‘I’d rather travel by horse or donkey than drive an electric car’

[Yardbird]

‘I’d rather travel by horse or donkey than drive an electric car’​

Story by Arielle Goldstein - 3 min read


Electric vehicles (EVs) are the most likely type of car to break down, according to a major survey of tens of thousands of drivers.

The latest What Car? Reliability Survey found that 16.8 per cent of EV owners reported a breakdown in the past two years – a higher rate than petrol (10.7 per cent), hybrid (14 per cent), and diesel (15 per cent) car owners.

Telegraph readers have long expressed scepticism about switching to electric cars and according to an exclusive Telegraph poll, a striking 83 per cent of more than 270,000 respondents said they would not buy an EV.

‘EVs are manifestly inferior’​

For many, like reader Glenn Ewen, buying an electric car is “senseless”. Mr Ewen says: “If EVs were viable, they would have flooded the market by now, but they’re not. The average driver will have very little use for one.”

Reader Nigel Curtress, from Surrey, argues that electric cars are “manifestly inferior to the product they are trying to replace.”

Among Mr Curtress’ chief concerns is the overall cost of owning an EV, which he says is “materially higher than the equivalent ICE. They cost more to buy and depreciate at an eye-watering rate.”

Inconvenience is another major concern for Mr Curtress. At a wedding he recently attended, guests with electric cars who were staying overnight had to compete for the two charge points in the hotel car park.

He says: “Many had long journeys the following day. I am not kidding, they were setting alarms in the middle of the night for their one hour time slot [at the charge point]. It sounds like a joke, but it’s the reality of living with an EV.”

Reader Philip Graham, 54, took the plunge and bought an EV, however just three years later, he couldn’t wait to get rid of it.

Mr Graham, who lives in Bury St Edmunds, West Suffolk, took advantage of government incentives to buy a small electric car. However, he sold his Honda E Advance when the repayment scheme came to an end and reverted back to a petrol car.

In addition to the serious battery issues, which were particularly bad in the cold winter months, Mr Graham says: “The Honda E was exceptionally difficult to connect to the Honda App, which you need to control practically every aspect of the vehicle. They talk about ‘range anxiety’, but that car gave you that feeling in spades every time you got in it.”

When asked what it would take to buy another EV, Mr Graham proclaims: “If it was the last car in the world, I’d still rather travel by horse or donkey.”

In agreement, John Evans adds: “I’ve never been so relieved to get rid of a vehicle as I was when I sold my Porsche Taycan EV. The problems are too many to list. I will never have another full EV.”

‘Petrol cars are yesterday’s technology’​

Despite the overwhelming majority of Telegraph readers who voted that they would never buy an electric car, a spirited few made the case for why it was a worthwhile investment.

Stuart Hargreaves, 55, from Wakefield, West Yorkshire recently became an EV owner. After weighing the pros and cons he decided to buy a two-and-a-half-year-old Hyundai Ioniq and “hasn’t looked back.”

Mr Hargreaves shares: “It is extremely efficient and easily averages five plus miles per kwh. I am self-sufficient in charging my car and don’t have any expensive and inconvenient visits to dirty petrol stations anymore.”

Likewise, an anonymous reader adds: “The whole car industry is having to shift to a new paradigm. Internal combustion engines are yesterday’s technology.”

While reader Percy Flage argues: “The Government should subsidise EV purchases and invest in the charging infrastructure.”

Colin and Sue Stter, both in their 80s are also proud EV owners. The pair bought a Kia E-Nero five years ago and have never had an issue with their car.

“We’ve driven it from our home in Bedfordshire to Scotland and have never had a problem finding a charge. On a day-to-day basis, we drive it, return home and recharge it overnight on cheap electricity. It is easy to fuel, easy to run and so quiet.”

Mr Suter says he doesn’t understand all of the hate EVs get: “Our car has never caught fire and [our battery] has never run out. If you are scared of change, or a slave to the oil and gasoline companies, that’s your problem, but do please grow up!”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/per...S&cvid=bff87e31040d480f82461928d40ebb7b&ei=40

 

[ramffml]

I highly, highly doubt that EVs break down more than ICE. I'm no fan of EV's especially trucks, but it's basically electronics and a few motors, no real moving parts or maintenance needed. Consider how complicated an ICE engine, transmission, drive line, 4x4, diffs and lockers are.

If EVs were the current standard and someone came out with a hemi truck we'd be going: wow, 1000 individual moving parts, would could possibly go wrong.

But they definitely have their flaws, and it'll probably be decades before I'd consider purchasing an all EV truck.

The Ram charger... that has me quite interested. Definitely a complicated beast as it is both EV and ICE, but man the specs on that thing is nuts. Like over 2500 lbs payload, over 620 hp, a V6 so quiet in operation that in testing many were unable to tell when it comes on or goes off, able to pull its 14k rated load with a fully depleted battery. Plug it in at home to save fuel costs, then fill up with gas on the road while towing your trailer.

The problem here will be cost. We just know it'll take 80k and your right kidney for a tradesman version.

 

[David Vandercook]

My 86 breaks down occasionally, but if I can't fix it on the side of the road or limp home it's always back running again in under 24 hours. When a EV breaks down it's usually a week or more before you can get it back from the dealership.
Honestly same thing goes for newer gas trucks, too hard to fix

 

[CanuckRam1313]

My 86 breaks down occasionally, but if I can't fix it on the side of the road or limp home it's always back running again in under 24 hours. When a EV breaks down it's usually a week or more before you can get it back from the dealership.

and your 86' won't trap you inside and let you burn

 

[Docwagon1776]

Clickbait nonsense, which is primarily what the Telegraph churns out since the Barclay bros bought it. They post a ton of stuff they know conservatives will eat up, sprinkle it with links, and watch the money roll in.

 

[ramffml]

and your 86' won't trap you inside and let you burn

No but your 86 will just shove its steering wheel through your chest when you hit some one.

Also there is no requirement for removing manual door handles when we switch to Ev's. Just sayin.

 

[ramffml]

My 86 breaks down occasionally, but if I can't fix it on the side of the road or limp home it's always back running again in under 24 hours. When a EV breaks down it's usually a week or more before you can get it back from the dealership.
Honestly same thing goes for newer gas trucks, too hard to fix

Too hard ... for YOU. Kids growing up these days have a better chance of swapping simple electronics around or flashing software updates etc then guys in your generation.

Can you manually install an app on your android phone using a usb cable and a second computer? I can. But I can't swap lifters out of my hemi if she blows.

This is called progress. I'm OK with that. What I'm not ok with is taking choice away from the consumer through misguided policies based on fear and half baked science.

 

[Docwagon1776]

No but your 86 will just shove its steering wheel through your chest when you hit some one.

Also there is no requirement for removing manual door handles when we switch to Ev's. Just sayin.

Seen that. Split the sternum and the ribs flexed around it then grabbed, the body had to stay in the truck as a coroner tow as you couldn't reasonably pull the corpse off the steering column. I assume they had to cut the ribs to get him out.

Also the "tooth fountain" from banging their mouth on the steering wheel and turning the teeth into gravel. Seat belt would have helped there, mind you.

It's simply beyond intelligent debate that modern vehicles are safer. I simply hope we don't reverse that trend with technology for the sake of technology. I never got the shaved door handles thing in the 90s and relying on poppers to open your door, though, so I'm not really a form over function sort of person.

 

[David Vandercook]

Too hard ... for YOU. Kids growing up these days have a better chance of swapping simple electronics around or flashing software updates etc then guys in your generation.

Can you manually install an app on your android phone using a usb cable and a second computer? I can. But I can't swap lifters out of my hemi if she blows.

This is called progress. I'm OK with that. What I'm not ok with is taking choice away from the consumer through misguided policies based on fear and half baked science.

I'm actually gen z. I'll admit that I know literally nothing about computers, but have always loved wrenching on small engines and old cars. Yeah, there's a few of us dumb kids who do computer stuff, but most of us would rather own and repair older cars

 

[David Vandercook]

Seen that. Split the sternum and the ribs flexed around it then grabbed, the body had to stay in the truck as a coroner tow as you couldn't reasonably pull the corpse off the steering column. I assume they had to cut the ribs to get him out.

Also the "tooth fountain" from banging their mouth on the steering wheel and turning the teeth into gravel. Seat belt would have helped there, mind you.

It's simply beyond intelligent debate that modern vehicles are safer. I simply hope we don't reverse that trend with technology for the sake of technology. I never got the shaved door handles thing in the 90s and relying on poppers to open your door, though, so I'm not really a form over function sort of person.

That's why I drive my ford when I want to get in a collision.

 

[Docwagon1776]

That's why I drive my ford when I want to get in a collision.

Try something with tracks. It becomes a much more enjoyable experience. Assuming you keep it track side down, you may not even notice the collision.

I got to run over a Jeep with an M60A3 for "training purposes" once. Most fun an 18 year old could have with his pants on, I think.

 

[ppine]

ICEs are an entrenched technology. It is what we are used to. They are nostalgic. Most of us know how to work on them. We have fond memories of earlier ones. I can't see an EV in my future but I am old and stuck in the past.

I have a friend with a new Lexus hybrid. Maybe that is a good compromise. He loves the car but the pirate voltage is very high and the car needs to be plugged into to a charger if it is not driven about twice a week. He calls it a PITA and makes the car not worth owning.

I live in Nevada. Charging stations have been under construction now for over 10 years. But it is still hard to find one in the Outback which is most of the state. EV batteries are happiest when they run at 20-80% of their potential charge. In practical terms, that means that you can count on about 2/3 of the range quoted on the window sticker. Usually that is not enough. For towing the numbers decrease substantially making an EV truck impractical.

Another friend splurged and went out an bought a new Cadillac EV. It is beautiful and really fast. But he could not take it to Wyoming "because there were not enough charging stations."

We all have our biases. Try to be honest with yourself when express them. In the West EVs don't make sense yet.

 

[06 Dodge]

ICEs are an entrenched technology. It is what we are used to. They are nostalgic. Most of us know how to work on them. We have fond memories of earlier ones. I can't see an EV in my future but I am old and stuck in the past.

I have a friend with a new Lexus hybrid. Maybe that is a good compromise. He loves the car but the pirate voltage is very high and the car needs to be plugged into to a charger if it is not driven about twice a week. He calls it a PITA and makes the car not worth owning.

I live in Nevada. Charging stations have been under construction now for over 10 years. But it is still hard to find one in the Outback which is most of the state. EV batteries are happiest when they run at 20-80% of their potential charge. In practical terms, that means that you can count on about 2/3 of the range quoted on the window sticker. Usually that is not enough. For towing the numbers decrease substantially making an EV truck impractical.

Another friend splurged and went out an bought a new Cadillac EV. It is beautiful and really fast. But he could not take it to Wyoming "because there were not enough charging stations."

We all have our biases. Try to be honest with yourself when express them. In the West EVs don't make sense yet.

If a hybrid need to be plugged to a charges if not driven twice a week sounds to me like it has a problem or two, this is based on the fact as we have left my wife's 2 different Toyota hybrid SUV's sitting for 15 & 18 day's, she didn't have problems when she went to use them....

 

[Sal2006]

Trucks run on Gas or Diesel.
Toys run on Batteries !!!

 

[Bad Tiki]

They don’t work in the north either!
Wife had a Nissan leaf. The 200km full charge range would drop to 170 in the winter, that’s provided you don’t run the heat. Have seen Tesla drivers wearing snowmobile suits lol !

 

[Blue Truck]

Rage-bait nonsense article...

While an EV wouldn't work for me, they do for a lot of people, and their reasons are legit. A friend of mine who's a former mechanic and race car driver loves his. IMHO, too many people make it an emotional, ideological topic instead of a logical one. I may be an anomaly, but in my friend group, more conservatives have EVs and hybrids than liberals. Go figure.

 

[KerryinTN]

It is a false premise -EV vs ICE.

Gas and diesel have a higher energy density than batteries currently do, but that may change.

The downside of batteries is that when your 25-35 gallons of gas are used up, you are no longer paying a performance penalty to haul those 150-210 lbs up a hill the whole time, unlike an empty 1,000-2,000 lb battery, which is 100% dragging you down whether full or empty.

The bigger downside of batteries is not the battery, but the tech in the vehicle, which tends to be greater in an EV. Modern ICE Rams may suffer from too much tech as most cars today do, but EV’s are far, far worse in that category. Those who embrace would likely also embrace the mark of the beast for the ease it provides in buying lunch.

 

[lpennock]

For an EV to make sense you need to have the correct model. When I replaced the Wife's Van with a EV I looked at the way we were using her van and decided we had the perfect model for a EV (Kia EV6).
1. Able to charge it at home as I already had 50amp outlet in garage.
2. Mostly short (<10 mile) in town trips. Occasional round trips on highway of less than 200 miles which is easily in the Full charge range.
3. Mostly take the truck with the camper for long road trips and willing to rent an ICE if making a long trip without the camper.

After a year of use I have no complaints. Normal 80% charge gets me 200-250 stop and go range with about 100 miles range left for about $6 in electric. Only routine maintenance is tire rotation, cabin air filter and fill windshield washer.

Not saying a EV is for everyone but with the right models it works well.

 

[Yardbird]

If you have a newer ICE engine with direct injection, and do the majority of driving in town or very short trips, and EV may be a better choice.

The DI engine will fail under those conditions. How long before failure? Who knows, but the teardowns of DI engines are not looking good.

Engine oil needs to be changed more often, short trips cause a lot of carbon/soot, The oil rings cake, causing oil burning, oil in the engine sludges much quicker with DI.

Most of the above problems can be traced back to EGR systems attempting to meet tailpipe emissions by overwhelming the engine with soot.

DI appears to be more of a problem than a solution.

Maybe that was the intention. Make engines so complicated and unreliable, people will buy electric.

 

[ppine]

I have ridden a lot of horses and mules in the last 50 years and a few donkeys. I like all of them, but they are slow and require a lot of care.

A friend of mine in high school rode a horse but had no car. It was a 25 mile round trip to see his girl friend. That made for some late nights in the dark coming home.

In a blizzard in the dark I would rather be riding a good mule.