'05 3.7L Overheated & Seized - What to do next?

[HemiLonestar]

Also, does anyone know where I get order a new oil pan that *doesn't* have paint on the inside? Or should I just take the OEM one down and get sandblasted? I'm not putting this damn thing back together with an oil pan that has a painted interior...

Is it paint or a coating? It would appear that the OEM pans come that way: https://www.ebay.com/p/84045554

 

[MayerMR]

Is it paint or a coating? It would appear that the OEM pans come that way: https://www.ebay.com/p/84045554

Hemi,

You're correct, they do come that way both from the factory and aftermarket. From what I've read and watched on YouTube over the past couple of weeks, it is something that has led to the downfall of many of these engines. The paint and/or coating can start to flake off and clog or block the oil pick up tube. Now I can't know for certain if it was just a bad batch of them or even for certain if it was only the non-oem replacements that have failed, but I certainly cannot think of any reason why a coating or paint would be applied in the interior of one of these pans. Well, other than perhaps to prevent flash rusting while sitting in piles on the shelves waiting for installation or sale. I don't know, maybe it's being over cautious to the point of silliness, but I still think I'm going to strip or have the inside of the pan sand blasted. Better safe than sorry?

Btw, dropped the bad head at City Motor Supply today. Likely about $230 to fix the already new head...Ugh. I had planned to drop the crankcase off as well, but I wasn't quite ready yet...I still want to try to hone them a little more, the issues in the bores are really more staining than anything, but I'm torn on whether I should just take it in for cleaning, magnafluxing, new freeze plugs, and a professional hone...I think my reluctance is that they are going to suggest boring them out when I'm really pretty confident that they are ok - I've run worse cylinders on old motorbikes without issue and I'm just trying to keep it within a reasonable budget. Plus, I went with a lower end rebuild kit from eBay, so it's not like I'm expecting big things from the old gal...

 

[HemiLonestar]

**** it, go all in. Get them to put in a forged 4.7HO crank, good rods and pistons. Then do this:
https://www.dodgetalk.com/threads/4-7l-ram-eaton-m112-supercharged-build-with-pics-vids.367696/ and http://www.airram.com/custompage.php?page=25
OR
https://www.boostedtech.com/superchargers/dodge-ram/2000-2007-dodge-ram-4-7-liter-v8-supercharger/
Go big or go home lol.

 

[MayerMR]

Lol, well you haven't seen the truck I'm dealing with...if the body was perfect then I'd be more inclined to put real money in it, but I'm trying to keep something in the budget for body work haha!











'TIS BUT A SCRATCH!

(but a lot of them)
(and dents too)
(it's a mess)

 

[HemiLonestar]

Should've told you to source out a 2008-13 4.7......if you're gonna bother to adapt a 4.7 to your truck may as well have gone with more power to begin with.

 

[MayerMR]

Should've told you to source out a 2008-13 4.7......if you're gonna bother to adapt a 4.7 to your truck may as well have gone with more power to begin with.

Isn't that a fair bit more involved than just an ECU and engine harness swap though? Well, and engine...

Dropped the block off today for professional cleaning, magnafluxing, and honing. I just couldn't put it back together without doing it right to save a $130-150. The cleaning, professional honing, and new freeze plugs pretty much makes it worth it anyway.

 

[Arth]

I'm curious how involved it is. The 2008+ 4.7 is a nice jump in power from the older 4.7.

 

[HemiLonestar]

Another forum I was on (before I got kicked off of it lol) someone started out wondering how the 08+ cams compared to the old HO's which then progressed to inquiries about whether the heads would work (better heads altogether). Turns out the newer heads will bolt on and the cams are comparable tot he HO's, when then just leaves you with figuring out how to fire that second coil and custom tuning.

 

[Larry Wise]

just be careful with the 4.7, I had one for years and the heads on them are horrible. They are aluminum and warp all the time.

 

[HemiLonestar]

They are aluminum

So are the hemi heads....

 

[Larry Wise]

So are the hemi heads....

I know that but the 4.7 heads are way more notorious for failing.

 

[MayerMR]

So I just received the rebuild kit that I purchased off eBay - it was the least expensive one I could find that had all the needed components. Frankly, I'm surprised the quality of the parts are as nice as they appear to be.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/04-07-Dodg...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648

Also picked up a replacement passenger door for $60 and a replacement bed from the same truck (with some damage, but nothing as severe as mine, for $150.

It's also not perfect, but better than the one that's on there - less to repair, though I'll have to repaint both sides.

 

[MayerMR]

Welp, the old 4.7L is back from the machine shop along with the rebuilt (again) head. Put the short block together this weekend:




And let me tell you all...stripping the paint from the inside of this damn oil pan was a royal pain in the ****. Not fun at all. There are still a few small bits and scraps in there that I just couldn't bring myself to care enough about after a certain point. The long and short of it is that I've removed all the big, worrisome stretches of paint that *were* starting to lift up in areas.



I also lucked out at the junkyard today. I picked up a PCM from an '04 base model truck with the 4.7L engine, a new 3rd brake light (somehow, someone cracked the one that is on there), a replacement *really nice* seat cushion/cloth cover for the driver's seat, and a really nice, matching middle flip down console with a lid that opens (my truck just has the seat/armrest console option).

 

[grpht03ram]

Looking good.

Did you happen to take any pictures of that paint that was lifting up inside the oil pan?

 

[MayerMR]

Welp, the old 4.7L is back from the machine shop along with the rebuilt (again) head. Put the short block together this weekend:




And let me tell you all...stripping the paint from the inside of this damn oil pan was a royal pain in the ****. Not fun at all. There are still a few small bits and scraps in there that I just couldn't bring myself to care enough about after a certain point. The long and short of it is that I've removed all the big, worrisome stretches of paint that *were* starting to lift up in areas.



I also lucked out at the junkyard today. I picked up a PCM from an '04 base model truck with the 4.7L engine, a new 3rd brake light (somehow, someone cracked the one that is on there), a replacement *really nice* seat cushion/cloth cover for the driver's seat, and a really nice, matching middle flip down console with a lid that opens (my truck just has the seat/armrest console option).

Man, I'm sorry, but I didn't. Not much to look at though, about a 2x3 piece was already missing and a few other spots where the paint was starting to lift, but was still present. I think once it starts to go it likely happens pretty fast. I still don't know why they thought this was a good idea...

 

[MayerMR]

Morning gents,

Been a few weeks since my last update. Made some good progress - finished the rebuild of the 4.7L, but then had a real pain of a time trying to get a wiring harness that would work properly.



Then I had to wrestle the damn thing into the truck. turns out the engine mounts for the V6 and the V8 are not interchangeable. I ended up getting the V8 mounts to work by cutting off a 1/2" on each side of the rubber mounts where the bolts slide through. It was aluminum so it wasn't too bad.

Moving on to getting it to start - that is another pain altogether:

As many of you know - but I didn't - the 2006 harness wasn't going to work because it used a PCM different communication system that the 2004-2005 Rams. So I had to try to make my 2005 V6 harness work with the V8. I did this buy downloading the FSMs from the 2004, 2005, and 2006 year models. I had a 2006 V8 harness, a 2005 V6 harness, and a 2004 PCM. Luckily the Pin-outs for the 2004 and 2005 are the same, so I just took the #7 & #8 injector and coil connecters from the 2006 harness and grafted them into the 2005 harness. Still though, when I plugged everything in, I had no joy. The lights would come on, but there was no action when I turned the key. Furthermore, the PRND21 on the gauge cluster would light up, but there is no "box" around any of the indicators showing that it's in a gear.

So then I was left in a situation where I didn't know if it was the harness that was causing the problem, or the PCM - as it was an unknown as well. So I lucked across another guy on Facebook Marketplace who was doing the 4.7L to Hemi swap, locally, and yesterday I went and picked up his 2004 harness, PCM, and gauge cluster.

My first test was to swap in the PCM to rule the other one out. No joy, same issue.

Then I tried swapping in his gauge cluster *shrug* maybe that'll work. And sure enough, it did...kind of.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e7s6qECV5BoTmAfK9

*HOWEVER* while the engine did start and run, seemingly fine, the gauges are all still completely dead. No readings on any of them. Still no box around any of the gears, even though I could shift and move forward and in reverse. I wasn't comfortable letting it run for long since I couldn't see oil pressure or engine temp.

Also, I was only able to get the engine to start after shaking the wiring harness next to the PCM. And that only worked a couple of times before it stopped working. So I'm pretty stumped. Evidently there is either an issue in my modified harness or I'm missing something else that I can't figure out.

I also can't just swap the "new" 2004 harness in either, yet, because it's got a different style C130 connector. I'd used the one from the 2006, but I already did since I buggered up the C130 from the 2005 harness trying to figure out how to release the pins. Ugh.

Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Fishstickz]

Sounds like the cluster doesn't feel like communicating with anything else. I'm not for sure on the early 3rd gens, but on the '06-'08 MYs, they aren't interchangeable. My 2006 would require a gauge cluster out of another 2006. Maybe '05s were the same?

You may just have a few wires not matched up in their connectors. Since you already had the RFE I doubt you swapped that thing out, so at this point I'd definitely check the wiring. It also sounds like you may just have some loose connections, loose ground or partially broken wiring somewhere if you're having to shake the harness to start it. I'd definitely figure that out first and then get back to the cluster thing going on

Do you have a scantool to see if you're throwing any codes?

 

[MayerMR]

Fishstickz,

I think you're right. Ole boy just ain't feelin' it for some reason, dammit. You're definitely correct about the interchangeability of the '04-05 gauges and '06-08 gauges, that's a no go. But even another step further, in the FSMs, under the "Instrument Cluster" section in troubleshooting/diagnosis it states (repeatedly) that you can't just hot-swap gauge clusters because they have the VIN encoded. It was clear to me (and I don't have them in front of me right now), but it seemed that swapping them out could cause all kinds of problems. Which, btw, I think is a stupid way to design something and was probably only done to screw the consumer, but I digress.

I kind of have a scan tool - one of those cheap wifi ones you plug in and use an app on your phone. It connects but then fails to communicate. I got tired of dealing with it, so I purchased a fairly robust, but not too expensive one on Amazon yesterday. Should be here today. Was pretty well-reviewed, as well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N66TTQG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm afraid you are right though - I'm likely going to need to pull the connectors and double check all the pinouts one more time. I'm thinking it's possible that I messed one up that is giving me all the issues.

As an aside, I also dropped off the trashed V6 at a Pick-n-Pull at lunch today and picked up another newer style C-130 connector. I'm thinking it might be worth my while to swap the new 2004 harness over to the new C-130 and drop it in the truck to see what happens. Afterall, it wasn't torn apart by me and doctored up - maybe it'll be a good test.

 

[Fishstickz]

I’d say go for it, worst it can do is the same thing it already is lol

You can send the cluster out to a few places to get the vin and mileage reprogrammed. I don’t really believe that would cause your issues but who knows? These electronics work in strange ways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MayerMR]

I’d say go for it, worst it can do is the same thing it already is lol

You can send the cluster out to a few places to get the vin and mileage reprogrammed. I don’t really believe that would cause your issues but who knows? These electronics work in strange ways


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Well, I have some good freakin' news; the new (replacement) wiring harness worked! I now have a running/driving truck with a 4.7L conversion. Really happy about that. I gotta admit though - I'm am utterly *perplexed* by what the issue really was between the two harnesses. Based on the pin-out diagrams, the *only* differences are the '05 has knock sensors and the '04 doesn't.

The new harness also corrected the issue with the gauges as well - all working and good to go.

Now the bad; which really isn't *that* bad - simply because now I am actually able to check the PCM - is that I have several DTCs and a blinking ABS light that I'm going to need to sort out.

P0068 - MAP/MAF Throttle Position Correlation

• I think this is the reason that I'm getting a high-idle, about 2,000rpm

All four o2 sensor codes:

• P0135 - Bank 1, Sensor 1
• P0141 - Bank 1, Sensor 2
• P0155 - Bank 2, Sensor 1
• P0161 - Bank 2, Sensor 2

Honestly, I could use some help on these - I've never seen all four go at once before...

Then I have:

• P0175 - System too rich Bank 2, which is probably related to the P0068 code, I'd imagine.

All that said, I'm pretty damn ecstatic to have the truck running and driving. I even got it out on the road and the did the "seating of the rings" procedure, as per the Haynes manual (for what that's worth).

*Edit* I should note that I'm still running all four of the O2 sensors that came in the truck when equipped with the 3.7L. It hadn't occurred to me that they could be different from the 3.7L & the 4.7L or even between years until I started having the issues with the '05 harness/'04 PCM. Now I'm thinking it may, will cross reference the part no's tomorrow.