Whipple time

What's considered " High altitude" and why would they make a special kit for it? Never heard of that before

Ratket said:

What's considered " High altitude" and why would they make a special kit for it? Never heard of that before

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Bandimere Speedway for one, but the same could be said for of most of Colorado, and a few other "Rockies" states. As altitude increases, the air density drops from the standard at sea level. Less air density means you have to pump even more air in to achieve the same boost level. So assume a particular forced induction setup that spins the impeller at 50k, and makes 8 psi. Up here, 50k would only be good for maybe 5-6 psi. You'd have to spin it faster, maybe 60k. Too many variables to be exact, but you get the idea. Anyways they may balk at extending the warranty when their unit will be spun faster.

The general rule of thumb is you lose about 3% of your sea level power for every 1000 ft of altitude. Bandimere sits at 5860 ft, so I'm down around 18%. Then you add in the weather to the altitude and you get the Density Altitude (DA). The higher the DA, the less power an engine will make, no matter what you do to it. So I typically run in 8-9k of DA at Bandi. On the coasts, you're at or near sea level and typical see DA around zero. On the east cost they even see negative DA. As you'd suspect, the engines make even more power in negative DA. The only vehicle exempt from the effects of altitude and DA is a Tesla.

Hence, I want a kit setup for high altitude. I can do it myself with a different pulley. But I'd like to get the warranty on the engine they offer. Not ready to buy a forged engine for the Ram yet. I only go crazy on my Jeep...so far.

wink

In the "old days" we found that the altitude around Denver(Tower Road) and Castle Rock(CDR) and Pueblo meant a difference of about 6-8 mph and about .06-.07 compared with most other tracks in Region V. The only track in Colo. that produced better times was Julesburg as the altitude was lower than along the front range.
Jay

Pull Ya said:

In the "old days" we found that the altitude around Denver(Tower Road) and Castle Rock(CDR) and Pueblo meant a difference of about 6-8 mph and about .06-.07 compared with most other tracks in Region V. The only track in Colo. that produced better times was Julesburg as the altitude was lower than along the front range.
Jay

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Yeah Julesburg is over 2k lower. Kansas is even lower. Bandimere is the highest in the country, and AFAIK, the highest in North America. I'm actually watching the nationals right now at Bandi from earlier today. They flashed up the DA earlier, 8952. What I typically have to endure. Last time out it was over 9k. Beginning and end of season are the best times to run quick, but still in the 6-7k range. When it goes much lower, it usually means the track temp is gonna be too cold to hook. But I look at it as a challenge. It's harder to run quick at Bandi than anywhere else.

I haven't been up here that long, so I've only heard of Tower Road from the old schoolers. Never heard of CDR, but guess it's no more as well. If Pueblo and Jules weren't such a long drive I'd like to check them out. Though I've been told the refresh in Pueblo didn't improve the track. I live right along the front range, and Bandi is like 15 minutes down the road from the house. It's my second home. LOL!

Anyways... back to Whippled Rams...

wink

I understand altitude and what it does to performance- I live at 5k feet and I can easily get over 7k-8k- What I didn't know was the term " High altitude kit" I imagine if u tell them ur circumstances they will warranty a pulley change for u- and may even be able to ship it pre set up. Used to love running my crotch rocket threw Death Valley- amazing how much more hp it made between stove pipe wells and furnace creek since essentially you are 250Ft below sea lvl- even on our last trip back from Vegas the 6.4 in my mega cab was extremely quicker and more responsive coming threw there.

Ratket said:

I understand altitude and what it does to performance- I live at 5k feet and I can easily get over 7k-8k- What I didn't know was the term " High altitude kit" I imagine if u tell them ur circumstances they will warranty a pulley change for u- and may even be able to ship it pre set up. Used to live running my crotch rocket threw Death Valley- amazing how much more hp it made between stove pipe wells and furnace creek since essentially you are 250Ft below sea lvl- even on our last trip back from Vegas the 6.4 in my mega cab was extremely quicker and more responsive coming threw there.

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I call it a kit for convenience. They'd probably call it a special order. Of course the blower is warranted, and they don't care if you do other mods. Hell it's capable of 30 psi and up to I think a 105 mm TB. I'm sure I can order one anyway I want. But the engine warranty is different, and they specify the terms. Stock, using their tune, and the supplied SCT tuner. I think that was $200 more. If they don't offer the warranty with a different pulley, I'll save the money. The actual pulley swap and tuning tweaks aren't an issue. Been there, done that, many times.

wink

Looking forward to seeing the install! Ill be going this route eventually..

wink said:

Johan tuning it....

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Who is this Johan that You speak of?

Booms said:

Who is this Johan that You speak of?

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Wasn't he the guy in that movie? "Don't Mess With The Johan"

wink

Talked to my tech. They're a Whipple dealer. He said Whipple will send it with any pulley they ask for and honor the engine warranty. BTW, he called it a "kit" as well. However they'll have to get the tune from Whipple, so no tweaking allowed to keep coverage. After discussing all the pros and cons, I'm going to order it without the tuner or engine warranty. He and I both know I won't be happy with it as shipped. Plus I'd rather tune with DS or HP anyways. And there's always the possibility I'll put a BES engine in the Ram down the road. The one in my Jeep has been bulletproof and keeps asking for more. So us high altitude guys do have options.

wink

wink said:

Talked to my tech. They're a Whipple dealer. He said Whipple will send it with any pulley they ask for and honor the engine warranty. BTW, he called it a "kit" as well. However they'll have to get the tune from Whipple, so no tweaking allowed to keep coverage. After discussing all the pros and cons, I'm going to order it without the tuner or engine warranty. He and I both know I won't be happy with it as shipped. Plus I'd rather tune with DS or HP anyways. And there's always the possibility I'll put a BES engine in the Ram down the road. The one in my Jeep has been bulletproof and keeps asking for more. So us high altitude guys do have options.

wink

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If your truck is 2017, you have to use HP anyway right now. As they're the only ones that can crack it...so far. My kit came with the HP scanner, once we send in the stock read to HP they will send me a tune for it. I'm still going to get it tuned after that but the tune they send should be fairly decent.

Tach_tech said:

If your truck is 2017, you have to use HP anyway right now. As they're the only ones that can crack it...so far. My kit came with the HP scanner, once we send in the stock read to HP they will send me a tune for it. I'm still going to get it tuned after that but the tune they send should be fairly decent.

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Actually DS or HP will work. I've had the DS unlocked PCM for a couple of months, and Johan has been tuning it. He's also done dozens of Whipples, so tuning won't be an issue. In fact I'd prefer his over anyone else's because I have years of experience with him, and he knows exactly what I want. The only thing DS hasn't figured out yet is the 8-speed, at least last time I checked. But Johan has done some other tricks to make it shift faster and harder. That initial delay when you hit it is gone. I went from .5-.6 reaction times to .09. Still room for improvement, but now it's me, not the tranny. It also leaps when it shifts, and chirps going into 2nd now. Which reminds me, I'll need new tires as those Wranglers mine came with would be useless with a blower. They aren't that great without a blower. LOL!

wink

wink said:

Actually DS or HP will work. I've had the DS unlocked PCM for a couple of months, and Johan has been tuning it. He's also done dozens of Whipples, so tuning won't be an issue. In fact I'd prefer his over anyone else's because I have years of experience with him, and he knows exactly what I want. The only thing DS hasn't figured out yet is the 8-speed, at least last time I checked. But Johan has done some other tricks to make it shift faster and harder. That initial delay when you hit it is gone. I went from .5-.6 reaction times to .09. Still room for improvement, but now it's me, not the tranny. It also leaps when it shifts, and chirps going into 2nd now. Which reminds me, I'll need new tires as those Wranglers mine came with would be useless with a blower. They aren't that great without a blower. LOL!

wink

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Interesting that you say DS is able to do it. I contacted them before and was told they do not have unlocked PCMs for 17 yet and they didn't support tuning as of yet. Guess I was lied too. ********!

Tach_tech said:

Interesting that you say DS is able to do it. I contacted them before and was told they do not have unlocked PCMs for 17 yet and they didn't support tuning as of yet. Guess I was lied too. ********!

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DS is on my **** list right now, so I don't want to defend them, but it depends on when you asked. I ordered my unlocked PCM on May 4. The week before that they didn't list 2017. But the PCM was defective. The truck would only run with a tune loaded. Also the i2 it was bundled with was a total crap design, and/or possibly defective as well. Either way I declined when they offered to send a new one. Instead I paid the $100 extra, returned the i2, and got a 2nd Trinity. No brainer for $100. Finally got fed up with their crappy support on the PCM, and called the corporate office (Powerteq). Got it resolved in one call. They sent me a new PCM and it has worked fine. That said, I plan to switch to HP down the road. My techs like them better, and Johan can tune either.

wink

Tach_tech said:

According to whipple stock is 307hp/308tq, after the whipple 478hp/458tq. With their intake hp is supposed to be close to 500.

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That will make one sporty pick up. I hope it goes well because I think it is the safest most foolproof power adder to achieve that kind of gain and still be a dependable daily driver. I want to be able to step on it once in a while but still drive it to Florida. Under normal driving conditions like a trip how does anyone feel this will affect fuel mileage?

averageguy said:

That will make one sporty pick up. I hope it goes well because I think it is the safest most foolproof power adder to achieve that kind of gain and still be a dependable daily driver. I want to be able to step on it once in a while but still drive it to Florida. Under normal driving conditions like a trip how does anyone feel this will affect fuel mileage?

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It will probably still get decent mileage but likely will be less than a stock truck, partially due to MDS Being disabled. The biggest factor will be my right foot, be hard to stay out of it.

Sub'd

Tach_tech said:

According to whipple stock is 307hp/308tq, after the whipple 478hp/458tq. With their intake hp is supposed to be close to 500.

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That's killer!! Congrats.
So, will this kit be 50 state legal? How does the stock engine and transmission hold up to the new power?

tones2SS said:

That's killer!! Congrats.
So, will this kit be 50 state legal? How does the stock engine and transmission hold up to the new power?

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Honestly I don't know if it's 50 state legal, I'd assume so, but I'm in Canada anyway.

Guess we will find out if everything else can handle it. I don't have any worries though, the 8hp70 is a pretty robust transmission, as well as the diffs. I'm not planning on taking it to the track or anything, just a fun daily driver.

My mouth is watering just looking at it. Look forward to the install and good luck!