When Is It Ok To Change To Synthetic?

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Dean2

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Speaking of bad advice/bullshizit...........Bearing clearances and ring/cylinder/piston clearances haven't really changed much in the last 40 years, and those are the parts that rely heavily on lubrication to survive. Besides, the thought of building a tighter engine just so you can use lower viscocity oil is just plain dumb.... The lower viscosity oil is used because it can be used - The oil's ability to not shear under loads and heat has increased with oil technology, and oil that flows easier(lower viscosity) produces less frictional losses resulting in more efficiency, and it also carries more heat away from critical parts resulting in longer life. This is evidenced in synthetic (nylon-based) oils...they flow at lower temps, breakdown at much higher temps, and do a better job at integrating with additive packages to remain usable for longer intervals.
Well said. Like you I am amazed at some of the nonsense that gets posted on these sites.
 

goatdriver1957

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The general question is; "

When Is It Ok To Change To Synthetic?​


The general guide by a recent departed major auto maintenance 20 stall shop owner and 40 yr operator. The question came up regular and he would suggestion was.
Any vehicle (gas) with an Odo reading over 80K was suggested to stay with the standard dino oil grades, 10,20,30w/30,40s.
The '70, '80, '90 new engines years had begun to build heavy places of carbon hanging and sticking everywhere where oil is being splashed and squeezing thru passages.

Synthetics are slick, stays slick and when introduced to semi-hi mileage dino happy engines with 80k the carbon begins to dislodge in clumps and chunks (yes, at times the size of the black hole in a figure '9') when dealing with bearing surfaces and oil passage collection, that is huge and will cause failure in a short time.

It has been noted and seems when synthetics is introduced to average mid-mileage life engines, lub leaks do begin to appear at points that were being held closed by dirt and dino oils. Maybe that notion has be acknowledge, recognized and has been addressed with better engine seals since the Y2K.

With that, brings another subject area to maybe question, to give an extra thought, to not do an engine flush in/if entertaining a switch to synthetic lub? With my Jeep Grand LTD approaching mid life Odo reading, I will not be switching from Dino as per the suggestion of the above shop fellow.
 

Riccochet

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Speaking of bad advice/bullshizit...........Bearing clearances and ring/cylinder/piston clearances haven't really changed much in the last 40 years, and those are the parts that rely heavily on lubrication to survive. Besides, the thought of building a tighter engine just so you can use lower viscocity oil is just plain dumb.... The lower viscosity oil is used because it can be used - The oil's ability to not shear under loads and heat has increased with oil technology, and oil that flows easier(lower viscosity) produces less frictional losses resulting in more efficiency, and it also carries more heat away from critical parts resulting in longer life. This is evidenced in synthetic (nylon-based) oils...they flow at lower temps, breakdown at much higher temps, and do a better job at integrating with additive packages to remain usable for longer intervals.

Spot on.
 

1979PowerWagon360

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DEFINITELY okay for synthetic now and I never understand why people want to go against the manufacturer's recommendation for oil viscosity.
 

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DEFINITELY okay for synthetic now and I never understand why people want to go against the manufacturer's recommendation for oil viscosity.
Generally speaking nothing changes internally on a given engine that warrants thinner oils. The only thing changing is CAFE standards. Thinner oils provide less resistance, which in turn increases efficiency, albeit a very low percentage. But when a manufacturer adds those small percentage increases across their fleet it adds up. It's a zero cost way to increase marketable efficiency.

But, if you look at some engines that have moved to thinner and thinner oils you can see an increase in certain failures along the way. Take the 3.6 Pentastar as an example. When it was introduced it used 5w30 and have very few cam / rocker failures. Then it moved to 5w20 and saw an increase in failures. Now running 0w20 and even higher reported rates of failures. Is it 100% the change in oil causing it? Probably not, but every time they reduced the viscosity failures went up. Coincidence, causation, meaningless? Did their manufacturing standards change at the same time? Who knows. We, as consumers, only see what we have access to. And when you can correlate one action with a result it's hard to deny.
 

Andrei20

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Hello. I couldn't find the answer to this. 2022 Ram 2500 6.7. I am about to change the oil for the first time as soon as my filter arrives in the mail. I am going with Rotella as Valvoline Blue is hard to find here. Is it OK to go full synthetic with only 5500 miles on the engine?
We tow a camper for work where ever we are sent across the country. Which would be better protection for towing Rotella T5 10w/30 or Rotella T6 5w/40? Thank you.
Synthetic is ok and much better anytime. I'd go with the 5w-40, thicker film between the parts, especially when towing. And I'd do the oil changes around every 250 engine hrs, no matter the milage.
 

Andrei20

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Generally speaking nothing changes internally on a given engine that warrants thinner oils. The only thing changing is CAFE standards. Thinner oils provide less resistance, which in turn increases efficiency, albeit a very low percentage. But when a manufacturer adds those small percentage increases across their fleet it adds up. It's a zero cost way to increase marketable efficiency.

But, if you look at some engines that have moved to thinner and thinner oils you can see an increase in certain failures along the way. Take the 3.6 Pentastar as an example. When it was introduced it used 5w30 and have very few cam / rocker failures. Then it moved to 5w20 and saw an increase in failures. Now running 0w20 and even higher reported rates of failures. Is it 100% the change in oil causing it? Probably not, but every time they reduced the viscosity failures went up. Coincidence, causation, meaningless? Did their manufacturing standards change at the same time? Who knows. We, as consumers, only see what we have access to. And when you can correlate one action with a result it's hard to deny.
They're all (I mean the car manufacturers) competing in fuel efficiency to sell a "more fuel efficient car", but it comes at a cost, more wear from thinner oils. They want the people to come back to them for a new car after the first car craps out at 200 thousand km.
 

Sherman Bird

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Hello. I couldn't find the answer to this. 2022 Ram 2500 6.7. I am about to change the oil for the first time as soon as my filter arrives in the mail. I am going with Rotella as Valvoline Blue is hard to find here. Is it OK to go full synthetic with only 5500 miles on the engine?
We tow a camper for work where ever we are sent across the country. Which would be better protection for towing Rotella T5 10w/30 or Rotella T6 5w/40? Thank you.
HURRY! Get that oil over to synthetic NOW!
 

Sherman Bird

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Hello. I couldn't find the answer to this. 2022 Ram 2500 6.7. I am about to change the oil for the first time as soon as my filter arrives in the mail. I am going with Rotella as Valvoline Blue is hard to find here. Is it OK to go full synthetic with only 5500 miles on the engine?
We tow a camper for work where ever we are sent across the country. Which would be better protection for towing Rotella T5 10w/30 or Rotella T6 5w/40? Thank you.
It's very subjective... all this prattle about which brand of oil to run. There is nobody who can accurately give you dead-on correct advice for your unique circumstances. I believe in fully synthetic oil due to it's superior high temperature stability. That's the OIL itself. But, what about additives? There are anti-corrosives, moisture control additives, anti foam, yada yada yada.

Here, in Houston, Texas, our sub tropical clime makes it a sage idea to use a synthetic oil. Beyond that, the additives are where the biggest differences are. I will say that straying away from the assigned weight for a given application for a particular vehicle's mandate by the manufacturer may not be a very good idea.

The wisdom I got from engineers at GM was to pay attention to API ratings on the oil and know what they mean.
Nowadays, We have "API SP" on oil. What does that mean? Read up on it for your own edification.

Keep this in mind, also: In many cases, oil filtration is done only at lower pressure/ RPM. As the engine's RPM increases, the oil bypasses the filter via a bypass valve (many times, this valve is built into the filter). The volume of oil is also a factor as to keeping particulate debris in suspension... thus the admonition for running the engine to warm up before draining the old oil for an oil change.

Keeping the oil from overheating with an external cooler is a good idea to prevent additive and oil base break down from thermal extremes.

I could tell you about all of my experiences and my observations of others' vehicles which I've serviced in 47 years of being a professional technician. Take away from my own experience (Limited AND subjective) has been that the long run success of most vehicles has been regular oil AND filter changes in relatively short time/ mileage span. I NEVER go beyond 6,000 miles between changes for my own vehicles, synthetic or not. I aim for 5,000 miles, and give myself a buffer due to life's fluctuations.

Peace and good luck!
 

SniperDroid

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I blew up a riding lawnmower engine, and the walk behind both in the same month, because I didn't change the oil. Since then, none of my vehicles have gone 5k without a proper oil change. Synthetic in the RAM.

P.S. Small equipment changed every spring.
 

Sherman Bird

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I blew up a riding lawnmower engine, and the walk behind both in the same month, because I didn't change the oil. Since then, none of my vehicles have gone 5k without a proper oil change. Synthetic in the RAM.

P.S. Small equipment changed every spring.
I NEVER change the oil in my EGO electric lawnmower! ;)
 

06 Dodge

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Since then, none of my vehicles have gone 5k without a proper oil change. Synthetic in the RAM.

5K on synthetic oil wowzers, back in the late 70's we could run just about any major brand of dino oil & Purolator or Fram oil filters for 3000-3500 miles...
 
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