Lifters Discontinued

[Shepherdguy]

Well, it appears my 2010 Ram 1500 with a 5.7 Hemi may have developed the dreaded Hemi lifter/cam wear issue. Not so much from a loud tick but I developed a misfire in the #5 cylinder, mostly under load. I have ruled out the spark plugs, injector, and coil. I also tested for control signals on a scope to the injector and to the coil and get uninterrupted signals to both the injector and the coil. The exception to that is when I misfire severely, the CEL flashes and I notice the injector then shuts off, but it's just the PCM responding to the misfire (I believe). So plugs, coil, injector, wiring, and PCM seem to all be ruled out leaving only mechanical. I performed a compression test on the #5 cylinder and got 200psi. That's a bit higher than I expected so tested the #3 compression and got 210psi, both with 5 cranks and both repeatable through several checks. There are no issues with the number 3 cylinder and the #5 is within 5%, so I think I can safely say it's not top end. I was going to perform a leak down test on #5 by why - 200psi is excellent compression and no way that I can be getting a misfire with compression that high (or as far as air bypass is concern). Which leaves me with the bottom end and the all too familiar wear on the camshaft cause by either a camshaft hardness issue or failed needle bearings in the lifters depending on who's opinion you listen to. The cause is not my concern at the moment - the fix is. As far as I know, there is no way I can test for the bottom end failure aside of tearing into the engine and if I have to do that, I'm going to replace the lifters as the engine does have 188000 miles on it. My expectation is I will find a damaged lobe on the camshaft so I want to have all the parts I need here to do the repair before I tear it apart. In trying to find the Mopar parts I need for the job, I am finding that I can get the rear lifters but the front lifters have apparently been discontinued and I am not finding a replacement part number. It shows the rear lifter sets as 5038786AD, which they have and the front as 53021726BC, which is discontinued with no information on a replacement. RockAuto shows my truck uses the 5038786AD for the rear and a 5038785AD for the front. But when I bring this lifter set up at a Mopar store, it tells me it is not compatible for my truck. All Mopar store sites that I tried give me the same information but they all seem to reference the exact same parts list. Any thoughts on this? Is it possible that the Mopar parts list is incorrect or not updated and all Mopar parts stores are pointing to the same outdated parts list? Or did Dodge decide to wash their hands of this problem and discontinue a suspected defective part without coming up with an alernative. Anyone know what's going on or where I can get the lifters I need for the repair.

 

[ramffml]

I'm far from an expert but this is the first I hear that there are different lifters in the same engine, other than the two expected variants for "mds" and "not mds".

@Wild one ?

 

[NCRaineman]

Manufacturers are required by law to produce repair parts for numerous years after an engine goes out of production. Try calling your dealer parts department with your VIN and seeing what they show.

 

[Shepherdguy]

@ramffml Well I know that for MDS it has the yoke with two MDS lifters with the holes and two without, and Mopar sells a set of these yoked lifters as the front set, and a yoked set as the rear set. The rear set they have in stock - runs about $220. The front set shows a yoke with four lifters but is listed as discontinued. I will likely have to talk to my local dealership as one member mentioned. I’ll still see if anyone else has already gone through this. Thanks!

 

[jws123]

I just did a 2010 had no issues getting lifters but I didnt use MOPAR went after market 2010-19 should be the same lifters as far as I know.

 

[jws123]

@ramffml Well I know that for MDS has the yoke with two MDS lifters with the holes and two without, and Mopar sells a set of these yokes lifters as the front front set, and a yoked set as the rear set. The rear set they have in stock - runs about $220. The front set shows a yoke with four lifters but is listed as discontinued. I will likely have to talk to my local dealership as one member mentioned. I’ll still see if anyone else has already gone through this. Thanks!

The lifters are the same for front and back its just the placement Just make sure to put them in correct spots. The only reason its 2 diff part numbers is because the plastic piece that locks the lifters in is different you can re use your old ones I have Many times.

 

[Burla]

I'd get the post 2016 lifters with the larger needle bearings, they will backfit a 2010. If you get a 2010 lifter set you might get those thinner needles.

 

[Shepherdguy]

@Burla Interesting. I hadn’t know the needle bearings were increased in size. If they fit with no modifications, why not! I was also planning on putting a hellcat oil pump in rather than the stock oil pump.

 

[Shepherdguy]

@Burla Okay, found something interesting. I went to an on-line Mopar parts store and put in my vehicle as if I had a 2016 Ram 5.7 Hemi and looked for lifters (1st screenshot). They showed both the rear and front as the exact same numbers I posted in my original post for what RockAuto gave me. The front lifters (5038785) show as compatible. However, when I changed the vehicle to a 2010 Ram, it showed they were not compatible. BUT, I noticed the message below it that showed they were compatible with the listed yokes. I would end up just reusing the yokes I have but they do sell them. Why couldn't they just put a set of 5038785 lifters into the 53021727AC Yokes and make it easier on everyone? I even wrote to their service department asking what replacement lifters were compatible with my vehicle and they responded back that they could NOT confirm the correct part for my vehicle and stated I should check with my local Dodge dealership. SO even they the Mopar parts stores don't seem to know about this.

 

[KC Cryptkeeper]

Well, it appears my 2010 Ram 1500 with a 5.7 Hemi may have developed the dreaded Hemi lifter/cam wear issue. Not so much from a loud tick but I developed a misfire in the #5 cylinder, mostly under load. I have ruled out the spark plugs, injector, and coil. I also tested for control signals on a scope to the injector and to the coil and get uninterrupted signals to both the injector and the coil. The exception to that is when I misfire severely, the CEL flashes and I notice the injector then shuts off, but it's just the PCM responding to the misfire (I believe). So plugs, coil, injector, wiring, and PCM seem to all be ruled out leaving only mechanical. I performed a compression test on the #5 cylinder and got 200psi. That's a bit higher than I expected so tested the #3 compression and got 210psi, both with 5 cranks and both repeatable through several checks. There are no issues with the number 3 cylinder and the #5 is within 5%, so I think I can safely say it's not top end. I was going to perform a leak down test on #5 by why - 200psi is excellent compression and no way that I can be getting a misfire with compression that high (or as far as air bypass is concern). Which leaves me with the bottom end and the all too familiar wear on the camshaft cause by either a camshaft hardness issue or failed needle bearings in the lifters depending on who's opinion you listen to. The cause is not my concern at the moment - the fix is. As far as I know, there is no way I can test for the bottom end failure aside of tearing into the engine and if I have to do that, I'm going to replace the lifters as the engine does have 188000 miles on it. My expectation is I will find a damaged lobe on the camshaft so I want to have all the parts I need here to do the repair before I tear it apart. In trying to find the Mopar parts I need for the job, I am finding that I can get the rear lifters but the front lifters have apparently been discontinued and I am not finding a replacement part number. It shows the rear lifter sets as 5038786AD, which they have and the front as 53021726BC, which is discontinued with no information on a replacement. RockAuto shows my truck uses the 5038786AD for the rear and a 5038785AD for the front. But when I bring this lifter set up at a Mopar store, it tells me it is not compatible for my truck. All Mopar store sites that I tried give me the same information but they all seem to reference the exact same parts list. Any thoughts on this? Is it possible that the Mopar parts list is incorrect or not updated and all Mopar parts stores are pointing to the same outdated parts list? Or did Dodge decide to wash their hands of this problem and discontinue a suspected defective part without coming up with an alernative. Anyone know what's going on or where I can get the lifters I need for the repair.

I don't know if they will work but I have a set brand new in boxes of 2007 non MDS lifters I would like to get rid of at a cheap price. I had a 2007 bought the lfters and the truck was stolen 3 weeks later. Let me know if you are interested let's make sure they will work in your motor before making a deal. Anyone else have an idea ? I will get the part numbers tonight after work. They are OEM I bought through Summit.

 

[pinkertonfloyd]

Well, it appears my 2010 Ram 1500 with a 5.7 Hemi may have developed the dreaded Hemi lifter/cam wear issue. Not so much from a loud tick but I developed a misfire in the #5 cylinder, mostly under load. I have ruled out the spark plugs, injector, and coil. I also tested for control signals on a scope to the injector and to the coil and get uninterrupted signals to both the injector and the coil. The exception to that is when I misfire severely, the CEL flashes and I notice the injector then shuts off, but it's just the PCM responding to the misfire (I believe). So plugs, coil, injector, wiring, and PCM seem to all be ruled out leaving only mechanical. I performed a compression test on the #5 cylinder and got 200psi. That's a bit higher than I expected so tested the #3 compression and got 210psi, both with 5 cranks and both repeatable through several checks. There are no issues with the number 3 cylinder and the #5 is within 5%, so I think I can safely say it's not top end. I was going to perform a leak down test on #5 by why - 200psi is excellent compression and no way that I can be getting a misfire with compression that high (or as far as air bypass is concern). Which leaves me with the bottom end and the all too familiar wear on the camshaft cause by either a camshaft hardness issue or failed needle bearings in the lifters depending on who's opinion you listen to. The cause is not my concern at the moment - the fix is. As far as I know, there is no way I can test for the bottom end failure aside of tearing into the engine and if I have to do that, I'm going to replace the lifters as the engine does have 188000 miles on it. My expectation is I will find a damaged lobe on the camshaft so I want to have all the parts I need here to do the repair before I tear it apart. In trying to find the Mopar parts I need for the job, I am finding that I can get the rear lifters but the front lifters have apparently been discontinued and I am not finding a replacement part number. It shows the rear lifter sets as 5038786AD, which they have and the front as 53021726BC, which is discontinued with no information on a replacement. RockAuto shows my truck uses the 5038786AD for the rear and a 5038785AD for the front. But when I bring this lifter set up at a Mopar store, it tells me it is not compatible for my truck. All Mopar store sites that I tried give me the same information but they all seem to reference the exact same parts list. Any thoughts on this? Is it possible that the Mopar parts list is incorrect or not updated and all Mopar parts stores are pointing to the same outdated parts list? Or did Dodge decide to wash their hands of this problem and discontinue a suspected defective part without coming up with an alernative. Anyone know what's going on or where I can get the lifters I need for the repair.

Be careful with RockAuto, I can tell you from experience, that their catalog is not the best on compatibility and crossing part numbers. I've had a few times where their system said it was the correct part, and it wasn't (and their return policy's stinks, you lose shipping costs even when they screw up). Rock Auto is pretty much 100% computer based, no human to "catch" the errors they have, until it's reported, and even then they don't do much with it.

Call the local dealership and get the part# from them and then use that to search on.

Also, Most of the "performance" shops carry the OEM and upgraded lifters. (Summit, Jeg's, etc).

 

[Dusty]

I'd get the post 2016 lifters with the larger needle bearings, they will backfit a 2010. If you get a 2010 lifter set you might get those thinner needles.

When they cut-in the larger needle bearings it made the original ones obsolete. The lifters with the smaller needle bearings are no longer available from Ram.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 101658 miles.

 

[ThunderMug95]

Try Moe’s Performance or MMX.
Moe’s you can get a kit that covers all parts, bolts & gaskets.
MMX also sells kits, but theyre not as complete.

 

[Burla]

Moes sells lifters?

 

[Shepherdguy]

Thank you but I will not be doing an MDS Delete so I still need both the Non-MDS and MDS lifters. I am also unsure of how to verify whether the lifters would even work in my engine. Believe it or not, I am getting no help from neither a MOPAR Online parts store nor the local Dodge Dealership. They both tell me that "according to their data" I need 5038786AD for rear (which they both have in stock), and 53021726BC for the front (which neither of them have). MOPAR Online tells me that part is discontinued, while the local dealership simply tells me it is on backorder with no idea when they might possibly get them in. Beginning in 2016 the 5.7 Hemi's began using part number 5038785AD for the front, but they both tell me that it is not compatible with the 2010 Hemi, yet neither one can provide any information about "why" it's not compatible. I placed an order for two sets of the 5038786ADs and two sets of the 5038785ADs, along with all the gaskets sets I will need, new water pump, new timing chain and guide set, new oil control valve, new thermostat, and a 2016 Hellcat oil pump, which will bolt right up to the 5.7 Hemi and provide more oil volume at both the low and high ends. That order still has not shipped because they dont have the 785 lifters in stock. I have tried reaching out to the Service Department to see if they can tell me which part number I should be using for the front lifters and I have yet to be successful in getting ahold of someone to tell me or receive any calls back. Very frustrating to say the least. I hope someone, ANYONE, can confirm with me the part number of the lifters I need for the front. I would think I could just order four sets of the 786s and then just swap two sets over to the existing yokes in the correct order of where the MDS lifters need to go, but I haven't found anyone that can even confirm that I can do that. I know there are A LOT of people out there that have done this job already on their 2009-2015 Hemi's...what did they use? And as far as aftermarket lifters, I am trying to avoid them. They may be fine but I don't have enough data gathered to know which ones are good and which ones are junk. I want to get another 100k out of this engine and hopefully more. It has to be done right the first go around. Thanks.

 

[Shepherdguy]

Be careful with RockAuto, I can tell you from experience, that their catalog is not the best on compatibility and crossing part numbers. I've had a few times where their system said it was the correct part, and it wasn't (and their return policy's stinks, you lose shipping costs even when they screw up). Rock Auto is pretty much 100% computer based, no human to "catch" the errors they have, until it's reported, and even then they don't do much with it.

Call the local dealership and get the part# from them and then use that to search on.

Also, Most of the "performance" shops carry the OEM and upgraded lifters. (Summit, Jeg's, etc).

Yes, thank you. I have had a few issues with RockAuto in the past, not too many. But for this job, I am only considering the MOPAR parts they have available, not a cross-referenced aftermarket. if they didn't have the MOPAR part I needed available, I went to either an on-line MOPAR parts dealer, or the local dealership themselves based on availability.

 

[crackerjack1957]

05038785AD for front left & right
https://www.factorychryslerparts.co...ront-Hydraulic-Engine/4522758/53021726BC.html

https://www.factorychryslerparts.co...eft-Side--Right-Side/12924551/05038785AD.html

 

[Shepherdguy]

05038785AD for front left & right
https://www.factorychryslerparts.co...ront-Hydraulic-Engine/4522758/53021726BC.html

https://www.factorychryslerparts.co...eft-Side--Right-Side/12924551/05038785AD.html

View attachment 531920

Thank you. I had ordered that same part number a week ago but it was on back order. Just got confirmation today that it has now shipped. Thank you for confirming the part.