Running Rich P219B Out of ideas??

[Oliver Klosehauf]

2013 RAM 1500 5.7 Sport 6 speed
I've been chasing a rough idle and shutter at speed. I have the CEL and P219B. It began after I installed new exhaust manifolds and new O2 sensors. I am not sure that I have replaced with the correct sensor(s) on the passenger side (bank 2).
I found conflicting information about which O2 sensors to use. It seems to be dependent on model, transmission, 4wd vs 2wd, engine, cab and bed length. I used this information that shows 3 of the 4 as the same. The only one that is different is Bank 2 downstream.
I've pulled spark plugs on the passenger side (bank 2) but none of them are black or sooty. The exhaust on that side smells rich and blows carbon sometimes.
There are no cylinder misfires and no other codes. I have monitored the O2 voltages and they seem fine. The only thing that I believe is off is the ADAP short term.
It seems that way too much fuel is being dumped in on bank 2 but I don't know why. Any help would be appreciated. I do have a decent topdon diagnostic tool. I can get any info if needed. I would appreciate any help. I don't want to take this to my local Chrysler garage as they will just throw parts at it.

 

[HarryS]

You'll have to put a live data monitor on the o2 sensors to find out which one isn't working. Can't be a rear sensor, 'cause that only looks at cat efficiency. Has to be a front one that's reading lean, and causing the ECM to richen up the fuel.

 

[Oliver Klosehauf]

Harry,
Thanks for the fast reply. I can get a trace of the O2 sensors. Is there anything I should look for? I'm assuming idle is good enough as it runs rough independent of the engine RPM.
Does it make sense that it would use the same sensor for upstream and downstream on bank 1 but 2 different sensors on bank 2?

 

[Ken226]

Have you checked the torque on your intake manifold bolts lately.

When I checked mine, they were finger tight.

 

[Wild one]

Check your intake manifold bolts

This hasn't been talked about for awhile,but check your intake manifold bolts.They call for 108 in-lbs or roughly 9 ft-lbs of torque,and they should be checked at least yearly,as they do loosen up. I've been doing mine at least twice a year on all 3 of of my hemi equipped vehicles.They should be...

www.ramforum.com

 

[GTyankee]

I would not be surprised if NTK made the O2 sensors for the 2013 Ram 5.7

RockAuto page

2013 RAM 1500 5.7L V8 Oxygen (O2) Sensor | Shop Now at RockAuto

Exhaust & Emission Parts and More for Your 2013 RAM 1500 at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

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info page

More Information for NTK 23161

NGK is a company that manufactures spark plugs and oxygen sensors, and NTK is a brand of NGK that specializes in sensors.

 

[62Blazer]

The downstream sensors should not be causing any engine performance issues. They really only monitor catalytic efficiency. The code is most likely being triggered by readings from one of the upstream O2 sensors. You need to look at the short term (STFT) and long term (LTFT) data and see what they are reading. Ideally they should be 0%, but would expect them to be between -10% and +10% at most but preferably lower. If the trim is a negative number, that means the engine is running rich and the sensor is directing it to reduce fuel levels by that %. If it reads a positive number it is running lean and saying increase the fuel by that much.
Basically, if bank 2 upstream sensor is reading something like -25% it is sensing the engine is running rich and trying to pull fuel back.

 

[HarryS]

Harry,
Thanks for the fast reply. I can get a trace of the O2 sensors. Is there anything I should look for? I'm assuming idle is good enough as it runs rough independent of the engine RPM.
Does it make sense that it would use the same sensor for upstream and downstream on bank 1 but 2 different sensors on bank 2?

I would not think the same sensor would be on the down and upside. I would compare readings from both upstream sensors. I ran your truck thru mopar parts giant and it only shows 2 sensors. I believe you should be using the 640's in the front, and the 171's in the rear.

 

[Oliver Klosehauf]

Maybe the diagram is incorrect. I could try changing both front to 640 and rear to 171. Is there any way to tell them apart?

 

[Oliver Klosehauf]

The downstream sensors should not be causing any engine performance issues. They really only monitor catalytic efficiency. The code is most likely being triggered by readings from one of the upstream O2 sensors. You need to look at the short term (STFT) and long term (LTFT) data and see what they are reading. Ideally they should be 0%, but would expect them to be between -10% and +10% at most but preferably lower. If the trim is a negative number, that means the engine is running rich and the sensor is directing it to reduce fuel levels by that %. If it reads a positive number it is running lean and saying increase the fuel by that much.
Basically, if bank 2 upstream sensor is reading something like -25% it is sensing the engine is running rich and trying to pull fuel back.

62 Blazer thanks for the clarification. I will compare these.

 

[Oliver Klosehauf]

Check your intake manifold bolts

This hasn't been talked about for awhile,but check your intake manifold bolts.They call for 108 in-lbs or roughly 9 ft-lbs of torque,and they should be checked at least yearly,as they do loosen up. I've been doing mine at least twice a year on all 3 of of my hemi equipped vehicles.They should be...

www.ramforum.com

I checked that all my intake bolts were tight. I also ran smoke machine in vacuum circuit and found no leaks.
Thanks for all your suggestions.