Brake Controller

Valhakar said:

As for the highway I took I-8.

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Forgive me, as I am on the opposite end of the country, but you said tuscon to phoenix?

When I type in I-8, the maps show it either originating/ending where it intersects I-10 that runs between Tuscon and Phoenix.

Val
Did you measure voltage ?

The tech hooked it up to a test jig at the shop. I have not measured the voltage myself. I got in with the rig Friday and was hit by Ebola-bird-SARS. I have been hold up inside all weekend.

Only 'emergency' test I did was to slam on the brakes at 20 MPH in the parking lot at LaMesa RV to test my load tie downs. Kingpin hit but didn't really make that much noise.

drittal said:

Forgive me, as I am on the opposite end of the country, but you said tuscon to phoenix?

When I type in I-8, the maps show it either originating/ending where it intersects I-10 that runs between Tuscon and Phoenix.

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I live in the west valley. I-8 to 85 north to I-10. No way I was doing Phoenix rush hour on the Friday before Christmas in a new rig while sick.

I may be a crazy a-hole, but I am not stupid.

-Dave

And there you have it folks.......

No voltage test and an "emergency" stop at 20 mph

Valhakar said:

The tech hooked it up to a test jig at the shop. I have not measured the voltage myself. I got in with the rig Friday and was hit by Ebola-bird-SARS. I have been hold up inside all weekend.

Only 'emergency' test I did was to slam on the brakes at 20 MPH in the parking lot at LaMesa RV to test my load tie downs. Kingpin hit but didn't really make that much noise.

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Valhakar said:

There could be a range of trucks with the issue. Mine does not currently have the issue.

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Yes, your truck has the "issue". It is Chrysler's design in the ITBM that is available in all 1500, 2500, and standard in most 3500 RAMs beginning in model year 2015 and continues with 2016 production.

Chrysler's design does not allow more than 70% of braking effort to be provided to the trailer at vehicle speeds under 30 MPH. The manual slider does not over-ride the 70% rule preventing proper setting of the gain. I don't think the ITBM provides 100% at speeds above 30 MPH but I can't provide that until spring.

70% equates to about 7 volts output (measured), depending on what your trailer's brakes require for a forceful stop determines if you will experience the ITBM braking design.

I have two Dexter 7K axles with 12x2 brakes at each wheel on my Montana. I need 10.5 volts to get forceful braking action, 7 volts provides a drag.

As painful as it may be you should review the entire thread to gain a full understanding of the issue and how it could relate to your equipment.

drittal said:

But how does it do under emergency situations?

It was never said the brakes don't work with factory brake controller, they just don't work as well as people expect coming from older models with built in controllers or others who came from an aftermarket controller.

Have you seen the data BossHogg collected comparing older style integrated vs current? Or even vs a Prodigy controller?

Boss, could he be experiencing better braking performance from having more axles, and 7k axles. Maybe smaller brakes vs yours??

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Now I understand, his truck did not have the goose-neck prep package and the dealer added the 7 pin to the bed.

I looked up his fiver and 7K axles come in an option package (Voltage Luxury Interior Package) which he didn't make mention of. I couldn't find data on the standard axles but it does come with three axles.

I just bought a 2015 1500 big horn that I'll be using as a primary tow vehicle. I'll be towing about 7K of travel trailer. It sounds like reading through this thread(all 29 pages) that there really isn't a fix for this other than the explanation Boss has had on the intentional operation of the controller.

Has there been any updates here?

BossHogg said:

Yes, your truck has the "issue". It is Chrysler's design in the ITBM that is available in all 1500, 2500, and standard in most 3500 RAMs beginning in model year 2015 and continues with 2016 production.

Chrysler's design does not allow more than 70% of braking effort to be provided to the trailer at vehicle speeds under 30 MPH. The manual slider does not over-ride the 70% rule preventing proper setting of the gain. I don't think the ITBM provides 100% at speeds above 30 MPH but I can't provide that until spring.

70% equates to about 7 volts output (measured), depending on what your trailer's brakes require for a forceful stop determines if you will experience the ITBM braking design.

I have two Dexter 7K axles with 12x2 brakes at each wheel on my Montana. I need 10.5 volts to get forceful braking action, 7 volts provides a drag.

As painful as it may be you should review the entire thread to gain a full understanding of the issue and how it could relate to your equipment.



Now I understand, his truck did not have the goose-neck prep package and the dealer added the 7 pin to the bed.

I looked up his fiver and 7K axles come in an option package (Voltage Luxury Interior Package) which he didn't make mention of. I couldn't find data on the standard axles but it does come with three axles.

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Are the 2014 ITBM affected as well?

BOSS,CC, DRITTAL and everyone else that has contributed meaningful info to this thread... THANKS !!!

Hopefully your continued efforts will bring about a change or fix.
For now, you have saved me from jumping from one mess to another. I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a 16 hemi because I wanted to be able to get the lifetime MaxCare & because I have lost confidence in my sig truck with all of the recalls and a previous issue that warranty covered.
Owning a Cummins power pickup always seemed out of reach for me, now that I have one, it seems that the good folks at Chrysler have messed up the dream.

For now I will just sit back and and watch how this pans out. If the MOPAR folks don't pull their collective heads out of the very dark place that they are in, I guess I'll find an old reliable low mileage blue oval 7.3 like I had before this. Mine gave me 15yrs and over 200k of trouble free time on the road.
No DEF etc. to fuss about.

cptwing said:

Are the 2014 ITBM affected as well?

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No. 2015+

Cpylot said:

Owning a Cummins power pickup always seemed out of reach for me, now that I have one, it seems that the good folks at Chrysler have messed up the dream.

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Have you considered a low mile used cummins? The ITBM issue is on 2015+ trucks.

Could always go the way BossHogg and others have and install a Prodigy brake controller too.

Don't let this little issue stop you. It's just a bump in the road.

drittal said:

Have you considered a low mile used cummins? The ITBM issue is on 2015+ trucks.

Could always go the way BossHogg and others have and install a Prodigy brake controller too.

Don't let this little issue stop you. It's just a bump in the road.

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No, the bump in the road is a prius you ran over because you couldn't stop your truck and trailer in time. Sorry I couldn't resist.

I've read the whole thread and subscribed, have a 2016 on the way. I don't see anyone confirming the same problem exists on 2016's. The part number has changed again for 2016.

Oh, and I looked into retrofitting a 2014 ITBM into a 2015 or 16, can't be done. One of the inputs is configured differently.

...does anyone know who makes the ITBM for Ram?

nasaland said:

I've read the whole thread and subscribed, have a 2016 on the way. I don't see anyone confirming the same problem exists on 2016's. The part number has changed again for 2016.

Oh, and I looked into retrofitting a 2014 ITBM into a 2015 or 16, can't be done. One of the inputs is configured differently.

...does anyone know who makes the ITBM for Ram?

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Continental makes the ITBM for Chrysler to Chrysler's requirements.

ITBM was redesigned for MY13 and was used in 2013 and 2014 production which had a newly designed electrical architecture introduced for the 2013 model year. The new architecture changed the traditional brake switch signal and made it impossible for after market trailer brake solutions until the after market developed an interface cable.

Chrysler again changed the brake signal back to traditional signaling but for an unknown reason (and also undocumented), designed a 70% maximum output from the ITBM at speeds below 30MPH. What makes this move more mysterious is the manual slide on the ITBM, typically used to set the gain of the ITBM's output, will not put out maximum braking, but is also limited to the 70% rule making setting your gain impossible as instructed by the owners' manual.

We are all waiting for something to happen from Chrysler, all that is needed is a software update. I was told by Chrysler, if a change was made, it would be introduced in the next RAM HD refresh now scheduled for 2019. That was before more noise about this issue.

Depending on what voltage your trailer's brakes require for forceful stopping determines if you will see the 70% rule issue. For example, my Montana needs 10.5 volts for a forceful stop, I'm out of luck. My utility trailer only need 6 volts, no problem, just difficult setting the gain.

The only good news is Prodigy made a cable that fits the factory ITBM connector to the Prodigy brake controllers.

Good info

I was aware of the redesign for MY13, it was carried over into MY14 also. The was a major change in MY15. This was the introduction of a signal directly from the antilock brake unit.

My13/14 used a switched 12V from the run/start relay on pin 2 of plug C1. It looks like MY15/16 now use the same pin as an input from the ABS module.

It also looks like the data monitoring the ITBM does might have changed and could possibly include brake system hyd. pressure.

Here's an interesting read: TRAILER BRAKE SYSTEM HAVING TRAILER GAIN OPTIMIZATION - Continental Automotive Systems, Inc.

Be sure to look at the pdf file, it gives a nice flow diagram.

Fervently following this thread...

the pdf file also has a decision tree

drittal said:

Have you considered a low mile used cummins? The ITBM issue is on 2015+ trucks.

Could always go the way BossHogg and others have and install a Prodigy brake controller too.

Don't let this little issue stop you. It's just a bump in the road.

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Check out my sig Truck, its a 14 3500 Cummins ordered exactly the way I wanted it and I only have 13K on it.
However, with the R46 track bar recall, a few other recalls and an unexpected 4WD module problem that left us stranded on a trip, I now don't want to own this thing without being able to get the lifetime MaxCare.
We normally keep our vehicles a LONG time, but these just seem to have to many integrated systems that can cause very expensive issues. My plan was to dump the 14 3500 CTD while it still holds a lot of value, and get the 16 3500 6.4 Hemi. I live in flat FL and won't ever be towing more than 14K, so it seemed like a good match. (& I can purchase the lifetime MaxCare on it)
The good folks at Chrysler group seem bound and determined to send me away.

Please don't misread me, every time that I get in my pickup I feel extremely fortunate, and love the ride and the way it pulls whatever I hook up to (& the brake controller works great ). I just think that when I pay this much for something, it should at least be as reliable as the 15 yr old truck with 200K miles that I sold when I bought this one.
I'll keep watching this thread to see if there is an acceptable resolution that does not require me to buy aftermarket parts to make the 2016 work the way it should the day it rolled of the line. I'm not in a big hurry.

Thanks again to all that are putting the extensive legwork in to get it resolved!

nasaland said:

Here's an interesting read: TRAILER BRAKE SYSTEM HAVING TRAILER GAIN OPTIMIZATION - Continental Automotive Systems, Inc.

Be sure to look at the pdf file, it gives a nice flow diagram.

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Interesting read but I don't get it, what are they doing in the patent application that has been done in integrated proportion trailer braking systems since first introduced back around the turn of this century (rhetorical). There was even a company that had an after market system that tapped the brake line to get braking effort. I think they disappeared due to liabilities.

If you look back at my post #241 (http://www.ramforum.com/f119/brake_controller-71708/index25.html#post1147935) where I measured the proportional output of the ITBM you can clearly see it isn't proportional at all. In the patent application, figure 3 indicated a proportional output. To bad the ITBM isn't working the way this patent describes. How could Chrysler break something so simple in operation? Unbelievable.

You're right BossHogg, this is nothing new. The only new factor might be the inclusion of the ABS module signal.

Based on user's input I can agree that it does not work like the patent describes. There is also no mention of the manual slider in the document, which they totally screwed up and should be independent of their algorithm.

The document never mentions the use of the signal from the ABS module? The major change for the MY15 was the addition of this signal. I'm also not sure where they are getting the brake pressure from, unless it's sent over the CanBus.

Like I said, the only change starting with MY15 was the ABS. Is it possible the signal from the ABS IS the brake pressure?

Based on the date of the patent I'm guessing this paper did not include MY14 but started with MY15 and the change to include the ABS signal.

Does anyone know if the brake pressure can be read from the bus?

Has anyone confirmed that MY16 has the same problem? I mentioned earlier that the part # had changed again.

nasaland said:

Has anyone confirmed that MY16 has the same problem? I mentioned earlier that the part # had changed again.

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If the ITBM part number changed for 2016, then my dealer didn't look it up correctly. What is the new part number for the 2016 ITBM?

BossHogg said:

If the ITBM part number changed for 2016, then my dealer didn't look it up correctly. What is the new part number for the 2016 ITBM?

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82215040 2016 Ram 3500 - Carriers & Cargo Hauling Accessories | Mopar


Not sure what the effective start date is.

My build should be starting in the next week or 2, hopefully when it's delivered in March I'll have the new part number.


...just thinking - this has got to be a relatively simple firmware fix, hoping the new part number reflects something. The pinouts are still the same so if the 2016 has different firmware it could be retrofitted to a 2015.