Intermittent brake failure

[HamishN]

22 1500 classic.

4 times this winter I've applied brake and had the following happen.
-brake pedal is rock solid, zero give
-ABS clicking, sounds normal.
-zero braking, even if I let off the brake and try again.
-no lights, no codes

I know what your thinking "slow down and watch for ice" but it's not that. I told myself that was the cause the first three times. The last time it happened I had 500ft of space to slow down from 60k on mostly clear pavement. Wound up coasting through a red light.

As well, I played around with it last week when we had basically skating rink conditions and it worked perfectly.

Dealership said "no codes no problem" and handed me the keys back.

I really don't want to get into an accident and have to explain this to insurance.

Thoughts?

 

[Burla]

The dealer is a fool if it happened like that, call a shop and tell them what happened and see if they will take the truck, and have it towed there. It is likely an issue from master cylinder to abs, most likely the power boost. And remember if this happens again, you do have an emergency brake use it. Dont drive this truck til this is fixed, my guess 5-6 hundred bucks depending on parts, could be higher.

You can verify it isnt simple like a stuck caliper, jack each tire and rotate in neutral with e brake off. Maybe have someone push brake and see the tire spins freely after that. But my guess it is more serious.

 

[Burla]

DYI test for power booster. That doesnt mean drive it if this fails, whatever other problems are nothing will be as bad as hurting a kid walking to school cause you didnt fix this. read the entire page,,,

 

[Jeepwalker]

If it only happened a couple times, it's intermittent. Intermttent's are difficult to locate. Did the dealer look over the brake system by eye, other than scan for codes? They should have. Maybe they did and you weren't aware.

It sounds like a brake booster problem. But they're not usually THAT intermittent. Possibly a vacuum line is cracked or has moisture that built-up in a check valve or vacuum lines between the booster and the engine. ABS module wiring ought to be looked at. Possibly a WIN Module flake-out..and your truck shut off momentarily??

Was it particularly cold the days the brakes went 'hard'? If so, it might be worth doing a brake fluid exchange in the off-chance there's some moisture in the system that froze to ice. A good shop that has a brake fluid exchange machine can do this. But make sure they also have the ability to actuate the ABS brake bleed process. If they can't do that ...find a shop (or dealer) which can. Because that needs to be done to exchange it all. You need to be your own advocate and *ask* those questions ...and almost be there watching to ensure it actually occurs (people/techs/shops will shortcut steps all the time).

Make sure your battery cable connections are real clean too. 2022 is pretty new..Hmmm. Call the dealer part's dept. Ask the parts guy, esp the parts manager who their 'best' tech is. Or just ask who their "Master Tech" is. Then call the service mgr and arrange to have THAT guy (by name) scheduled to work on your truck. Make sure he's there THAT day you drop the truck off and they don't swap their new guy onto it. Each dealer has one or two really good techs, a few who are mediocre and a couple with one foot out the door (or just arrived and just learning). The difference between 'great techs' and 'guys putting in 8hrs' is like night vs day. Who knows what tech was looking at your truck? This is a job for a 'really good' tech to put his thinking cap on. Great techs love a challenge.

I would probably change the fluid anyway. It may not be the issue. But at least if it isn't you can rule it out ..and you haven't done any harm by doing so (its a maintenance item...but usually several yrs down the road). But maybe in doing the job they'll uncover something else.

 

[HamishN]

Did the DIY brake test recommended. Operated as expected.

Called customer support. They said they can't escalate until a second dealer looks at it. Explained that the next closest dealer is 1500km away. Too bad SOL from customer support. They also warned me that if I or an independent shop touches it my warranty is void.

I'll try to escalate at the dealership.

Will update as I get more info.

 

[Burla]

Did you get a receipt on the dealer appointment? You need that! And I'd test your ebrake, sometimes they loosen up and need tightening. When using an e brake for stopping, you will want to use it just like a brake, so pull on the brake release with the left hand while pressing the pedal at the same time, keep it pulled back with your left hand never leaving it, you will have no control and it will skid if you do. It may or may not stop the truck, but it will chuck off enough speed so you can navigate. Plus assume at every stop sign or stop light you have no brakes, that way you get in the habit of pumping way before intersection. I still wouldnt drive it, but if you are going to anyway, those can protect you.

 

[markabby]

it's a 2022? i'd drop it off at the dealers because it should be under warranty. If they refuse to look into it, keep a record of them refusing because if you get in an accident and cause serious harm, you can always point to the dealership for not fixing the problem or at least attempting to correct it.

just my legal opinion.

 

[HamishN]

I do have a copy of the service record basically saying they checked codes and cleared it.

When I picked it up I asked if they were aware that they'd be assuming liability by not pursuing the problem. Verbatim he said "if it happens again and nothing disastrous happens bring it back"

They flat out told me they wouldn't even do a brake flush.

 

[HamishN]

Fyi

 

[Burla]

There are some messed up dealer stories, sounds like you have one. Did you read the entire dyi, there are some vacuum tests as well. Check valve test I think you dont need anything, vacuum test you need a vac gauge.

 

[HamishN]

Update.

I checked the weather on all the days I remembered having the brake failure. All below -30c. Seemed like a moisture/freezing issue. However, with winter on its way out the likelihood of it re-occurring is low.

Dealership sent me a feedback survey and I was brutally honest with them. Shortly after they offered to have another look. They had a good look through the system this time and couldn't find any faults. They did flush my brakes, so with any luck that covers it.

I'll have to see how it performs next winter to be sure.