Increasing Towing/Hauling Capability?

[3TV]

I'm going through the process of trying to improve the cargo carrying capability of my Ram 3500. I don't need to increase the capacity, just the capability. I'm talking about the way it carries weight, meaning trying to achieve less sag, sway, and wallowing. I am carrying an Arctic Fox 992 slide in camper.

There seem to be several options, including air bags, Timbren's, Stableloads, and others I probably haven't heard of. I've made a few changes already, but I may try experimenting with something different. I'm interested in what the forum has to say about this topic.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Your payload is almost 2x the dry weight of the camper.

Northwood | Arctic Fox Camper 992

The Arctic Fox Camper 992 from Northwood. An Arctic Fox Camper.

northwoodmfg.com

You should not have any driving issues.

You should look at:
1. set up of camper/truck
2. driving style.
3. expectations as to what it is like to drive with a camper

If you want to spend some $, you could look at aftermarket shocks. Look into Rancho 9000xl's - they are adjustable.

 

[GTyankee]

does The truck have coils springs ?

Hellwig Sway Bar
get heavier coils ?
adjustable shocks ?
airbags for coils ?

my choice,
leaf springs ? $$

 

[2003F350]

With it being a 3500 you've got leaf springs in the rear so that's helping you.

You're also a dually.

But that camper weighs 3500 lbs empty - that's a LOT of weight with a high center of gravity. Realistically, it's going to sag and wallow over rough terrain, and it's a giant sail, any cross breeze is going to push you around.

You could try bags, but honestly that's just going to mask it. An upgraded rear sway bar would do more to actually help with the body roll.

My dad went through this years ago with his truck camper, I don't recall the weight of it or the exact length but it's a similar layout Palomino, an older one so it's all wood frame and heavy. He ended up going to an F450 which solved 90% of the issues, and he can still tow a small trailer behind him.

 

[3TV]

Here is the truck and camper.


The published weight of this camper of 3500 lbs is kind of a lie. That weight is with no options, and Northwood Mfg has a required "value package" that they won't sell a camper without. The options in that package are worth getting, but they add a lot of weight to what the published dry weight is. Then add weight for the generator, air conditioning, dual batteries, dual LP tanks, full water tanks, and all of your camping gear. The wet weight is probably at least 4500 lbs., maybe close to 5000 lbs.

I've had pickup campers before, and I know what they drive like. I've always just tolerated the top-heavy overloaded feel of them. Other than changing shocks on a prior truck, this is the first time I have decided to try and do something to improve it. Just wondering what other people have had success with.

I hadn't thought about the Hellwig sway bar. That is a good idea. Stronger shocks are a good idea as well. But I put Rancho 9000s on an F350 I hauled a smaller camper with 5 years ago and didn't like the ride when the truck was empty. At any setting they felt like they had too much compression damping and practically no rebound damping. Anyone use Bilstein's for this application? I've heard good things about Bilstein shocks. Bilstein shocks have digressive valving, which is supposed to provide good handling, although not as good at small or big bump absorption as shocks with progressive valving.

 

[2003F350]

Really shocks and sway bars are about all you're going to be able to do to effectively control the body roll - it's a top heavy load, that is basically a large sail.

Looking at the picture of your truck I'm guessing that's a Tradesman? Does it have any of the camper/plow packages on it? Those tend to come with a bit heavier springs and improved sway bars over a base one, which would also help with body roll and sag.

The camper looks to be about the size of my dad's, and his solution was an F450. He still gets pushed around a bit but body roll and sag are almost non-existent. Of course that would mean a different truck for you, and since it looks like you just bought that one it may not be an option.

 

[Dean2]

A good set of air bags won't 100% solve your issues but them and a beefier sway bar will definitely help with sag, rocking in the wind and the like. Have used them on SRW one tons for years, with large Campers on them. The airbags make a very noticeable difference. Best ones I have found are Firestone's.

 

[mtnrider]

Good golly, that is a Huge slide in. I'm surprised they actually sell something that big, it looks like it would be unstable on the road. Good suggestions here but I'm not sure there is anything that is going to make a big difference? That is a lot a weight and a really high center of gravity.


.

 

[WSix]

That looks like half a fifth wheel RV in your bed!
I'd look at a set of Pacbrake air bags.

 

[3TV]

Really shocks and sway bars are about all you're going to be able to do to effectively control the body roll - it's a top heavy load, that is basically a large sail.

Looking at the picture of your truck I'm guessing that's a Tradesman? Does it have any of the camper/plow packages on it? Those tend to come with a bit heavier springs and improved sway bars over a base one, which would also help with body roll and sag.

The camper looks to be about the size of my dad's, and his solution was an F450. He still gets pushed around a bit but body roll and sag are almost non-existent. Of course that would mean a different truck for you, and since it looks like you just bought that one it may not be an option.

Yes, the truck has all three prep groups. Camper prep group; fifth wheel / gooseneck prep group with the preinstalled pucks mounted in the bed; and snow plow prep group.

 

[3TV]

Thanks, I haven't looked at either the Firestone air bags or Pacbrake air bags, just the ones from Air Lift.

 

[KKBB]

I would get a 5th wheel...that's just my opinion. My dad used to have slide in campers years ago, and I remember just being scared half the time with those. A cross wind and you feel like you are gonna flip the truck. They are small as crap, pretty expensive. I get it if you don't want a bigger camper, or if you don't have the room for one or whatever, but if you have the chance...towing a 5th wheel is so much easier than a big ass slide in!!!

 

[Zoe Saldana]

With it being a 3500 you've got leaf springs in the rear so that's helping you.

You're also a dually.

But that camper weighs 3500 lbs empty - that's a LOT of weight with a high center of gravity. Realistically, it's going to sag and wallow over rough terrain, and it's a giant sail, any cross breeze is going to push you around.

You could try bags, but honestly that's just going to mask it. An upgraded rear sway bar would do more to actually help with the body roll.

My dad went through this years ago with his truck camper, I don't recall the weight of it or the exact length but it's a similar layout Palomino, an older one so it's all wood frame and heavy. He ended up going to an F450 which solved 90% of the issues, and he can still tow a small trailer behind him.

Dude the camper is Dry Weight: 3235.

What is the payload of the truck?

 

[Dean2]

I would get a 5th wheel...that's just my opinion. My dad used to have slide in campers years ago, and I remember just being scared half the time with those. A cross wind and you feel like you are gonna flip the truck. They are small as crap, pretty expensive. I get it if you don't want a bigger camper, or if you don't have the room for one or whatever, but if you have the chance...towing a 5th wheel is so much easier than a big ass slide in!!!

Got to say I agree. There are some very specific instances, like rough country access and camping, where a slide in excels but for regular living a 5th wheel or ball pull are a way better idea. We switched quite a few years ago. Also much easier to drop the trailer and have the pickup free, compared to unloading the camper on uneven ground.

 

[3TV]

I already have a 5th wheel. My truck divides it's time between towing a 37' dual axle, triple slide, Momentum 350G Toy Hauler, and hauling the Artic Fox 992. The Toy Hauler works great for trips where you are going to be going someplace and staying for a week. It is far more comfortable than a pickup camper and doesn't cause the top-heavy feel of the pickup camper. But it is way too big and hard to maneuver to travel around the country easily, while staying someplace different each night.

I will retire in 363 days (but who's counting?), and when I retire my wife and I want to spend months at a time traveling through the US, Canada, and Alaska. From experience, a pickup camper works great for this. You can go pretty much anywhere you can fit a pickup truck, including some rougher roads. And you can park in normal size parking lot spaces. But you really have to plan your route ahead of time with the fifth wheel, because it won't fit most places.



We plan on doing lots of traveling when I retire. I'm sure we will use both RVs

 

[2003F350]

Dude the camper is Dry Weight: 3235.

What is the payload of the truck?

Without looking at his sticker it's hard to say, but the MAX payload of a 3500 with the CTD per Ram's website is something like 6500 lbs. That's for a regular cab long box, I'm sure it goes down but not sure how much when you add a crew cab and any options.

That said, I rounded his camper's dry weight, but he also admitted that he was forced into a couple option packages that add quite a bit of weight to that 3235 so I was probably closer to right anyway. Even then, you CANNOT go off the published dry weight of ANY camper, because other than MAYBE when you bring it home if you ordered it with zero options, it will NEVER weigh that, ever. From water, waste, propane, camping gear, clothing, food, etc etc the weight is going to go up, and depending on how long you're staying and how much you take with you it could be a lot. Couple that with the extremely high center of gravity of most bigger truck campers and yes, they get 'tippy' pretty quickly.

And if you want to pull something behind like a boat or a small trailer, you've got to reserve some of that payload for that too.

 

[2003F350]

I already have a 5th wheel. My truck divides it's time between towing a 37' dual axle, triple slide, Momentum 350G Toy Hauler, and hauling the Artic Fox 992. The Toy Hauler works great for trips where you are going to be going someplace and staying for a week. It is far more comfortable than a pickup camper and doesn't cause the top-heavy feel of the pickup camper. But it is way too big and hard to maneuver to travel around the country easily, while staying someplace different each night.

I will retire in 363 days (but who's counting?), and when I retire my wife and I want to spend months at a time traveling through the US, Canada, and Alaska. From experience, a pickup camper works great for this. You can go pretty much anywhere you can fit a pickup truck, including some rougher roads. And you can park in normal size parking lot spaces. But you really have to plan your route ahead of time with the fifth wheel, because it won't fit most places.

View attachment 544715

We plan on doing lots of traveling when I retire. I'm sure we will use both RVs

Speaking as one whose in-laws tried it out, living out of a camper can be difficult, especially in a smaller one. When they retired they tried to take a smaller fifth wheel on the road with their three pomeranians and they felt cramped, and also that they couldn't take everything they wanted to live comfortably. So they traded that setup in for his last F450 and a toyhauler, a big Spartan (I don't recall the model number but it was 43' long). They enjoyed themselves then, having the extra room everywhere.

You're absolutely right, you've got to plan ahead with the fifth wheel, most 'off grid' campgrounds aren't going to have room for you if that's your thing. But what they did was plan to go to an area, stay a week or two, and take day trips everywhere they wanted to go. It also allowed them to have their own washer/dryer instead of having to pay for a laundromat. So there's definitely advantages to going the fifth wheel route instead of the truck camper, but try it out - you might find you like the truck camper better.

 

[3TV]

At the start of this thread, I said I was going to experiment with a few things to see if they helped decrease squat and swaying. Well, an item just showed up on UPS. I have a set of lower Stableloads to install on my day off from work today. The timing is perfect because the camper is off the truck and at the best auto detailing shop I have worked with in decades. It is getting a 5-year ceramic coating applied. I've owned RVs for 30 years, and I'm tired of how badly the exteriors fade after just a few years parked in the sun, especially the graphics they all have on them. Hopefully the ceramic coating will help.

I'll report on the effect of the Stableloads after I get them installed and have the camper back on the truck.

https://torkliftcentral.com/rving-and-towing/suspension-upgrades/stableload

 

[3TV]

Without looking at his sticker it's hard to say, but the MAX payload of a 3500 with the CTD per Ram's website is something like 6500 lbs. That's for a regular cab long box, I'm sure it goes down but not sure how much when you add a crew cab and any options.

That said, I rounded his camper's dry weight, but he also admitted that he was forced into a couple option packages that add quite a bit of weight to that 3235 so I was probably closer to right anyway.

Sticker on the door says 5,661 lbs. It's ironic how adding things like a camper prep package actually decrease the maximum payload capacity, which will decrease the weight of the camper you can carry.

 

[rzr6-4]

https://torkliftcentral.com/rving-and-towing/suspension-upgrades/stableload

Got some bold statements and all around questionable marketing on their site. That said, these *might* help. I look forward to you being our guinea pig.