6.4 vs 5.7

15BlueStreak · Feb 10, 2017

yoda said:
I've said this before but in my opinion the transmission gear ratio thing is way overblown.
If it were not for the Ike Gauntlet video 99% of people would never notice the second gear ratio thing.
Could the ratios be better? yes, would it benefit from an 8 speed yes.
It was one test under specific load, grade, altitude.
In different conditions it may benefit from the steeper 2nd gear.
If the trucks were loaded differently, different grade, altitude, and none of the trucks could hold, or pull it in 3rd, The 6.4 would probably be faster than the Chev. or Ford pulling in 2nd.
If I were planning on pulling at max, in the mountains, I would no doubt have gotten the Cummins.

I completely agree with this. Also this was with an early design model. There recent test of the ram power wagon did not limit the truck at all. Granted I believe it was less weight but they had it
Tached out pretty good and it never limited it's rpm. So I believe the program is different now. I woukd like to see a new test done. The shootout of the big 3 gassers done by pickup trucks.com had the ram winning several tests over ford and gm. That is really the comparison I went on when researching before buying. I am a ford guy but I do go with what is better and in 2015 the ram was the best all around truck I felt at the time and that's what I bought. I do miss the ford truck but this ram checks a lot of boxes for me.

Nathan

Andrew09HEMI · Feb 10, 2017

Why do you, OP, constantly post the same **** all over the forums regarding the 6.4? Honestly, I'm really curious to know why you have a hard on for the 6.4 numbers compared to the 5.7? It's only half the story and it's been mentioned all over this thread and every other but you still feel the need to justify your numbers making you feel all good inside for your choice. I don't know where you also get this theory that everyone thinks the 6.4 is so special. It's a purpose built gas motor in a heavy 3/4-1ton truck. It's not some high horsepower high torque SRT motor. It does it's job and well and that's it.
Also, the 6.4 option is not $1500 anymore. I don't remember the number but I'm sure someone can chime in on what it was on their truck.
People buy the 6.4 over the 5.7 cause they like the extra power, lower rpm delivery of that power and the educated ones buy it cause its purpose built. I almost bought a 5.7 2500 before my 6.4 but I found a lower mileage 6.4 for similar money. For my needs a 5.7 is more than enough but who knows what my needs are 6-12 mths from now. Not everyone wants to spend 10k more for a diesel, so even if the 6.4 was $1500 option still that's far more easier to come out of pocket for than a cummins. When I was shopping the 5.7 trucks were usually 3-4K less so than we can now discuss resale value over the 5.7.
Again, OP, if you don't like the 6.4 for whatever reason, don't buy one. Just stop flooding both ram forums with your constant ******** bashing and justification by numbers. It's quite clear you're the only one that really cares. ***** just annoying like a nat on a summer night.

drittal · Feb 10, 2017

15BlueStreak said:
I completely agree with this. Also this was with an early design model. There recent test of the ram power wagon did not limit the truck at all. Granted I believe it was less weight but they had it
Tached out pretty good and it never limited it's rpm. So I believe the program is different now.

I can tell you it was present in my '15 towing 11-12k up 8% grades from 4,000-8,000' of elevation.

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15BlueStreak · Feb 10, 2017

drittal said:
I can tell you it was present in my '15 towing 11-12k up 8% grades from 4,000-8,000' of elevation.

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I see. I have not had that much behind mine nor have I been in the mountains. Mine is a 15. I wonder if the 16 or 17 have experienced it. It would be nice if they did do away with it and let the dog eat. None of the others seem to be worried about it.

mtofell · Feb 10, 2017

yoda said:
I've said this before but in my opinion the transmission gear ratio thing is way overblown.
If it were not for the Ike Gauntlet video 99% of people would never notice the second gear ratio thing.
Could the ratios be better? yes, would it benefit from an 8 speed yes.
It was one test under specific load, grade, altitude.
In different conditions it may benefit from the steeper 2nd gear.
If the trucks were loaded differently, different grade, altitude, and none of the trucks could hold, or pull it in 3rd, The 6.4 would probably be faster than the Chev. or Ford pulling in 2nd.
If I were planning on pulling at max, in the mountains, I would no doubt have gotten the Cummins.

I don't know what or where an Ike Gauntlet is but can tell you my truck shifts like total **** while towing. The 1-2 gap is just stupid.

I guess I've always wanted to be "the 1%" :favorites13:

yoda · Feb 10, 2017

mtofell said:
I don't know what or where an Ike Gauntlet is but can tell you my truck shifts like total **** while towing. The 1-2 gap is just stupid.

I guess I've always wanted to be "the 1%"

How heavy is your trailer?

Ratket · Feb 10, 2017

Mate that 6.4 to a set of 4:56"s gears and be happy . mds would activate easier yielding better gas mileage. Or buy a 5.7 and get ur self a Cai/exhaust/tuner and have the same hp/tq numbers as the 6.4 with no mds. 6.4"s are more available on lots and you could prolly find a better deal on one. So it's up to you. What cha gonna do? Or just hold out till ford ecoboosts that 5.0 and shoves it in their HD trucks. I hear tundras are nice too, Don't forget Titans have a cummins option now too.

drittal · Feb 10, 2017

15BlueStreak said:
I see. I have not had that much behind mine nor have I been in the mountains. Mine is a 15. I wonder if the 16 or 17 have experienced it. It would be nice if they did do away with it and let the dog eat. None of the others seem to be worried about it.

It needs to be there to protect the transmission. Shifting creates heat, heat kills transmissions. The large spacing between 1st and 2nd creates a condition where under the right load, elevation, and grade conditions the transmission doesn't provide enough torque multiplication to hold 2nd gear, it shifts down to 1st and it easily accelerates back up to redline and would shift into second again just to repeat the cycle. The gear hold prevents this to save wear and tear.

I have experienced it 3x. He first time was in a 8% with numerous 25mph switch backs. I was able to accelerate out and up to second then would have to let off for the next curve. After a few times it just held me in 1st.

The second time was at the very top of a pass, but traffic and speed limits meant I didn't fall back much.

The third was a long straight pass of 8%. The truck shifted down to 1st, pulled to redline and held there for a moment then slowly he RPMs fell at a steady rate down to 4200 and stayed there until it leveled out and the truck accelerated normally and shifted into second and continued to accelerate. I did pass a coke truck even when in gear hold. So that was funny.

I was pretty heavy the last 2 times. Being right at GCWR of the 6.4 with 3.73. It's amazing how much heavier an RV gets when you start packing in enough stuff for a week of dry camping along with 2 RZRs, gear and fuel.

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SwollenMonkey16 · Feb 10, 2017

Andrew09HEMI said:
Why do you, OP, constantly post the same **** all over the forums regarding the 6.4? Honestly, I'm really curious to know why you have a hard on for the 6.4 numbers compared to the 5.7? It's only half the story and it's been mentioned all over this thread and every other but you still feel the need to justify your numbers making you feel all good inside for your choice. I don't know where you also get this theory that everyone thinks the 6.4 is so special. It's a purpose built gas motor in a heavy 3/4-1ton truck. It's not some high horsepower high torque SRT motor. It does it's job and well and that's it.
Also, the 6.4 option is not $1500 anymore. I don't remember the number but I'm sure someone can chime in on what it was on their truck.
People buy the 6.4 over the 5.7 cause they like the extra power, lower rpm delivery of that power and the educated ones buy it cause its purpose built. I almost bought a 5.7 2500 before my 6.4 but I found a lower mileage 6.4 for similar money. For my needs a 5.7 is more than enough but who knows what my needs are 6-12 mths from now. Not everyone wants to spend 10k more for a diesel, so even if the 6.4 was $1500 option still that's far more easier to come out of pocket for than a cummins. When I was shopping the 5.7 trucks were usually 3-4K less so than we can now discuss resale value over the 5.7.
Again, OP, if you don't like the 6.4 for whatever reason, don't buy one. Just stop flooding both ram forums with your constant ******** bashing and justification by numbers. It's quite clear you're the only one that really cares. ***** just annoying like a nat on a summer night.

Well said bro. He's just trying to make himself feel better bc he has a 5.7 who cares they're both hemi motors and built to last.

SouthTexan · Feb 10, 2017

yillbs said:
Can someone explain to me the overall benefits of the 6.4 over the 5.7. I'm reading tons of reviews regarding how awesome the 6.4 is, but isn't the horsepower / torque only 10-15 points higher than the 5.7? The history isn't there, and it's really not that much more of a power house over it's smaller brother.

What gives ?

Benefits? Well, for less than $1,400 you get 27 hp more peak power, 29 lb-ft more peak torque, intake runners for greater part throttle power/torque, 1,000 lb more GVWR, about 1,000 lb more payload, about 2,000 lb more tow rating, and the addition of MDS which could save you fuel costs if geared right. Although, most of that will be recouped since the 6.4L engine option will command a higher price on resale/trade-in than the 5.7L.

That is a bargain considering the Ram Box option is $1,300 and the 8.4 Nav is $1,100.

Iron Outlaw · Feb 10, 2017

I've learned there always is gonna be something bigger faster and stronger with any purchase. I love my 6.4 2500. I tow and haul 5-6 days a week and have put over 12000 miles on it since October. I may haul 3000 pounds of sacrete or rock in the bed one day and pull 10000 pounds of shingles and dump trailer the next. On weekends I may take a trip with the family and get over 15mpgs or pull the fishing boat to the lake. I love the off-road ability with limited slip and 4x4 along with the awesome ride height. The power is great for what it is and at the end of the week when I'm cashing checks from the jobs I did with it, I don't care if the extra $1500 I payed over a 5.7 is worth it.

mtofell · Feb 11, 2017

yoda said:
How heavy is your trailer?

11K 5th wheel. And I know I should have got a diesel. I would have got a diesel if I had that 5th when I bought my truck. But that doesn't change the fact that the moron at Ram that set the ratios on that tranny should be flogged in the town square. Or, more to the point, the bean counter that didn't want to design a new tranny and used ratios intended for a diesel motor should be.

For how much/often I tow it's not a huge deal and really only comes up under certain/rare circumstances. Mainly, up a moderate grade and/or with winding turns. Basically, I just cant drive between about 30-40. The choice is wind out 1st or lug 2nd (and hammer back into 1st).

I've made the choice to just live with it and may get a diesel at some point. It's really not a huge deal for my usage of the truck (wish I got out to camp more often). I just take exception to being told it's not a problem and just something I dreamed up after watching someone do a test. Let me tell you. It's very real and a HUGE negative to an otherwise pretty nice towing truck.

theviking · Feb 11, 2017

SouthTexan said:
Benefits? Well, for less than $1,400 you get 27 hp more peak power, 29 lb-ft more peak torque, intake runners for greater part throttle power/torque, 1,000 lb more GVWR, about 1,000 lb more payload, about 2,000 lb more tow rating, and the addition of MDS which could save you fuel costs if geared right. Although, most of that will be recouped since the 6.4L engine option will command a higher price on resale/trade-in than the 5.7L.

That is a bargain considering the Ram Box option is $1,300 and the 8.4 Nav is $1,100.

Plus it's overbuilt in many ways compared to the 5.7. Better block, crank, pistons, valves, heads, cooling, etc.

Bigdaddy · Feb 11, 2017

I had the 2500 5.7L and glad I did the trade.

yoda · Feb 11, 2017

mtofell said:
11K 5th wheel. And I know I should have got a diesel. I would have got a diesel if I had that 5th when I bought my truck. But that doesn't change the fact that the moron at Ram that set the ratios on that tranny should be flogged in the town square. Or, more to the point, the bean counter that didn't want to design a new tranny and used ratios intended for a diesel motor should be.

For how much/often I tow it's not a huge deal and really only comes up under certain/rare circumstances. Mainly, up a moderate grade and/or with winding turns. Basically, I just cant drive between about 30-40. The choice is wind out 1st or lug 2nd (and hammer back into 1st).

I've made the choice to just live with it and may get a diesel at some point. It's really not a huge deal for my usage of the truck (wish I got out to camp more often). I just take exception to being told it's not a problem and just something I dreamed up after watching someone do a test. Let me tell you. It's very real and a HUGE negative to an otherwise pretty nice towing truck.

I didn't mean to offend and apologize. At 11k pounds on grades I believe you.
I just get tired of people on forums parroting information and making a big deal out of something they have no personal experience. You do have personal experience and I shouldn't have lumped you in without asking.
At 11k pounds there must be other scenarios, speeds, gears, where you are running out of power on grades? or no?
I have towed quite a few different campers, trailers, with gas and diesel. When people ask me about tow vehicles my usual answer is if you tow fairly often, more than 10K pounds you are in Diesel territory.

drittal · Feb 11, 2017

yoda said:
At 11k pounds there must be other scenarios, speeds, gears, where you are running out of power on grades? or no?

As previously stated, it's the large gap between 1st and 2nd gears in the 66RFE.

Not enough gear multiplication to hold 2nd, and easily enough to accelerate to redline in 1st when towing near Max GCWR on steep grades.

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Andrew09HEMI · Feb 11, 2017

drittal said:
As previously stated, it's the large gap between 1st and 2nd gears in the 66RFE.

Not enough gear multiplication to hold 2nd, and easily enough to accelerate to redline in 1st when towing near Max GCWR on steep grades.

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Just out of curiosity, for those of you who tow near max GCWR, what gears do you have? Not saying the shift points aren't out of wack but maybe a gear change would improve that downfall.

drittal · Feb 11, 2017

Ford 6R140 Gear Ratios:
First - 3.97:1
Second - 2.32:1
Third - 1.52:1
Fourth - 1.15:1
Fifth - 0.86:1
Sixth - 0.67:1

GM 6L90 Gear ratios:
First: 4.03
Second: 2.36
Third: 1.53
Fourth:1.15
Fifth:0.85
Sixth:0.67

Ram 66RFE
1st 3.231:1
2nd 1.837:1
3rd 1.410:1
4th 1.000:1
5th 0.816:1
6th 0.625:1

The Ram really needs the 4.10 as the standard gear set. 4.56 optional. Even 4.88 possibly. But while lowering the axle gears to ever come poor transmission ratio, overall fuel economy will begin to suffer empty at highway speeds due to the increased rpm

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yoda · Feb 11, 2017

drittal said:
Ford 6R140 Gear Ratios:
First - 3.97:1
Second - 2.32:1
Third - 1.52:1
Fourth - 1.15:1
Fifth - 0.86:1
Sixth - 0.67:1

GM 6L90 Gear ratios:
First: 4.03
Second: 2.36
Third: 1.53
Fourth:1.15
Fifth:0.85
Sixth:0.67

Ram 66RFE
1st 3.231:1
2nd 1.837:1
3rd 1.410:1
4th 1.000:1
5th 0.816:1
6th 0.625:1

The Ram really needs the 4.10 as the standard gear set. 4.56 optional. Even 4.88 possibly. But while lowering the axle gears to ever come poor transmission ratio, overall fuel economy will begin to suffer empty at highway speeds due to the increased rpm

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Agreed, I have 4:10. and even driving empty I wouldn't want 3:73.
I hate when vehicles are constantly shifting at the slightest grade.
I think empty 4:10s are about perfect for driving empty.
If I could have I would have gotten 4.56s, as I mainly bought the truck for towing my camper.
In the old days with 4:10s the engine was screaming goin down the road at 70mph.
With 2 overdrive ratios that's not the case anymore, but it's hard to change peoples thinking, especially salesman who tell people you want 3:73s for better fuel economy.

Interesting I never realized Ford and Chev. don't even have a 1:1 ratio.
My brain hurts thinking about planetary sets and how they accomplish that.
I have a pretty good handle on power flow with 2 planetaries in a 4speed.
3 planetaries in a 6 speed gets tougher, thinking about what's being held and what's driving in each gear.
8 speeds with 4 planets . Forget it. My brain is to old or not big enough LOL

drittal · Feb 11, 2017

yoda said:
My brain hurts thinking about planetary sets and how they accomplish that.

I have a pretty good handle on power flow with 2 planetaries in a 4speed.

3 planetaries in a 6 speed gets tougher, thinking about what's being held and what's driving in each gear.

8 speeds with 4 planets . Forget it. My brain is to old or not big enough LOL

https://youtu.be/iN1oENsApl0

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6.4 vs 5.7

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