Just about ready to purchase a toy hauler....

[jjump]

Ok all, I have posted a few times over the past year, and I have done as much research as I can to understand towing capabilities, tongue weights, GVWR’s, etc.

I believe I have asked the right questions and have armed myself with as much knowledge as possible to dive into the purchase of a Toy Hauler.

After many months of research and online shopping, and my second RV show coming up this weekend, I know what to look for, and I am ready to make the dive.

I have narrowed my search down to either the Forest River Grey Wolf 19rr or 21rr, based on weights, length’s, cost, etc. I know there are similar units from other supplies, even Forest River, but then the cost starts to go up, or the weights start to go up.

I am really pickled by the 25rr, but the extra little weight, and added length just don’t make the decision comfortable for me, but I like the 25rr layout better than the 21rr, but not sure I want to chance it. Especially due to the fact that I am likely going to have to travel outside of Pittsburgh to get my unit, and get it at a decent price.

So, here is where I am at. I used the figures from a 21rr, if I go to the 19rr, they are a bit less, so I will be OK. Using the tools from RAM, and my VIN number lookup, I think I got it figured out.

Though I have found an error between the Ram Towing website and the cargo sticker. The note for “payload” calls out anything in the bed of the truck, and the “sticker” calls out the total weight of cargo and occupants, that is the figure I am using.

I also plan to load the family and truck as I would for a weekend, and get it weighed on a CAT scale before I purchase anything.

2014 RAM 1500
Truck – 5,350 lbs
Family – 600 lbs ( we are under this, but I left it like this for growth, and that is what the calculator uses)
Trailer Hitch and Tongue – 800 lbs. (estimate)
Total Weight – 6,750 lbs.

The total weight of the family and hitch and tongue (1,400 lbs.) is 100 lbs. under the load max of 1,500 lbs.
The total weight of 6,750 is 150 under the trucks max GVWR of 6,900 lbs.
Based on the number from the trailer weight below, a 12% trailer tongue weight falls under the 800 lbs. I reserved above.

2014 Forest River Grey Wolf 21rr
21rr Hitch Dry Weight – 693 lbs.
21rr Shipped Weight – 4,337 lbs.
Planned Cargo – 2,000 lbs.
Total Weight – 6,337 lbs.
12% Hitch Weight – 761 lbs. (estimate)

The total weight of both vehicles is 13,087 lbs. 413 lbs. under my max GCVW of 13,500 lbs.
This isn’t ideal at 10% I would like to be at, but still under.

So do my numbers look right, am I on the right track?

 

[NHguy]

I've been where your at with a 1/2 ton at the payload limit.
I think your on the right track, but would like to add some points.

Published hitch weights are not reality, but it is a toy hauler so with the toys in the back you could be right there or even under. (not necessarily a good thing) No toys and maybe expect on 150-250 lbs over published hitch weight.

In your research you may have noticed 1/2 ton owners adding airbags, better shocks, and LT tires. These items will make towing more comfortable and highly recommended.

I assume your getting WDH, get one with active sway control, worth the money.

Good luck

 

[jjump]

Yes, I have my eye on the Equalizer WDH with Sway Control.....

Not sure if that is the same as active sway control, but I am on the right track I assume.

 

[14hemiexpress]

The number look right to me. Your being cautious with your numbers and I like that it's better to assume high and be happy when it's under. It really sucks being that close to Max because it's hard to add stuff you realized you needed, and 400 can be eaten up quickly. Like stated get a good WD hitch(about 80lbs) and sway control, better tires will be the biggest help imo. You don't have to go all out and get E rated tires mostly because the stock rims are lt rims. Just pick some tires that are "extra load" or D rated and you'll be happy. The XL or D tires are 6-8ply and run on 50-60 psi witch is safer for your wheels.

To sum up my rant your numbers look spot on and your under the max of your truck (assuming you use a WD and have brake controler) and at the end of the day that's what truely matters.

 

[14hemiexpress]

Yes, I have my eye on the Equalizer WDH with Sway Control.....

Not sure if that is the same as active sway control, but I am on the right track I assume.

The sway control is basically a shock and it allows you to turn slow but if I trys to "jerk" it will really slow that down and keep the trailer under control (think dirt bikes or 4wheelers with steering stablizers) , it's a very good idea.

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

Just for shots and goggles what are the numbers for the 25rr? Airlifts and a good cargo balance might get you that floorplan. That and the Wolf is fairly low profile. I watch half tons and less yank them around all day. It's great that yer under yer payload on the sticker but, just an opinion, sometimes going with combined axle ratings can give a little wiggle room. Regardless of choice you've definitely done your research and are on the right track. Have fun at the show!

 

[jjump]

The 25rr is at a dry hitch weight of 857, 4697 dry, and using my numbers 6697 loaded, at a 13% hitch weight of 803.

The numbers are close, even the pricing on a unit in stock is doable, but the extra length and numbers....man I would hate to find out the hard way it is not doable.

 

[NHguy]

Yes, I have my eye on the Equalizer WDH with Sway Control.....

Not sure if that is the same as active sway control, but I am on the right track I assume.

Yes

The 25rr is at a dry hitch weight of 857, 4697 dry, and using my numbers 6697 loaded, at a 13% hitch weight of 803.

The numbers are close, even the pricing on a unit in stock is doable, but the extra length and numbers....man I would hate to find out the hard way it is not doable.

I agree, that's what leads many including myself at looking at upgrading to a 3/4 ton or higher.

 

[cc rider]

I feel your pain!. I am in the process of trying to trade my 14 big horn in for the same reasons. My payload is only 1300. I thought i would only have a small trailer and a boat when i bought the truck a year ago. Now, i want bigger toys. Shoulda got a ford f150 and had a payload of 3000 Dont forget to add the weights of any accessories to the trailer. The battery and propane tanks, etc. are not included in the dry weight from what i have read! Sounds like you know what youre doing though. Its your decision. You can basically be close and try and manage your setup all the time (if youre only pulling a few times a year which most do, its good. But if youre using it every week.....). Or you can settle for something smaller. Or u can trade for a a 3/4 ton Ive been trying to find a 26' th with a hitch weight of 700 or less. There are a couple (and I do mean only a couple). But, I didnt care for the interior on them (livin lite TH). Good luck

Ok all, I have posted a few times over the past year, and I have done as much research as I can to understand towing capabilities, tongue weights, GVWR’s, etc.

I believe I have asked the right questions and have armed myself with as much knowledge as possible to dive into the purchase of a Toy Hauler.

After many months of research and online shopping, and my second RV show coming up this weekend, I know what to look for, and I am ready to make the dive.

I have narrowed my search down to either the Forest River Grey Wolf 19rr or 21rr, based on weights, length’s, cost, etc. I know there are similar units from other supplies, even Forest River, but then the cost starts to go up, or the weights start to go up.

I am really pickled by the 25rr, but the extra little weight, and added length just don’t make the decision comfortable for me, but I like the 25rr layout better than the 21rr, but not sure I want to chance it. Especially due to the fact that I am likely going to have to travel outside of Pittsburgh to get my unit, and get it at a decent price.

So, here is where I am at. I used the figures from a 21rr, if I go to the 19rr, they are a bit less, so I will be OK. Using the tools from RAM, and my VIN number lookup, I think I got it figured out.

Though I have found an error between the Ram Towing website and the cargo sticker. The note for “payload” calls out anything in the bed of the truck, and the “sticker” calls out the total weight of cargo and occupants, that is the figure I am using.

I also plan to load the family and truck as I would for a weekend, and get it weighed on a CAT scale before I purchase anything.

2014 RAM 1500
Truck – 5,350 lbs
Family – 600 lbs ( we are under this, but I left it like this for growth, and that is what the calculator uses)
Trailer Hitch and Tongue – 800 lbs. (estimate)
Total Weight – 6,750 lbs.

The total weight of the family and hitch and tongue (1,400 lbs.) is 100 lbs. under the load max of 1,500 lbs.
The total weight of 6,750 is 150 under the trucks max GVWR of 6,900 lbs.
Based on the number from the trailer weight below, a 12% trailer tongue weight falls under the 800 lbs. I reserved above.

2014 Forest River Grey Wolf 21rr
21rr Hitch Dry Weight – 693 lbs.
21rr Shipped Weight – 4,337 lbs.
Planned Cargo – 2,000 lbs.
Total Weight – 6,337 lbs.
12% Hitch Weight – 761 lbs. (estimate)

The total weight of both vehicles is 13,087 lbs. 413 lbs. under my max GCVW of 13,500 lbs.
This isn’t ideal at 10% I would like to be at, but still under.

So do my numbers look right, am I on the right track?

 

[audio1der]

With a toy hauler, I promise you that tongue weight is artificially low, and you will be over payload.
TH's are 3/4T territory.

 

[StevoTee]

Another way you can look at it (which will probably put you over), is to take the dry hitch weight / dry vehicle weight to give you the tongue %. Apply that % to the GVWR of the trailer and that should give you close to what your max tongue weight will ever be. This will probably put you over your trucks GVWR.

To give you some comparison numbers, I tow a 7335 GVWR trailer with my truck. I've calculated the tongue weight to be 377lb, 1174lb, 1617lb (no quad, 1 quad, 2 quads). The quads are loaded on the front of the trailer, hence the large increase in tongue weight when loaded.

With those loads, I am over my GVWR when I have a single quad loaded, but still under the GCVWR and GAWR. I did install airlift air bags and have E rated tires (usually inflated to 70 PSI), which make the ride acceptable.

Looks like you're calculating correctly and running the numbers like you should. Calculate and think too much about it and you'll talk youself into a new truck.

 

[jjump]

Hence my dilemma, I know I can manage this with a 19rr, even a 21rr, and my hesitation to even look at a 25rr.

However, my "plan" is to never load to the max, CAT scale it empty to see what I can load, and to try to load over the trailer axle to reduce the sway possibilities, and trailer tongue weights.

A new 1500 in a year or two with better gearing might be an option, but going to a 2500 is not.

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

How often are you going to be using this and what toys are you hauling? Reason I ask is that load behind the trailer axles goes a long way to managing tongue weight regardless of length.

 

[14hemiexpress]

How often are you going to be using this and what toys are you hauling? Reason I ask is that load behind the trailer axles goes a long way to managing tongue weight regardless of length.

If it goes far enough behind the axle it could even lighten the tounge weight.

 

[jjump]

I would estimate 10 times a summer for it's use, plus, I am almost sure that my in-laws will "borrow" it a few times a summer also.

Of those 10 trip, I would say 8 of them will be be with quads, most likely my can-am renegade (@ 700lbs) or if I take just the kids it will be just their quads @400 lbs or so.

Then all the gear and associated equipment.

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

I'd say go with the 21 if you can live with the floorplan. IMHO you could get away with the 25 for as often as you'll tow but with the in-laws making use of it probably best to avoid the extra worry factor. [emoji56]
That 25 is sweet, though....[emoji48]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

 

[blrmkrl83]

You will probably be over your GVW no matter what trailer you get, but I personally don't think it's that big of a deal. If you put air bags in and use a WD hitch the truck can definitely handle it. My '11 QC 4x4 Outdoorsman is listed at 5248 lbs. with a GVW of 6700 lbs. I weighed it and with me(265 lbs.), full 32 gal. gas tank, and about 100-125 lbs. of crap it was 6080 lbs. That left me with only 620 lbs. available. Not much. With my 27' TT I am at 6760 lbs. and 12,900 total. However, the rear axle rating is 3900 lbs. and with the TT I am only at 3340 lbs. With the Airlift air bags at 30 lbs. pressure and a WD hitch there is only a little squat and it handles just fine. When I weighed mine at a truck stop it was just $9.50 for the truck and just another $1.00 when I came back with the trailer later that day.