Canadian_Ram
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2014
- Posts
- 181
- Reaction score
- 50
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
- Ram Year
- 2013
- Engine
- Hemi 5.7
TL;DR: Pinion Angle
I know, another wobble thread, how original. My solution was found by my friends dad who was in the Canadian Rally Championship in the Late 90s and has experience with both lowered cars and trucks both personally and professionally.
My 4WD single cab shortbox Ram wobbles significantly when exceeding 90 MPH and only gets worse as I accelerate. Nothing in this thread is to discredit anyone I asked for advice or any other thread on RF's. I will add good quality pictures after work possibly to aid others hopefully. Here is the steps I went through including what realistically was accompanied by 10's of hours of research and note taking. All Mcgaughys parts I reference were from their 'Deluxe Drop Kit - McGaughys Part# 44050'
Step 1:
Took my truck in for alignment, tire rotation and balancing. No real noticeable change.
Step 2:
I had my front left CV which was failing from unknown reasons replaced under warranty and had the dealer also align my truck while It was in for warranty work.
Step 3:
Under advice of other 2/4 owners and Hemi450HP, I purchased a Sphon Adjustable Panhard Bar. It was installed in combination with my Mcgaughys panhard relocation bracket and adjusted to get the tires as close to possible using a plumb bob and tape measure. It was noticed that the tires seemed to have a very slight camber in, where the tops appeared to be slightly farther under the fender than the bottoms. Tires were checked for bulging and wear and were ensured to be at the proper PSI and had the lugs torqued to spec after.
The wobble felt as noticeable as ever before even with the panhard adjusted and triple checked to ensure it was also torqued and installed correctly.
Step 4:
Next up was the Hellwig Rear Sway Bar which bolted right up as-per the instructions to the Mcgaughys shortened end-links to the most aggresive frontward mounting point on the bar. This aligned the bar perfectly horizontal, everything was torqued back to Chrysler's specs and double checked. The panhard was also double checked after to ensure both bars together had the axle were where it should be. One comment about the sway bar, its quality is amazing, also ensure you are installing it in the exact same orientation as stock, I am pretty sure its not symmetrical and has a left and right side one causing the center to be higher than the other orientation (possibly contact panhard or diff) but I don't know if that's labelled or mentioned in the instructions. It can be done done on your driveway with most of the proper tools but if I had a lift it would have taken 1/4 of the time that it did.
The truck's rear end feels solid when taking corners at high speeds such as on-ramps, you still feel the wobble over bumps and at high speeds but its just a stiffer wobble instead of being mushy like it was before. This wobble is much safer and much easier to handle for the average driver, I can see how some people feel confident calling this a fix, I want next to no movement at high speeds. So I am not done.
Step 5:
I have QA1 rear shocks ordered, TS905's that Hemi450HP verified to be direct bolt on's and no modification needed. Will verify when they arrive. In my eyes the rear shocks are no good. The rear is dropped using coils and changed 4", 4" results in a very large angle change in multiple components of the stock set-up and I think shocks are one of them. I believe that the factory shocks add to the wobble because they are not operating at their optimum angle nor design distance like they do when the rear is 4" higher.
Wondering if I NEED to replace the front shocks also or if only the rears will be acceptable. I personally think the front ones will be fine because we used a spindle drop which is intended to keep the front geometry AS CLOSE AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE to factory while still achieving a drop. At the cost of pushing your tires out 1/2" - 3/4".
Step 6:
My friends dad who was in the Canadian Rally Championship in the Late 90s and has experience with building and working on both lowered cars and trucks, especially suspension wise, both personally and professionally looked at my truck and very quickly told me my pinon angle is off and that it is causing wheel hop. These problems compound together and causes the rear end to eventually start wagging or wobble even with Step 3 & 4. I am in the process of calling Spohn or Matt (whoever can get me the delrin bushings the easiest) and ordering Spohn Upper & Lower Rear Control Arms in order to recenter and correct the pinon angle to one that is correct for the new geometry of the truck and the way I want to drive it.
He mentioned over text message to me if I wanted to almost ensure this was the problem I could by: Removing/unbolting/undoing what holds the rear drive-shaft in safely and drive the vehicle in 4WD. It would be very unorthodox and something you don't want to do for a large distance or time period AT ALL but it could confirm if the drive-shaft/angle is the culprit. I'm not going to try this even with his help, I wanted the control arms anyways this just gives me justification to spend more $$ without feeling guilty. After I install them, adjust them the best I can and most likely take it to a professional alignment shop and let them adjust all the Spohn components in combination with the rest of the truck I should see no wheel hop at any speeds and definitely no more wagging or wobble. I will be putting on perfect Nitto 420's that are staggered to account for the 1/2" - 3/4" that the front spindles push out the front tires and the tires will be perfectly aligned and weighted.
Step 7:
Profit??
I should have no excuse within a couple weeks time. I hope this might help anyone currently with problems that is on the fence about the Spohn Upper and Lower Rear Control Arms, or anyone in the future with problems as well. I will post again when I get the Shocks and the Control Arms in. If anyone can tell me if not upgrading the front shocks is acceptable or not and if it isn't which shocks I need? Thanks.
I know, another wobble thread, how original. My solution was found by my friends dad who was in the Canadian Rally Championship in the Late 90s and has experience with both lowered cars and trucks both personally and professionally.
My 4WD single cab shortbox Ram wobbles significantly when exceeding 90 MPH and only gets worse as I accelerate. Nothing in this thread is to discredit anyone I asked for advice or any other thread on RF's. I will add good quality pictures after work possibly to aid others hopefully. Here is the steps I went through including what realistically was accompanied by 10's of hours of research and note taking. All Mcgaughys parts I reference were from their 'Deluxe Drop Kit - McGaughys Part# 44050'
Step 1:
Took my truck in for alignment, tire rotation and balancing. No real noticeable change.
Step 2:
I had my front left CV which was failing from unknown reasons replaced under warranty and had the dealer also align my truck while It was in for warranty work.
Step 3:
Under advice of other 2/4 owners and Hemi450HP, I purchased a Sphon Adjustable Panhard Bar. It was installed in combination with my Mcgaughys panhard relocation bracket and adjusted to get the tires as close to possible using a plumb bob and tape measure. It was noticed that the tires seemed to have a very slight camber in, where the tops appeared to be slightly farther under the fender than the bottoms. Tires were checked for bulging and wear and were ensured to be at the proper PSI and had the lugs torqued to spec after.
The wobble felt as noticeable as ever before even with the panhard adjusted and triple checked to ensure it was also torqued and installed correctly.
Step 4:
Next up was the Hellwig Rear Sway Bar which bolted right up as-per the instructions to the Mcgaughys shortened end-links to the most aggresive frontward mounting point on the bar. This aligned the bar perfectly horizontal, everything was torqued back to Chrysler's specs and double checked. The panhard was also double checked after to ensure both bars together had the axle were where it should be. One comment about the sway bar, its quality is amazing, also ensure you are installing it in the exact same orientation as stock, I am pretty sure its not symmetrical and has a left and right side one causing the center to be higher than the other orientation (possibly contact panhard or diff) but I don't know if that's labelled or mentioned in the instructions. It can be done done on your driveway with most of the proper tools but if I had a lift it would have taken 1/4 of the time that it did.
The truck's rear end feels solid when taking corners at high speeds such as on-ramps, you still feel the wobble over bumps and at high speeds but its just a stiffer wobble instead of being mushy like it was before. This wobble is much safer and much easier to handle for the average driver, I can see how some people feel confident calling this a fix, I want next to no movement at high speeds. So I am not done.
Step 5:
I have QA1 rear shocks ordered, TS905's that Hemi450HP verified to be direct bolt on's and no modification needed. Will verify when they arrive. In my eyes the rear shocks are no good. The rear is dropped using coils and changed 4", 4" results in a very large angle change in multiple components of the stock set-up and I think shocks are one of them. I believe that the factory shocks add to the wobble because they are not operating at their optimum angle nor design distance like they do when the rear is 4" higher.
Wondering if I NEED to replace the front shocks also or if only the rears will be acceptable. I personally think the front ones will be fine because we used a spindle drop which is intended to keep the front geometry AS CLOSE AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE to factory while still achieving a drop. At the cost of pushing your tires out 1/2" - 3/4".
Step 6:
My friends dad who was in the Canadian Rally Championship in the Late 90s and has experience with building and working on both lowered cars and trucks, especially suspension wise, both personally and professionally looked at my truck and very quickly told me my pinon angle is off and that it is causing wheel hop. These problems compound together and causes the rear end to eventually start wagging or wobble even with Step 3 & 4. I am in the process of calling Spohn or Matt (whoever can get me the delrin bushings the easiest) and ordering Spohn Upper & Lower Rear Control Arms in order to recenter and correct the pinon angle to one that is correct for the new geometry of the truck and the way I want to drive it.
He mentioned over text message to me if I wanted to almost ensure this was the problem I could by: Removing/unbolting/undoing what holds the rear drive-shaft in safely and drive the vehicle in 4WD. It would be very unorthodox and something you don't want to do for a large distance or time period AT ALL but it could confirm if the drive-shaft/angle is the culprit. I'm not going to try this even with his help, I wanted the control arms anyways this just gives me justification to spend more $$ without feeling guilty. After I install them, adjust them the best I can and most likely take it to a professional alignment shop and let them adjust all the Spohn components in combination with the rest of the truck I should see no wheel hop at any speeds and definitely no more wagging or wobble. I will be putting on perfect Nitto 420's that are staggered to account for the 1/2" - 3/4" that the front spindles push out the front tires and the tires will be perfectly aligned and weighted.
Step 7:
Profit??
I should have no excuse within a couple weeks time. I hope this might help anyone currently with problems that is on the fence about the Spohn Upper and Lower Rear Control Arms, or anyone in the future with problems as well. I will post again when I get the Shocks and the Control Arms in. If anyone can tell me if not upgrading the front shocks is acceptable or not and if it isn't which shocks I need? Thanks.
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