Bilstein Questions-Heard and Read Too Much!

[78Staff]

FWIW I got a similar answer from my local 4 Wheel Parts - To the point that he would not do the install unless I also upgraded the UCA's and they do the alignment there. Of course an alignment is needed, but 4WP charges $175 where as my normal auto shop that I've trusted and used for 20+ years charges $89, AND guarantee's it for far longer than 4WP's 30 days, but 4WP won't do the install unless they also do the UCA's and Alignment there as well. They force the UCA's under the guise of poor RAM UCA's and dis-information based on older style spacer level kits. They also stated the truck would be "un-driveable" without the alignment as well.

As you found, turns a $400 deal into a $1000 deal pretty quick. Now I understand that 4th Gen RAM's UCA's are not the greatest, but to force the change put me off. I suspect it's due to not wanting to have liability issues down the road with their work, if they only did the 5100's and not UCA's. Or they are just plain upselling.

 

[EagleChief]

I suspect it's due to not wanting to have liability issues down the road with their work, if they only did the 5100's and not UCA's. Or they are just plain upselling.

It's both. Find another shop or mechanic and have them do it. Or, just grab a buddy that wrench and you guys can do it in a few hours. A couple of YouTube videos helps a lot! [emoji3]


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[Rader]

FWIW They force the UCA's under the guise of poor RAM UCA's and dis-information based on older style spacer level kits. They also stated the truck would be "un-driveable" without the alignment as well.

As you found, turns a $400 deal into a $1000 deal pretty quick. Now I understand that 4th Gen RAM's UCA's are not the greatest, but to force the change put me off. I suspect it's due to not wanting to have liability issues down the road with their work, if they only did the 5100's and not UCA's. Or they are just plain upselling.

TRUE! Every thread on this topic is polluted with disinformation because of the old style of spacers the bolted on top of the struts lengthening the strut to the point the ball joints could limit out and be damaged. Some mechanics lack understanding of how simple mechanisms work, so they are not mechanically inclined enough to look at how Bilsteins lift and realize the struts fully extended length is exactly the same when set at 2.8" of lift as it is when set at zero lift..... Set at 2.8 Bilsteins are about the same length as OEM struts so it is physically impossible for Bilsteins to droop far enough to harm the upper ball joints.

Same goes for the spring preload spacer lifts like RC's 2.5" lift that install IN the OEM struts. The length of the strut is unchanged so the upper ball joint is not harmed. I have that 2.5" lift on my 2015, I live on a dirt road that has horrible washboard, I have a big heavy offroad winch bumper with a Warn HS 9500 in it and the original upper UCAs / ball joints are still doing just fine.

 

[Gary2]

TRUE! Every thread on this topic is polluted with disinformation because of the old style of spacers the bolted on top of the struts lengthening the strut to the point the ball joints could limit out and be damaged. Some mechanics lack understanding of how simple mechanisms work, so they are not mechanically inclined enough to look at how Bilsteins lift and realize the struts fully extended length is exactly the same when set at 2.8" of lift as it is when set at zero lift..... Set at 2.8 Bilsteins are about the same length as OEM struts o it is physically impossible for Bilsteins to droop far enough to harm the upper ball joints.

Same goes for the spring preload spacer lifts like RC's 2.5" lift that install IN the OEM struts. The length of the strut is unchanged so the upper ball joint is not harmed. I have that 2.5" lift on my 2015, I live on a dirt road that has horrible washboard, I have a big heavy offroad winch bumper with a Warn HS 9500 in it and the original upper UCAs / ball joints are still doing just fine.

I have said that so much I quit saying it . Normally right after I post it some uninformed beginner who likes to repeat hear say will go to great lengths explaining why you need new control arms for no reason all over again . Should be a credibility rating vs how many post you have made. Some take high post numbers as something meaningful , yup meaningful BS'er to often

 

[78Staff]

It's both. Find another shop or mechanic and have them do it. Or, just grab a buddy that wrench and you guys can do it in a few hours. A couple of YouTube videos helps a lot! [emoji3]


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yeah this is what I'm considering, I've got the tools and am mechanically inclined - my only pause is getting stuck at some point either due to my stupidity or seized part or whatever and being stuck in driveway with front end torn down.

My local shop I mentioned will do it also, they just don't do this type of work normally, they are basically auto shop not 4x/offroad. I told them it's essentially a strut replacement with a few extra steps and then they said should not be an issue.

Regardless it's happening one way or another, just trying to decide whether to do rear shocks at same time or just leave them, or maybe doing the 6112 with new springs. I'm really only in it for the level, not max lift anyway - will run them at 2.1 setting. Currently running 275/60-R20's (33's) on oem rims, prob won't go above 34" ie a 285/65-R20 with the level as I do tow boat/trailer occasionally and also have 3.21's... no 35/37's for me lol.

 

[EagleChief]

You should be just fine. Just remember the placement of the washer. And, if the shop does it, make sure they know where it goes before they start. That's the one thing that throws people off. It does NOT go on top of the mount like your brain will tell you to do. [emoji6]

I had a buddy help me with mine. Took us about an hour and a half. But, my truck was only about 6 months old at the time. Mine are set at 2.1 and I really like it. They've been on for about 3 years with no issues. I left the rear stock... No need to touch them, unless you just want to.

I'm still running the stock tire size in an all-terrain tire. I was going to go up to 34's, but was in a crunch and needed tires right then. The next set I get should be a step up.


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[Gary2]

I only changed the rear shocks so the valving matched the front . Nice thing about the Bilstein rear shock is they are long enough so when experimenting with different coil spacers you don't have to undo any thing on the rear suspension to remove the spring. The Bilstein shocks have enough travel to allow the rear to droop far enough that with a cheap little coil spring compressor compressed a minimal amount, the spring will give you plenty of room to slide a spacer in and out easily and quickly

Each time I install or change the setting on the front with Bilstein I always take Synthetic Disc Brake Lubricant and coat the lock nut ( after tightening) and all of the threads on the top of the shaft before I reinstall it . Around here the brine they use on the roads will rust the shaft an threads it seems like in minutes. My 07 we could not get the nut off at 6 months old. at well over a year I can remove the nut on my 14 like I put it on yesterday . Anti-seize will eventually dry out and wont do the job that the brake lube does. I use it any place you would use anti seize. Learned that from the Jeeps where we are always changing things .

 

[78Staff]

You should be just fine. Just remember the placement of the washer. And, if the shop does it, make sure they know where it goes before they start. That's the one thing that throws people off. It does NOT go on top of the mount like your brain will tell you to do. [emoji6]

I had a buddy help me with mine. Took us about an hour and a half. But, my truck was only about 6 months old at the time. Mine are set at 2.1 and I really like it. They've been on for about 3 years with no issues. I left the rear stock... No need to touch them, unless you just want to.

I'm still running the stock tire size in an all-terrain tire. I was going to go up to 34's, but was in a crunch and needed tires right then. The next set I get should be a step up.


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Yeah to be honest I would prefer to do it myself. Need to find someone in Jax that has done it have them come over hang out for a couple hours, ply them with some beer n pizza or something .

 

[Fletch125]

I did it on my 2014 but haven't on my 2016. My one word of caution would to be prepared for the worst during install.

I live in the salt belt and the bils require you to use the stock spring seats, insulators and strut mount. The mount is held on by a large 17 or 18mm bolt on top. To remove it youd use a box end wrench and hold the hex of the strut piston. In my case it was so rusted the hex broke. I ended up spending 2 hours with a pencil grinder with the strut in a spring compressor and cutting them off. I chose the pencil grinder so as not to do damage to the spring seat. The strut components are not readily available and the bils only work with the stock struts (picked up some aftermarkets in hope of using that spring seat and mount but it wouldn't work).

The install is straight forward if all goes well. The previous owner installed spacers and I had to replace both UCAs because the ball joints popped out. It was a nightmare trying to pry the struts out with the spacers because they make the assembly 2" too tall.

With 2.5" of lift on the bils the strut is literally 1/4" taller than the stock strut assembly. That wont lead to issues like a spacer will.

I put 40k on those bils before I traded it in with no issues. The truck had front end issues caused by the spacers (mainly because the spacers wore everything at a weird angle).

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[TA462]

I was at my Chrysler dealership yesterday getting a price on this very topic. I asked about issues with the upper control arms and they assured me that it was not an issue with the kit they use which uses these Bilstein's. They were actually installing one on a new truck when I was there and showed me everything. Mine is getting done Thursday!!!!

 

[78Staff]

I was at my Chrysler dealership yesterday getting a price on this very topic. I asked about issues with the upper control arms and they assured me that it was not an issue with the kit they use which uses these Bilstein's. They were actually installing one on a new truck when I was there and showed me everything. Mine is getting done Thursday!!!!

The kit is P5155797, which is referred to as a 3' lift front and rear, with 5100's in the front, coil springs for rear and updated bump stops I believe - around $900-$1100 depending on dealer, plus 5.5 hours labor to install. Are you getting this kit, or Bilsteins on the front only?

I only ask as my local dealer will install this "Mopar" lift kit, but will not install a pair of Bilstein 5100's on the front alone, since Mopar does not offer a front only kit it seems.

 

[ThunderMug95]

yeah this is what I'm considering, I've got the tools and am mechanically inclined - my only pause is getting stuck at some point either due to my stupidity or seized part or whatever and being stuck in driveway with front end torn down.

My local shop I mentioned will do it also, they just don't do this type of work normally, they are basically auto shop not 4x/offroad. I told them it's essentially a strut replacement with a few extra steps and then they said should not be an issue.

Regardless it's happening one way or another, just trying to decide whether to do rear shocks at same time or just leave them, or maybe doing the 6112 with new springs. I'm really only in it for the level, not max lift anyway - will run them at 2.1 setting. Currently running 275/60-R20's (33's) on oem rims, prob won't go above 34" ie a 285/65-R20 with the level as I do tow boat/trailer occasionally and also have 3.21's... no 35/37's for me lol.

Yeah, happened to me. Drivers side done in less than hour....Passenger side about 3.5hrs. Almost all of that time was trying to seperate the ball joint. I pb blasted everything the night before too. Heat, hammering, praying, separator fork, stomping, deals with the devil,etc...It would not separate. Lucky I had a second vehicle available. Rented a heavy truck Pittman puller....POW! When it did separate, it was GLORIOUS...

 

[TA462]

The kit is P5155797, which is referred to as a 3' lift front and rear, with 5100's in the front, coil springs for rear and updated bump stops I believe - around $900-$1100 depending on dealer, plus 5.5 hours labor to install. Are you getting this kit, or Bilsteins on the front only?

I only ask as my local dealer will install this "Mopar" lift kit, but will not install a pair of Bilstein 5100's on the front alone, since Mopar does not offer a front only kit it seems.

I don't think that's the kit they are installing. They said it will be around 3 inches higher in the front and 1 to 1.5 in the rear. I'll post the part number when I get it done on Thursday.

 

[Gary2]

Yeah, happened to me. Drivers side done in less than hour....Passenger side about 3.5hrs. Almost all of that time was trying to seperate the ball joint. I pb blasted everything the night before too. Heat, hammering, praying, separator fork, stomping, deals with the devil,etc...It would not separate. Lucky I had a second vehicle available. Rented a heavy truck Pittman puller....POW! When it did separate, it was GLORIOUS...

I usually just smack the side of the spindle/knuckle where the upper ball joint is inserted. You can't get to gung ho with the hammer in that area as I have heard of many people cracking the spindle by doing it that way. I guess I have just been lucky seeing how many times I have removed them.

 

[ISellRams22]

i understand that everyones truck is different but i have my truck leveled 2.4 inches in the front without UCA's and i tow as yall know every week anywhere from 3k-9k pounds and i offroad very heavily a couple times a month and my ball joints are fine. just had tires off yesterday for my new brakes and Nittos and everything was great underneath still. thats with over 40k miles on my level

 

[jeffawats]

I have been back and forth on doing Bils or just using spacers if I level my truck has less than 1K miles on the odometer.

 

[ThunderMug95]

I usually just smack the side of the spindle/knuckle where the upper ball joint is inserted. You can't get to gung ho with the hammer in that area as I have heard of many people cracking the spindle by doing it that way. I guess I have just been lucky seeing how many times I have removed them.

Oh I tried the sweet spot about 149 times. No joy. Kong mustve torqued it on. Ive removed many, what gets me was that the truck had 13k mi. No corrosion/rust whatsoever.

 

[78Staff]

I don't think that's the kit they are installing. They said it will be around 3 inches higher in the front and 1 to 1.5 in the rear. I'll post the part number when I get it done on Thursday.

Ok please do - my local service rep didn't want any part of it but I don't think they realize it's same as the kits listed on mopar site - Thanks!

 

[EagleChief]

I have been back and forth on doing Bils or just using spacers if I level my truck has less than 1K miles on the odometer.

Go with the Bils. New truck will definitely be better off than with spacers. Spacers will run your suspension on the newer models. Prior to 2013, you would've been fine. 13+ and spacers are a no go.


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[Gary2]

Spacers are what will screw up your upper BJs. They make the overall length of the strut longer which is what pops the BJ . It allows the suspension to droop farther in certain situations. A stock length strut like a Bilstein not will allow that much droop.