Cylinder 8 Misfire Diagnosis

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Lethalweapon100

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Hi all. Im back. It seems the little sensor in the seat detected that my wallet was getting a bit too fat and it decided to thin it out for me. 1997 Ram 2500 5.9 V8.

So lets step back a few days - 4 or 5 days ago the alternator in my truck gave up the ghost. It was a 136 amp alternator, which I didn't know, so i installed a 90A one. Parts guy told me it would work and that it was base equipment. I installed it, and then the battery died. So I put in a new battery, drove around with the little 90A alt, and then upgraded to the 136A one because i wasn't satisfied with the voltage the 90A one was making. 136A kept voltage above 14V at all times just like the old one, quite an improvement.

I haven't had any problems other than that until today.

I was driving to work on the highway doing about 72 MPH, when suddenly, the engine began to produce what i thought was a knock. It sounded like a very firm POP sound, and the engine lost a lot of power. Engine was about 2250 RPM when this happened, going up a slight incline, not really on the gas but not off it either. Check engine light flashed a few times and then lit up solid. I limped to work, and did some diagnosing.

I should mention i work in a Chrysler dealership in the shop after hours doing minor projects and janitorial work, im only in highschool. I get to work, and thank god, 2 master techs im pretty good friends with were still there. One of which with lots of experience working on these trucks.

We plugged it into the code reader, and a stored multiple cylinder misfire code came up, as well as an active Cyl 8 misfire. I think the mult cyl misfire code was from when I accidentally swapped 2 plug wires after changing them 20,000 miles ago. We ran a test on the computer to show which cylinders were misfiring as it was running, cyl 4 misfired twice and cyl 8 misfired almost 200 times in a span of 30 seconds. So, misfired on every time it was supposed to normally fire.

We changed the cyl 8 plug wire to no avail, and cleaned the spark plug (parts dpt didnt have a new one). Reset the PCM and started it up, and loaded up the engine. No misfire. I thought I was golden.

About halfway home on the highway, it did it again. Power drops way off, CEL comes on. I figured it was the plug, although clean, acting up for some reason. I replaced plugs on cyl 8 and 4 just to be safe. I disconnected both terminals and touched them together to reset the PCM. Truck started fine and idled rough as if it was still misfiring. Heres where it gets kind of odd.

I put the brake to the floor and stepped on the gas to load it up (no burnouts I swear) and the truck didn't have nearly as much pull as it usually did. Usually it can almost force past the brakes. This time, not even close.

A quick run down the road revealed nothing out of the ordinary. Once I was on the main road (40 MPHish) I noticed a large power decrease. It was pinging loud and a lot, but no POP like from before. No CEL yet.

I ran the truck up a 15% grade for about 1000 yards throughout 3rd gear and 4th gear/OD. It popped a few times like it did before, but no CEL still. Def lacked a lot of power.

Back on flat road, i give it probably 3/4-full throttle from a dead stop. 1st gear pulls fine up to 4250 RPM, 2nd gear does the same, I felt almost no noticeable power lack at all. 3rd gear, the engine hits 3000 RPM, and power very suddenly drops way way down. More so than it had before. It hits 4th gear/OD, and the engine still has no power, makes the classic POP from before (and does it a lot). Finally the check engine light flashes for a solid 30 seconds before it turns solid and remains on. At this point the engine is popping like a SOB under moderate/heavy throttle, a characteristic only occuring with the CEL on, at least for this scenario.

Im not really sure what ill test first, i think ill just kind of go through everything. Probably with the fuel injector. The cap and rotor got changed with the plugs 20K ago, and like I said, the old cyl 8 plug looked horrid when i pulled it out earlier tonight.

What else should I go through?

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Lethalweapon100

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Swap 7 and 8 injectors to see if it follows. Also, have you done your plenum?
Good idea. I kind of suspected injectors, but wasn't sure because it was so intermittent. What about O rings, shouls I get new ones for the swap?

I have not. Thing burns an F ton of oil. It's a 220K truck and this incident tonight really made me think about how much $ i intend to put into this truck. Most likely will end up doing the plenum with the hughes kit come spring.

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dapepper9

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Yeah id do new o rings just to be safe. Put a tad bit of oil on em to keep from rolling em.

Fixing the plenum would be a good idea because more than likely it's a serious contributing factor. Fouling number 8 is a near surefire indication of blown plenum without looking.

On a personal level regarding the plenum: don't get hughes. My suggestion is the ebay plate, felpro gaskets from local parts store, and bolts from local dodge dealer. This way will cost you less with better quality parts and keep you from sending your hard earned money to a liar and a cheat. I can go more into detail on that if you're interested
 

bassslayer25

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Yeah id do new o rings just to be safe. Put a tad bit of oil on em to keep from rolling em.

Fixing the plenum would be a good idea because more than likely it's a serious contributing factor. Fouling number 8 is a near surefire indication of blown plenum without looking.

On a personal level regarding the plenum: don't get hughes. My suggestion is the ebay plate, felpro gaskets from local parts store, and bolts from local dodge dealer. This way will cost you less with better quality parts and keep you from sending your hard earned money to a liar and a cheat. I can go more into detail on that if you're interested

I am. Whys he a liar and a cheat? Neve heard anything about it until now.
 
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Lethalweapon100

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Yeah id do new o rings just to be safe. Put a tad bit of oil on em to keep from rolling em.

Fixing the plenum would be a good idea because more than likely it's a serious contributing factor. Fouling number 8 is a near surefire indication of blown plenum without looking.

On a personal level regarding the plenum: don't get hughes. My suggestion is the ebay plate, felpro gaskets from local parts store, and bolts from local dodge dealer. This way will cost you less with better quality parts and keep you from sending your hard earned money to a liar and a cheat. I can go more into detail on that if you're interested
Interesting. Maybe if the price is right.
I am. Whys he a liar and a cheat? Neve heard anything about it until now.
Me neither, I've heard nothing but good things.

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Lethalweapon100

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So I drove the truck approx 10 miles to school today, i touched the two battery cables together this morning to see if I could just reset the PCM and see how far I could get before it gave me more problems. Well, that yielded no results. CEL remained on, however, truck did not feel like it had a misfire at all. It idled only a tiiiiny bit rougher than usual (usually idles very smooth).

I made sure OD was turned off, that seemed to be the common factor. It shifting into OD and me getting on the throttle seemed to reproduce the problem, but i didnt find out this morning.

CEL remained on the whole time, however, truck did not run like it had a misfire once. No popping or pinging at all. Even pulled pretty well up a few hills, but with no OD.

Today is my first day of xmas break and im leaving early today anyway, so ill dive in and start poking and prodding crap with my multimeter when i get home today. Not like i have to be anywhere.

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dodge dude94

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Mr. Hughes has a bad rap of selling bad cam shafts, overpricing his stuff and giving bad info.
 

bassslayer25

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His **** is overpriced. lol
He wants near 100 bucks just for the plate, I bought a plate that's just as good for 50 on ebay

Yes it is lol Did you get a chance to look at the parts I linked for the plenum repair in the general section? Is that mostly everything I need?
 

dapepper9

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Bad cams, reground cams, his "Big Gulp" throttle body isn't even a 52mm, bottom of the bore is stock he just ports and polishes above the blades, yet he claims it flows the same air as an F&B 58mm. His airgap is sub par compared to the m1 AND he changes you out the ass for something you have to modify to install. The tuning he sells is through PIE which is a company which is worse than hemifever and we'll known for blowing motors and burning pcms.
 

Merc225hp

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**** with the injectors all you want, good chance it won't help. Comp test jug 8 dry and wet see what it tells you.

So get ready for a rebuild of some flavor.
 
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Lethalweapon100

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Nice and off topic lol. Looks like im not going with hughes parts then.

Anyway, the problem no longer lies in cylinder 8, but instead, cylinder 1. Thats as of this afternoon, that was the only code on there. The CEL stayed on all day, however, not once did it feel like it was misfiring. Not once.

I cleared the code and ran down the highway, it was kind of low on power. Not by much. It did pop a few times under heavy throttle in OD, but it wasnt enough to set the CEL back off. It didnt pop once in the 50ish miles i drove it today.

Im thinking perhaps the cam or crank position sensor or the coil? Maybe the cap or rotor is burned up too. Im going to test stuff soon per the service manual.

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