech or Paxton want to touch the Dodge/Ram truck market, sale numbers are non-existent.

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Maybe not full kits, but any centrifugal can be installed on almost any vehicle. Just requires a shop that knows what they're doing. Hardware is easy to make, and none of the other components are made by any of those companies. Vortech also doesn't make a gear drive or kit for a V-21 on a SRT8 Jeep. But it can be done. I offer my SRT as proof.

wink

With all the room on the passenger side of the engine bay once you remove the OEM intake there's a ton of room, hence the ProCharger setup. There can't be that much difference between the "snails" and plumbing set up?

wink said:

Maybe not full kits, but any centrifugal can be installed on almost any vehicle. Just requires a shop that knows what they're doing. Hardware is easy to make, and none of the other components are made by any of those companies. Vortech also doesn't make a gear drive or kit for a V-21 on a SRT8 Jeep. But it can be done. I offer my SRT as proof.

wink

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Oh, I'm fully aware you can make anything fit, I offer my F-1A cog driven Ram as proof; had to design and build it all myself because the procharger bracket sucks when you want to make real power. It's not nearly V-21 power level but it's all designed and built now to take anything up to a F-2 without needing to modify the bracket, I just need to figure out what I'm doing for a new engine before I upgrade blowers again. Awesome looking setup BTW, I'd love to go that big one day.

GIJoe2010 said:

With all the room on the passenger side of the engine bay once you remove the OEM I take there's a ton of room, hence the ProCharger setup. There can't be that much difference between the "snails" and plumbing set up?

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Mounting bolt pattern, pulley offset, angle of the body for proper oiling, weight of the head unit, belt routing, and amount of belt wrap required for traction. There's lots of things that need to be considered and that's not getting any of the 3 dimensional geometry when you start factoring in plate flex through the RPM range.

charonblk07 said:

Oh, I'm fully aware you can make anything fit, I offer my F-1A cog driven Ram as proof; had to design and build it all myself because the procharger bracket sucks when you want to make real power. It's not nearly V-21 power level but it's all designed and built now to take anything up to a F-2 without needing to modify the bracket, I just need to figure out what I'm doing for a new engine before I upgrade blowers again.

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Exactly! "One size fits all" doesn't always apply in the modding world. Even in your case you went with a custom setup rather than a kit. And I know what you mean about pushing things. The Vortech Jeep jackshaft setup wasn't intended for high power applications. Though it was bolt replaceable from V-3 to V-2. That's just mounting. I found ~16 psi with the V-2 was all the serp belt could take. And the cog belt would shred before 60 mph. Replaced the 20mm cog with a 30mm, and it's still the original cog belt. Never could hurt it. And I tried! Would've had to go with a YSi style 50mm cog setup to solve the serp issue. I doubt I'll get bored with the V-21 anytime soon, but at least I won't have to worry about belts, alignment, side load on the crank bearing, etc. anymore. And if I do get bored, I can unbolt the V-21 and bolt a V-28 right in place. But I'd have to upgrade the fuel system again. Always something right?

So how much boost you running now? Is it a 5.7? Stock, built?

wink

Thanks for ok the info there Wink. My pockets aren't very deep so it looks like ProCharger kit is where I'm at once the money comes. Again, thanks for all the info and insight.

GIJoe2010 said:

Thanks for ok the info there Wink. My pockets aren't very deep so it looks like ProCharger kit is where I'm at once the money comes. Again, thanks for all the info and insight.

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No problem bud! I definitely understand the money aspect. It's an expensive hobby. Many just want more power and to be done with it. Not live at the track and keep pumping more and more money into it. Like I always say, it depends on what you want. I think you'll be more than happy!

I don't want anyone to think I'm down on Procharger. It may seem that way. But quite the opposite. I think they make good head units, and they make power. It's just their hardware that sucks. I'd still talk to Skip at Demon Performance and see what his advice is. He's more versed in the Procharger world. Not sure if he has done any Rams though. RMCR can also make any hardware you need. Just need dimensions, or better, a test vehicle to measure.

Good luck!

wink

LOL, we totally thread-jacked the OP.

wink said:

Exactly! "One size fits all" doesn't always apply in the modding world. Even in your case you went with a custom setup rather than a kit. And I know what you mean about pushing things. The Vortech Jeep jackshaft setup wasn't intended for high power applications. Though it was bolt replaceable from V-3 to V-2. That's just mounting. I found ~16 psi with the V-21 was all the serp belt could take. And the cog belt would shred before 60 mph. Replaced the 20mm cog with a 30mm, and it's still the original cog belt. Never could hurt it. And I tried! Would've had to go with a YSi style 50mm cog setup to solve the serp issue. I doubt I'll get bored with the V-21 anytime soon, but at least I won't have to worry about belts, alignment, side load on the crank bearing, etc. anymore. And if I do get bored, I can unbolt the V-21 and bolt a V-28 right in place. But I'd have to upgrade the fuel system again. Always something right?

So how much boost you running now? Is it a 5.7? Stock, built?

wink

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A direct drive system would be the holy grail for me but there's only so much effort I'm willing to put into this project, lol. I like how you think, it's a lot like me: build it so you can expand in the future. What are you running for a fuel system in yours? I've got dual Walbro 400s with a return system, I would think you're needing a triple pump for that setup. Progressive/pressure switch activated?

I'm pushing 17psi through a 349cuin forged block and the plan is a 426 from a 6.4L or 6.2L block and be able to bring it down to a reasonable 12psi. I should be happy with that for a while but I can also swap up to a F-1X in the future, y'know, just in case. The 4L80e I'm putting in next month should hold up to that just fine.

GIJoe2010 said:

LOL, we totally thread-jacked the OP.

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Welcome to the internet, lol.

charonblk07 said:

A direct drive system would be the holy grail for me but there's only so much effort I'm willing to put into this project, lol. I like how you think, it's a lot like me: build it so you can expand in the future. What are you running for a fuel system in yours? I've got dual Walbro 400s with a return system, I would think you're needing a triple pump for that setup. Progressive/pressure switch activated?

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A CDS is definitely not without issues, but the benefits are worth it to me. But there's also the cool factor. Nobody has ever done a gear driven blower on a Jeep. Especially one that's going to remain street legal. Alston, HHP, and RMCR at first told me no way the accessories would still work. I disagreed and we worked it out. I could tell by eyeballin' it that it would work. Just the AC comp that's still being worked out. Not sure we can get enough wrap on the power steering pump. I also didn't want the bellmouth sticking through my bumper. As you can see from the pic, that was resolved too. So it's coming together...slowly...

The previous build was running a custom in basket dual Walbro 255 setup RMCR came up with, and 80# Siemens injectors, and Aeroquip rails. The new build will be a Fore hat with 3 Bosch 450s, 1500 cc injectors, return system, with regulator, rails, etc..

I'm pushing 17psi through a 349cuin forged block and the plan is a 426 from a 6.4L or 6.2L block and be able to bring it down to a reasonable 12psi. I should be happy with that for a while but I can also swap up to a F-1X in the future, y'know, just in case. The 4L80e I'm putting in next month should hold up to that just fine.

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Cool! I got 20 psi out of my V-2, but the 6 rib serp couldn't handle it. At 6k it would shred every time. So I had to back it back down to ~16. The Vortech side of things worked fine though. Since the new build was about to happen, there wasn't any point in going to a 50mm cog setup, but otherwise that would've happened. The V-2 still had plenty more in it.

I vote for the F-1X. That's a really nice blower! The quickest GenIII on the planet is running that one. Rob Goss's Drag Pack.

Rob's build

I worked with Bill at Paramount Performance on a tranny. Already had his built NAG1. Couldn't hurt it, but it's only good for ~1000 hp. I first thought 4L80E, or maybe some TH400 variant. Neither would've been plug and play though, and Bill had already tried prototyping each for his Jeep. An 8.0 second monster and quickest Jeep on the planet, so far. LOL! Anyways he didn't think either would hold up to Pigzilla's power. But he had taken his built NAG1 and made it even stronger. TH400 input shaft, customized converter, clutches, etc.. But it's gonna break too. I know that going in. Big power means things break. But Bill believes it'll hold up better to my abuse than the other two.

Bill's Jeep

Anxious to see what you do with your rig. You may do your own engine. Wish I could still work on my stuff... But if not I highly recommend a HHP/BES Hemi. Both Rob and I have the same internals, but he went for a little stroke. But nobody builds a Hemi like Tony Bischoff. He's won the Engine Masters Challenge something like 7 or 8 times now. Nobody can touch him. And I know why. My engine just keeps begging for more and more. After seeng what Rob's engine did, Bruce at HHP told me I could throw whatever I wanted at it. So I am.

Sorry for being long winded, but I'm somewhat obsessed with this stuff.

wink

sell it

Sell it, youll spend more money on making it work than if you went with a whole Supercharger, or Turbo kit.