Odometer Resetting Itself - Have you seen this before?

CDNUSER · Jan 26, 2017

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ExpressRules · Jan 26, 2017

It is unfortunate that an interesting topic can be ruined by a member with a huge ego and can never be wrong. I'm very interested to find out what the OP finds out from the dealer, but at this point the OP may be too disgusted with the direction this has gone in to return.

Btw, has anyone even thought to ask the OP if the trip odometer also only shows 6 miles or the actual mileage.

bobbo7915 · Jan 26, 2017

ExpressRules said:
Btw, has anyone even thought to ask the OP if the trip odometer also only shows 6 miles or the actual mileage.

That's a great question I hadn't thought of.

OP, sorry for the direction this has gone, hopefully you get this figured out with the dealer

yillbs · Jan 26, 2017

stimpy433 said:
If the cluster only shows what the PCM writes to it then why is it that when you replace the cluster it still shows the donor vehicles mileage??? By what your saying it should change the cluster to match the PCM.... also, if you don't get the mileage reset by a professional then why is it that the PCM continues to keep track of the original mileage while the cluster continues from whatever it was at when swapped????

Also, where are you getting all your info from... do you work at a dealership???

There is no ******* match here, sorry for the other who seem to think that. In your question, I think you misunderstood what I said, I said the cluster can write to the PCM. The PCM can, of course, write to the cluster, but it needs to have a signed cert. By what I'm saying is when you change the cluster out, the PCM doesn't know how many miles the car has, that's why it's showing the donor vehicle, to begin with. the PCM doesn't continue to keep track of the mileage on the truck, the PCM only stores the data in RAM, once the power goes off, the PCM no longer knows the actual mileage of the truck, once the power is back on, the cluster can then update the PCM, but the PCM can't update the cluster, not without having a signed CERT.

The PCM does store mileage at intervals, but these are nothing more that data logging, and really can't be used to accurately predict, or determine the mileage of the truck, it's not even encrypted, outside of the blowfish basic encryption they have on the entire PCM. you'd really have to have a pretty good understand of how NVRAM, and RAM function, as well as the encryption board, which is used across almost all of the FCA product line.

Now, OP, I don't really think this was off the initial topic, as we're discussing the way the odometer is stored, and read.

to touch base on how the PCM stores the data again, though, if the truck is started and accessories are in the ON position, RAM has power, ram stores the data from the cluster, it's a temporary save. so like I was saying before, if the data from the cluster is stored in the PCM because it was plugged in ( example ), then the data would not match, and honestly I'm assuming the encryption set would just null the data and trigger a service warning. I'm not as familiar with the workings on the dodge brand as I am with the actual FIAT brand.

My information comes from the 4 years I've worked for FCA. I don't work in a dealer, or as a tech. That's kind of moot, though, you can inquire about how the data is stored through FCA, they will happily explain to you how it gets stored, and where it's stored. They may not go as technical, but they will certainly give you a breakdown.

My initial replies were not saying the truck was dead. I was pointing out that he should merely take advantage of the situation because he has all the power to stand on at the moment with the dealer.

It's also to state that the encryption chipset, will always store the data from the last WRITE, because the data is written from cluster to the PCM, it would likely have it stored. that's the failsafe method used in case both the PCM, and cluster are fried ( say in a flood? ) , THIS chipset uses NVRAM, and stores data even when the power of the truck is turned " OFF ".

As for always being right... i'm NOT always right, as the few hastful comments suggest. In fact, i learn a lot, just like everyone else. However, when I AM correct, it's absolutely imperative that the information being shared is accurate, and correct. All most of you know is if you replace the cluster, the PCM has the mileage.. and that may be true, but it's not the PCM that has the data, it's the chipset that encrypts the datasets from the PCM to the cluster, and vice versa. I'm sorry if I've come off as a **** basket, that's not my intention by any means! :favorites13:

thrashie · Jan 26, 2017

yoda said:
There is a 3 year, 36 thousand mile bumper to bumper warranty. As soon as you sign the papers and drive it off the lot it belongs to you.
There is no return policy, once it has been sold it cannot be resold as a new truck. It would be a used truck at that point.
Dealers do not warranty vehicles the manufacturer does. You can't expect the dealer to take a beating reselling your used truck

I disagree.

a few years back, I bought a reg cab ram. once i got it home, I instantly realized i needed a quad cab instead. So, I went back the next day and was able to return it and get a quad...guess it depends on the dealer/miles put on the vehicle/time etc..

lukedukem · Jan 26, 2017

This escalated quickly. What a waste of bandwidth.
Sure hope he comes back to let us know what happened.

Luke

lukedukem · Jan 26, 2017

thrashie said:
I disagree.

a few years back, I bought a reg cab ram. once i got it home, I instantly realized i needed a quad cab instead. So, I went back the next day and was able to return it and get a quad...guess it depends on the dealer/miles put on the vehicle/time etc..

I'm sure it was because you upgraded. It was more money in there pocket

Luke

clh1220 · Jan 26, 2017

lukedukem said:
I'm sure it was because you upgraded. It was more money in there pocket

Luke

Could be determined by your state. In missouri it's 3 days to return.

thrashie · Jan 26, 2017

lukedukem said:
I'm sure it was because you upgraded. It was more money in there pocket

Luke

yep, that, and i got it in the evening and swaped it out the next morning, so paperwork didn't go anywhere yet. but still...it's not something set in stone

mohemipar · Jan 27, 2017

I dont think it was anyones intention to "scare" the guy or start arguments... I also dont think anyone was suggesting going into the dealer and throwing a fit. Yes, he has to wait and see what the issue is first, but if it is something serious - I would make damn sure to explain to the dealer that its unacceptable on a brand new truck that has 6 miles and an MSRP over 45k. Life is also too short to get screwed on a brand new vehicle and there are many dealers out there who are willing to work with people. I know this first hand from working at a dealership when i was younger and from hearing other people's experiences. Buy yeah, he might have a dealer that would never let him return the truck. But you never know until you try... I have experienced electrical issues first hand on a new vehicle as I've stated, so Im in the minority with this opinion. But its not always as simple as throwing in a new harness or module. We'll see if he lets us know what it was, if it persists, etc. I dont remember what state hes in, but he can also check his lemon laws and see if the problem continues up to his lemon law guidelines. But the whole point of him posting here is to get peoples opinions - and we talk and speculate... thats the whole point of a forum. Opinions are scary i suppose. :baby:

But the guy who said his title and **** will be flagged is wrong. Thats not gonna happen lol.

JustB_rad · Jan 27, 2017

The one thing I didn't see mentioned about if you have to keep the repaired vehicle is this. You don't REALLY know how many miles were on the truck when you signed the papers. Not that it could be that many, but it's still mileage off your 36,000 that you didn't get.

yoda · Jan 27, 2017

yillbs said:
There is no ******* match here, sorry for the other who seem to think that. In your question, I think you misunderstood what I said, I said the cluster can write to the PCM. The PCM can, of course, write to the cluster, but it needs to have a signed cert. By what I'm saying is when you change the cluster out, the PCM doesn't know how many miles the car has, that's why it's showing the donor vehicle, to begin with. the PCM doesn't continue to keep track of the mileage on the truck, the PCM only stores the data in RAM, once the power goes off, the PCM no longer knows the actual mileage of the truck, once the power is back on, the cluster can then update the PCM, but the PCM can't update the cluster, not without having a signed CERT.

The PCM does store mileage at intervals, but these are nothing more that data logging, and really can't be used to accurately predict, or determine the mileage of the truck, it's not even encrypted, outside of the blowfish basic encryption they have on the entire PCM. you'd really have to have a pretty good understand of how NVRAM, and RAM function, as well as the encryption board, which is used across almost all of the FCA product line.

Now, OP, I don't really think this was off the initial topic, as we're discussing the way the odometer is stored, and read.

to touch base on how the PCM stores the data again, though, if the truck is started and accessories are in the ON position, RAM has power, ram stores the data from the cluster, it's a temporary save. so like I was saying before, if the data from the cluster is stored in the PCM because it was plugged in ( example ), then the data would not match, and honestly I'm assuming the encryption set would just null the data and trigger a service warning. I'm not as familiar with the workings on the dodge brand as I am with the actual FIAT brand.

My information comes from the 4 years I've worked for FCA. I don't work in a dealer, or as a tech. That's kind of moot, though, you can inquire about how the data is stored through FCA, they will happily explain to you how it gets stored, and where it's stored. They may not go as technical, but they will certainly give you a breakdown.

My initial replies were not saying the truck was dead. I was pointing out that he should merely take advantage of the situation because he has all the power to stand on at the moment with the dealer.

It's also to state that the encryption chipset, will always store the data from the last WRITE, because the data is written from cluster to the PCM, it would likely have it stored. that's the failsafe method used in case both the PCM, and cluster are fried ( say in a flood? ) , THIS chipset uses NVRAM, and stores data even when the power of the truck is turned " OFF ".

As for always being right... i'm NOT always right, as the few hastful comments suggest. In fact, i learn a lot, just like everyone else. However, when I AM correct, it's absolutely imperative that the information being shared is accurate, and correct. All most of you know is if you replace the cluster, the PCM has the mileage.. and that may be true, but it's not the PCM that has the data, it's the chipset that encrypts the datasets from the PCM to the cluster, and vice versa. I'm sorry if I've come off as a **** basket, that's not my intention by any means!

Not to beat a dead horse, that may very well be how FIAT does it and if it is likely how the FIAT designed vehicles work, cherokee, 200, pacifica, renegade etc. and probably will be how the Rams work in the future.
Unless something has changed in 17 in the Rams, that is not how it works.
I can't comment on how chip sets and encryption etc. all work as I don't know. But from practical experience what you are saying cannot be correct.

All of it is a mute point in my opinion, maybe the guy doesn't want a new truck and isn't worried about a possible couple hundred mile discrepancy.
It's not going to set any red flags or affect resale. Lets just wait and see what is wrong with the truck.

Unless the OP is obsessed with "Sticking it to the man" whoever that is.

R.L.K. · Jan 27, 2017

stimpy433 said:
If the cluster only shows what the PCM writes to it then why is it that when you replace the cluster it still shows the donor vehicles mileage??? By what your saying it should change the cluster to match the PCM.... also, if you don't get the mileage reset by a professional then why is it that the PCM continues to keep track of the original mileage while the cluster continues from whatever it was at when swapped????

Also, where are you getting all your info from... do you work at a dealership???

^^^^^THIS^^^^^
Is correct imo.

Hell maybe I'm ignorant as well ....

I know this , if you install a cluster from a diff truck (13-17Ram) the cluster while in your truck will initially read what it was in the other truck , then it will increase in mileage once you start to drive . It will not automatically populate what your trucks PCM has stored .

I'm interested in what fixes the OP'S odometer issue , most likely it's just the cluster change .

@ the OP , you do not have to go to the dealer you purchased the truck from for warranty work , just go to the best dealer that's closest to you .
Also , if you haven't done so already , definitely get Ramcares involved , she responded to this thread earlier .

Good luck to you Sir ! Even though your thread created a bunch of craziness it's just different guys trying to help in there own way please don't let the crazy here keep you from letting us know what actually fixed your issue .

Sir John · Jan 27, 2017

R.L.K. said:
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
I know this , if you install a cluster from a diff truck (13-17Ram) the cluster while in your truck will initially read what it was in the other truck , then it will increase in mileage once you start to drive . It will not automatically populate what your trucks PCM has stored .

This is 100% correct. I just had my cluster replaced 2 weeks ago on my brand new 2016 Rebel due to the flickering lights issue. I had to leave my truck at the dealership until a Chrysler engineer could program my replacement cluster with my actual mileage. I legally was not able to drive it in the meantime due to gettng incorrect mileage displayed versus what was actually on the truck. The mileage the cluster displayed had nothing to do with what the PCM stored.

THETANK · Jan 27, 2017

yillbs said:
Just because you didn't get a new truck, doesn't mean he shouldn't. The fact you accepted it with not knowing how many miles were actually on it is quite ignorant actually, sure the dealer told you it was fine, why wouldn't they ?

Anyone that takes a truck that's had past odometer display issues in the past deserves to get screwed, even more so when you're told how imperative it is that it deosnt' get fixed. corrected. No pitch forks, just a good way to stick it to the " man " who constantly sticks it to the people

I feel bad for you, seriously :favorites13:

lukedukem · Jan 27, 2017

THETANK said:
I feel bad for you, seriously

Lol, you shouldn't.

Luke

yillbs · Jan 27, 2017

THETANK said:
I feel bad for you, seriously

Thanks man

TruckNut · Jan 27, 2017

Look at it this way....you'll have the longest factory warranty......ever. Good luck getting everything fixed to your satisfaction.

ExpressRules · Jan 27, 2017

yillbs said:
The only people you should feel sorry for are those that don't have the mental capacity to actually read, understand, and retain what's been said. It's a rather short list, but you're on it.

yillbs · Jan 27, 2017

ExpressRules said:

well, I did have a change of heart afterwards, I figured if people are going to be to lazy to read / understand, then the argument is futile.

Odometer Resetting Itself - Have you seen this before?

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