Brake Controller

[TruckNut]

Connection?

I have a 2015 1500 and just towed my +/- 3200 pound trailer this weekend. Seems as though there is something amiss with the trailer plug and 7 pin receiver on the RAM. It's almost as if the lock tab isn't thick enough to press the trailer plug firmly into the 7 pin receiver. If I really push it (trailer plug) in, past the spring loaded lock tab, 3.5 volts setting stops trailer very well. However if I just push the trailer plug into the 7 pin receiver to where the lid lock tab just touches the trailer plug, the trailer brakes do not work nearly as well, and I have to use 4.5 volts-6 volts to get the same response. Design flaw or am I a "one off" problem?

 

[EvilGTO]

Hmmm. Well that explains it I guess. It is strange that they would limit it and the slider thing is odd too. But I guess it keeps it from locking up brakes if you push it to hard accidentally. It seems they are trying to take the driver element out of the equation. Oh well guess I will install my prodigy and call it a day.

No it doesnt.

because even at 50mph i get minimal braking from the trailer with the lever pulled to full..

I didnt come here to post this.. I came to say that I just had a Visit from TFLTRuck today to see the truck and trailer, and interview me. They are going to pass this up the chain at ram and see if they can get a response before posting the video..

so good luck to us all!

 

[BossHogg]

No it doesnt.

because even at 50mph i get minimal braking from the trailer with the lever pulled to full..

I didnt come here to post this.. I came to say that I just had a Visit from TFLTRuck today to see the truck and trailer, and interview me. They are going to pass this up the chain at ram and see if they can get a response before posting the video..

so good luck to us all!

This is great news.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the Chrysler software quality engineer whom also has a 2015 3500 and a toy hauler that he has trouble stopping. He also borrowed my trailer brake simulator. Neither of us believes the brakes work properly at speeds above 30MPH. Recall my graph I posted, it shows the brake output isn't proportional.

Keep us posted.

 

[EvilGTO]

This is great news.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the Chrysler software quality engineer whom also has a 2015 3500 and a toy hauler that he has trouble stopping. He also borrowed my trailer brake simulator. Neither of us believes the brakes work properly at speeds above 30MPH. Recall my graph I posted, it shows the brake output isn't proportional.

Keep us posted.

yup i remember, one of the reasons I contacted TFL Truck...

this is a very very frustrating issue..

 

[cptwing]

Proving to Fiat that this problem exists is not really that big of a deal I am sure they all ready know about the issue and likely knew way before you guys pointed it out. The harder issue is getting them to care about it. It seems as though the NHTSA will have to get involved. And or their be a high profile incident and FCA is hit with large fines and or judgments. Based on how they have handled previous and current safety recalls one has to wonder if FCA really gives a s**T about its customers. They are not even living up to the mandated buyback agreement they made with the NHTSA.

Hopefully TFL truck can make enough noise.

 

[15BlueStreak]

It seems the right people are getting involved. Hope a clear cut resolution is made for all parties involved.

 

[Valhakar]

Any further update?

I have a few observations. The sine BossHog posted is clearly an ABS signal with space left at the top for Active Yawn control. Does this sine change at all with Tow/Haul mode enabled/disabled? With T/H enabled the transmission takes over much of the braking and AYC uses the brakes to keep the shiny side up. This means less braking input at the corners and much of the braking from the engine/Transmission.

I will send an email to Heartland/Dutchmen engineering to look at the other side of the controller. It may be possible the brakes on the trailers are having issues with factory controllers attempting both ABS and AYC.

 

[BossHogg]

Any further update?

I have a few observations. The sine BossHog posted is clearly an ABS signal with space left at the top for Active Yawn control. Does this sine change at all with Tow/Haul mode enabled/disabled? With T/H enabled the transmission takes over much of the braking and AYC uses the brakes to keep the shiny side up. This means less braking input at the corners and much of the braking from the engine/Transmission.

I don't have any updates, at least yet.

Did you mean Active Yaw Control? If so, that is a system that uses primarily, torque transfers to wheels that have better traction. ABS can be use in conjunction. The truck doesn't have any method to test the yaw of the trailer in tow, the signal going to the trailer brakes is a simple PWM signal that is used to provide an equivalent voltage by varying the on/off times of the signal.

The truck does detect and attempt to correct trailer sway but if the trailer brakes are involved in that, it isn't documented any where I've read. If any one has information please provide.

 

[cc rider]

Couple guys are discussing this elsewhere. Here are the posts:

1) "The voltage at the brake light switch was changed from 12 volts to 9 volts in 2015.,Some after market brake controllers won't activate on 9 volts,some will ,if you buy an aftermarket controller ,ask how much voltage it takes to activate the unit. They will all activate in manual ,because its a 12 volt signal,some won't activate from the brake pedal.I don't know if this has any effect on the factory brake controller."

2) "For 2015 trucks, the voltage changed to 9 volt output, (now NOT full battery voltage anymore)
hence to work with the newer part number`d brk controller`s for 2015 & 2016.

The things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm....... ?!?!?!?!?!
Now whyz do you thunk they dit that for raggy...... HAAAAAAA"

 

[BossHogg]

Couple guys are discussing this elsewhere. Here are the posts:

1) "The voltage at the brake light switch was changed from 12 volts to 9 volts in 2015.
2) "For 2015 trucks, the voltage changed to 9 volt output, (now NOT full battery voltage anymore)
hence to work with the newer part number`d brk controller`s for 2015 & 2016.

I have not made the measurement of the brake wire voltage in to the brake controller. I can tell you the Prodigy P2 works just fine and it is able to sense when I apply braking.

Remembering back to 2013, they changed the voltage to 5 volts and reversed the state requiring an active circuit in the cable between the truck and the after market brake controller, this was again changed to standard signaling beginning with MY15. Of course, they could resist the chance to break the brake output (sarcasm).

Since the brake output is only used to tell the brake controller the brakes are being applied, voltage isn't critical. I would think 9 volts is enough voltage for most good quality aftermarket controllers to realize the brakes are being applied.

 

[Valhakar]

Well I jut took possession of my Dutchman 3970 year model 2016-b (17 with 16 on the title)
Empty brake lock at low speed - pass
Brake in a sharp turn to unload the kingpin-pass
Kingpin remains unloaded with light braking at all speeds -pass


Stock brake controller. Rees wiring that came with the kit. Set to heavy electric, 5.5 gain. I towed it across the mountains from Tucson to phoenix with no issues. Traffic was no issue. I could not be happier with the stock controller.

 

[cc rider]

Anyone else confused by this post? U have a triple axle , I think heaviest trailer anybody has mentioned here with oem brake controller only set on 5.5 and have no stopping issues? Even with hard braking? What is the Reese wiring you're talking about?

Well I jut took possession of my Dutchman 3970 year model 2016-b (17 with 16 on the title)
Empty brake lock at low speed - pass
Brake in a sharp turn to unload the kingpin-pass
Kingpin remains unloaded with light braking at all speeds -pass


Stock brake controller. Rees wiring that came with the kit. Set to heavy electric, 5.5 gain. I towed it across the mountains from Tucson to phoenix with no issues. Traffic was no issue. I could not be happier with the stock controller.

 

[Valhakar]

No stopping issues. I may be mistaken by the wiring manufacturer I will check the invoice.

I had a Reese 22.5k hitch installed and a seven pin installed in the bed. Everything a direct bolt in and no splicing. A side note my 2015 had a 2016 bed according to the tech. He had to re-order parts for it.

 

[BossHogg]

Anyone else confused by this post?

Yes, I am, by both of his posts.

 

[drittal]

Mountains from tuscon to phoenix? I-10?

Maximum grade that I found was 2%. Mostly 0-1%

 

[cc rider]

Ditto. Aftermarket wiring/7 pin connector with oem brake controller? Makes no sense. I think he has a aftermarket brake controller. I think if he had the factory IBM, he would also have the factory 7pin and wiring. That is my only explanation

Yes, I am, by both of his posts.

 

[Valhakar]

The 7 pin was installed in the bed by the same shop that installed the Reese 5th wheel hitch. It did not come from the factory with either the hitch or the 7 pin connection in the bed. It is plugged directly into the stock harness and uses the stock controller. It works well. Your 'confusion' is bordering on denial. I have a stock controller and it is working well so far with a brand new truck and a brand new RV.

As for the highway I took I-8. Not exactly huge mountains but enough grades to test light and intermediate braking. Kingpin was never loaded while braking. If I hit the brakes hard I would hear the pin load up as expected. I have no complaints with the stock controller. I can hook up the RV without the wheels being checked, they lock with the slider held. I tested at the RV lot with techs there doing the PDI for the RV.

 

[loveracing1988]

The 7 pin was installed in the bed by the same shop that installed the Reese 5th wheel hitch. It did not come from the factory with either the hitch or the 7 pin connection in the bed. It is plugged directly into the stock harness and uses the stock controller. It works well. Your 'confusion' is bordering on denial. I have a stock controller and it is working well so far with a brand new truck and a brand new RV.

As for the highway I took I-8. Not exactly huge mountains but enough grades to test light and intermediate braking. Kingpin was never loaded while braking. If I hit the brakes hard I would hear the pin load up as expected. I have no complaints with the stock controller. I can hook up the RV without the wheels being checked, they lock with the slider held. I tested at the RV lot with techs there doing the PDI for the RV.

So the score is one person with a fully functioning controller and about 10 with useless controllers.

 

[Valhakar]

It's not a score, that limits the discussion. I have a 2015 late year model, it has 2016 parts mixed in. There could be a range of trucks with the issue. Mine does not currently have the issue. So a late 2015 HD 3500 DRW with tow package, Cummins engine, and Aisin transmission does not have the issue. It is a very specific data point.

 

[drittal]

But how does it do under emergency situations?

It was never said the brakes don't work with factory brake controller, they just don't work as well as people expect coming from older models with built in controllers or others who came from an aftermarket controller.

Have you seen the data BossHogg collected comparing older style integrated vs current? Or even vs a Prodigy controller?

Boss, could he be experiencing better braking performance from having more axles, and 7k axles. Maybe smaller brakes vs yours??