nitrous outlet dual stage

currently running nitrous outlet 5.7/6.1 85mm hemi plate system with a 6an main feed line with 4an purge kit and bottle heater


so my question is how can i install a dual stage nitrous system to my existing system or do i have to add a different complete seperate new system if thats the case how would i mount the n20 black line and the red fuel line from the solenoids to the plate if i have 2 seperate systems the plate only comes with 1 n20 and 1 fuel so how can i insert 2 n20 lines and 2 fuel lines into the same plate.im not sure which route to take but want to get it figured out so i can start my purchases what are my options? want to keep it all nitrous outlet brand so if you guys have part#s so i can look into will appreciate it

If you don't get an answer before Monday you might call Matt at Moe's Performance (a vendor on this site). He is pretty knowledgeable about nitrous systems.
Jay

Have you thought about using a progressive controller instead.

You could order up a " Inlet tube nozzle" and just drill a hole in the intake tube between the filter and the throttle body. - If that is an option for you- but as stated above I would reach out to mat as I am sure they prolly know the preferd way of doing it.

Your easiest option is an add-a-stage kit that comes with a separate nozzle, solenoids, and taps into your current feed line. You have a -6 feed line so you can flow more than enough nitrous with that. Most people that run the add-a-stage will tap the intake piping and run up to a 75 shot through it and use the plate as the main shot keeping it around the 150-175 range. This is the simplest route to go and you'll have two fixed output stages of nitrous/fuel injection.

The other, much more expensive option, is to get a progressive controller and the largest solenoids and pills you can get. Tuning will be VERY important because you can easily screw it up and lean out the AFR. Lingenfelter makes some wicked units and what I'd use if I was to get back on the giggle gas with a progressive controller.

Are you on a stock motor or are you running a stroker or forged block? What is your reasoning behind wanting 2 stages, traction? Or just wanting more power? What shot do you currently run, if you don't mind me asking.

Just trying to get an idea of your goals here.

yes but not really notbsire that works

charonblk07 said:

Your easiest option is an add-a-stage kit that comes with a separate nozzle, solenoids, and taps into your current feed line. You have a -6 feed line so you can flow more than enough nitrous with that. Most people that run the add-a-stage will tap the intake piping and run up to a 75 shot through it and use the plate as the main shot keeping it around the 150-175 range. This is the simplest route to go and you'll have two fixed output stages of nitrous/fuel injection.

The other, much more expensive option, is to get a progressive controller and the largest solenoids and pills you can get. Tuning will be VERY important because you can easily screw it up and lean out the AFR. Lingenfelter makes some wicked units and what I'd use if I was to get back on the giggle gas with a progressive controller.

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yes progressive is more expensive and way to complicated for me

can i just remove my nitrous outlet plate system and add a nitrous express plate that comes with dual stage ports

http://www.nitrousexpress.com/nx944-plate-conversion-for-hemi-vehicles.html


then after having that plate installed add a nitrous outlet dual stage conversion kit

http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/efi-ni...ions/single-to-dual-stage-wet-conversion.html

then i would have 2 different n20 inserts and 2 fuel line inserts for the n20 solenoids and the 2 fuel solenoids using the nx dual plate system?

but then yet how em i going to connect my 6 an main feed line to feed on the other n20 solenoid that ill be using as the second stage? does that mean i cannot spray with one bottle i need a complete single nozzle system to use with the nx dual stage plate for my second stage


http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/efi-wet-nitrous-systems/x-series-chrysler-efi-single-nozzle-system.html

or

http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/efi-we...ler-4-7-5-7-6-1-efi-single-nozzle-system.html

please answer my questions to see if what im thinking would work i dont want to make holes on my intake want to see if icould get away with it and make sure if what i have in mind would work thanks

Good call on the NX plate, I didn't know they made one for the hemi, that's the cleanest way to do it if you're going to add a second stage. Get the add-a-stage kit and the additional plate plumbing plumbing and you can tie it all to the plate. To feed both solenoids it's really easy, just add a -6 Y-fitting and feed both solenoids from that. The -6 feed will flow enough nitrous for up to a 400 shot so there is no need to add a second bottle. If it were me, I'd also be looking at installing a Nano Nitrous system so you have a cylinder down tube that can flow all the nitrous you could ever need and you won't have any bottle heating issues.

Something to keep in mind, don't get too big on the nitrous shot with a plate kit. Around the 300-400 mark you have to switch to a direct port or you can have a very uneven nitrous/air/fuel mix in the cylinders the same way that carbs did when they relied on the plenum to split and aerate the fuel properly through the intake manifold. That's when you'll lean out and pop cylinders.

What is your final total HP goal for the nitrous here. We can suggest things all day but if you're only trying to spray a 150 shot then half of what's being said is just wasting money.

charonblk07 said:

Good call on the NX plate, I didn't know they made one for the hemi, that's the cleanest way to do it if you're going to add a second stage. Get the add-a-stage kit and the additional plate plumbing plumbing and you can tie it all to the plate. To feed both solenoids it's really easy, just add a -6 Y-fitting and feed both solenoids from that. The -6 feed will flow enough nitrous for up to a 400 shot so there is no need to add a second bottle. If it were me, I'd also be looking at installing a Nano Nitrous system so you have a cylinder down tube that can flow all the nitrous you could ever need and you won't have any bottle heating issues.

Something to keep in mind, don't get too big on the nitrous shot with a plate kit. Around the 300-400 mark you have to switch to a direct port or you can have a very uneven nitrous/air/fuel mix in the cylinders the same way that carbs did when they relied on the plenum to split and aerate the fuel properly through the intake manifold. That's when you'll lean out and pop cylinders.

Click to expand...

if i dont use the plate and decide to just run it in the intake where exactly can i make a hole to add the nitrous nozzle fitting with fuel and n20 inserts comes in the kit and could save my self $300 + if i go with the fitting something i need to think of and make a decision.

http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/nitrous-outlet-1-8-npt-wet-nitrous-nozzle-3866.html

i would have to have my 1st stage n20 nitrous solenoid on at all times in order for me to spray with the second correct reason for that being is because i would only one bottle? i mean i have another 10lbs bottle bot dont want to get another holding bracket bottle heater kit atleast not right now..... can i get away with using my purge system for both solenoids?

BigSloth said:

What is your final total HP goal for the nitrous here. We can suggest things all day but if you're only trying to spray a 150 shot then half of what's being said is just wasting money.

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ok well im getting smaller wheels with bigger wider tire

15x10s .

hoosier 29x12x15
with brake modification to get them to fit.....

so im thinking of sprayin of the line if i could hook

100 of the hole and 150 on top 250total
100 of hole and 175 on top 275 total
100 of hole and 200 on top max im wont be spraying more than a 3 total but want to keep it on the 250 range thats my goal

if i cannot hook with 100 shot of the line then. i will lower the shot so..

75 of hole 175 on top 250 total
75 of hole and 200 on top 275total
75 of hole and 225 on top 300 total max

and if i cannot hook with a 75 then i will lower it to
a smaller shot

50 of hole and a 200 on top 250total
50of hole and 225 on top 275total
50 of hole and 250 on top 300max

so everything will depend on whatever shot i can hook of the the line but it will not pass 300 shot total but want to keep it below 300 so 250 is watt im shooing at total right now

BigSloth said:

Are you on a stock motor or are you running a stroker or forged block? What is your reasoning behind wanting 2 stages, traction? Or just wanting more power? What shot do you currently run, if you don't mind me asking.

Just trying to get an idea of your goals here.

Click to expand...

sorry i missed this comment of yours earlier just saw it

im running a 5.7 400stroker engine buily by inertia motorsports built for nitrous
with big exhaust valve ported heads upgraded spring shims retainers etc stock pushrods with non mds lifters and custom cam.

and alot of bolt on
gears
stall
trinity with custom tune
long tubes
lower crank pulley
170 thermostat etc....

and yea traction now im just spraying 200 but i could only turn my nos on after 60ft after launching so with the dual stage ill get traction with a small shot of the line and a big shot of the line so 250 275 or 300 max

so yeah traction and more power

Well then. That's quite the goal.

First of all, your stock fuel system will not supply enough fuel reliably for 250+hp of nitrous. Yes I know you're meaning to do a wet system, I mean the pump itself can't handle that much. I sprayed 200 for a few weekends and had a couple scares where fuel pressure got a little lower than I'd like it so I backed it down to 175. So you will either need to run a better pump, I've heard there are options that fit in the stock fuel pump hat, but not sure of part numbers. Or you will need to run a standalone fuel cell for at least one of the stages. I would recommend the standalone fuel system because you can fine tune AFR by tweaking fuel pressure at the regulator. You can also run higher octane race fuel easily, which will be a necessity at those power levels for safety.

Second, that's a lot of nitrous for a stock block 5.7. You never answered my earlier question of whether you were stock 5.7 or stroker, forged block, etc so I'm going to go with your profile info and assume stock 5.7. I'm not going to say it's for sure going to be too much, because there just aren't enough people out there trying it to get good data. Just understand that you are beyond what most would consider the limits of a stock 5.7. If you run high octane fuel, the correct plugs, and tune it well, you have a much better chance of success.

As for the 2 stage, I would go with the add a stage route, as suggested earlier by charonblk, which just involves adding a nozzle to your air intake pipe. Not the intake manifold like direct port, just a simple hole in your intake tube right before the throttle body. Let that be your small stage, lead with that system, then go into the plate system.

Scratch my second point then. You posted the engine specs before I was done typing.

For your setup, I would say the add a stage would be the best if you don't think the truck will hold a big shot off the line.

BigSloth said:

Well then. That's quite the goal.

First of all, your stock fuel system will not supply enough fuel reliably for 250+hp of nitrous. Yes I know you're meaning to do a wet system, I mean the pump itself can't handle that much. I sprayed 200 for a few weekends and had a couple scares where fuel pressure got a little lower than I'd like it so I backed it down to 175. So you will either need to run a better pump, I've heard there are options that fit in the stock fuel pump hat, but not sure of part numbers. Or you will need to run a standalone fuel cell for at least one of the stages. I would recommend the standalone fuel system because you can fine tune AFR by tweaking fuel pressure at the regulator. You can also run higher octane race fuel easily, which will be a necessity at those power levels for safety.

Second, that's a lot of nitrous for a stock block 5.7. You never answered my earlier question of whether you were stock 5.7 or stroker, forged block, etc so I'm going to go with your profile info and assume stock 5.7. I'm not going to say it's for sure going to be too much, because there just aren't enough people out there trying it to get good data. Just understand that you are beyond what most would consider the limits of a stock 5.7. If you run high octane fuel, the correct plugs, and tune it well, you have a much better chance of success.

As for the 2 stage, I would go with the add a stage route, as suggested earlier by charonblk, which just involves adding a nozzle to your air intake pipe. Not the intake manifold like direct port, just a simple hole in your intake tube right before the throttle body. Let that be your small stage, lead with that system, then go into the plate system.

Click to expand...

how exactly does the stand alone fuel cell work? or can i just put another fuel pump to have twin pumps?i have 6.4 injectors so what would be my options on fuel pump?

yes stroked engine i would not run more than 150shot on a stock bottom end i know why im telling you already blew 1 5.7 block....

can i use my existing purge system to use with the 2nd stage add on?

california said:

how exactly does the stand alone fuel cell work? or can i just put another fuel pump to have twin pumps?i have 6.4 injectors so what would be my options on fuel pump?

yes stroked engine i would not run more than 150shot on a stock bottom end i know why im telling you already blew 1 5.7 block....

can i use my existing purge system to use with the 2nd stage add on?

Click to expand...

I don't know what the part number is for the pump but I've been told aero motive makes one. You could just upgrade the pump but at the amount of nitrous you're talking about using I think you would benefit from more power in a safer, easier to tune setup from a standalone unit.

A standalone fuel system is usually around 700-900 dollars but worth every penny.

Standalone systems are small, self contained fuel cells with their own fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and return system. Nitrous outlet makes a very nice one that mounts in most OEM battery trays, and is roughly the size of a battery, and is held down by battery hold down Hardware. For those of us with rams, we don't need to relocate our battery to use one either. There is already a mounting platform for a second battery in our trucks. The battery tray is like 40 bucks from dodge and bolts right in, allowing you to use it for your fuel cell.

Basically they are wired into the nitrous system, and run a low pressure fuel system usually 5-8 psi, that already has 6-AN fittings for the fuel outlet for ease of install. Instead of using a T fitting to draw fuel from your factory pump, you fill the reservoir with your favorite high octane, unleaded race fuel such as VP racing MS109, and when you use that stage of nitrous it draws only from that fuel cell and does not add increased load to your stock pump.

The biggest benefits of this are the ability to easily run race fuel in the enrichment system, without needing to drain your trucks fuel tank first, or risking dilution. Also the ability to fine tune AFR by adjusting fuel pressure on the standalone cell. Whereas with a standard system drawing from the trucks pump, you would need to change pills to richen or lean the mixture. With a standalone you can increase or decrease fuel pressure slightly using the built in regulator to fine tune AFR between passes without pill changes.

california said:

how exactly does the stand alone fuel cell work? or can i just put another fuel pump to have twin pumps?i have 6.4 injectors so what would be my options on fuel pump?

yes stroked engine i would not run more than 150shot on a stock bottom end i know why im telling you already blew 1 5.7 block....

can i use my existing purge system to use with the 2nd stage add on?

Click to expand...

A standalone system completely separates the nitrous system from the truck's fuel system and might be something to think about. You can run it independently with a higher octane fuel if you want as well.

SAFE, STAND ALONE FUEL ENRICHMENT SYSTEM, INTERNAL PUMP, 5-80 PSI ADJUSTABLE REGULATOR, GASOLINE OR

Universal Dedicated Nitrous Fuel Systems

BigSloth has a good point about the stock fuel pump. The Aeromotive Stealth pump will drop into the stock fuel basket with some minor modification but it might be better to run the independent system since it comes with a dedicated pump and pressure regulator.

If you plumb it correctly you can run the purge on both stages, just install a tee right before both solenoids and one at the purge solenoid. When the purge solenoid opens it will flow nitrous up to both solenoids since they're coming from the same source.

Damn, Sloth beat me to it, lol

charonblk07 said:

A standalone system completely separates the nitrous system from the truck's fuel system and might be something to think about. You can run it independently with a higher octane fuel if you want as well.

SAFE, STAND ALONE FUEL ENRICHMENT SYSTEM, INTERNAL PUMP, 5-80 PSI ADJUSTABLE REGULATOR, GASOLINE OR

Universal Dedicated Nitrous Fuel Systems

BigSloth has a good point about the stock fuel pump. The Aeromotive Stealth pump will drop into the stock fuel basket with some minor modification but it might be better to run the independent system since it comes with a dedicated pump and pressure regulator.

If you plumb it correctly you can run the purge on both stages, just install a tee right before both solenoids and one at the purge solenoid. When the purge solenoid opens it will flow nitrous up to both solenoids since they're coming from the same source.

Click to expand...

what if i stick to the stand alone later and just stick to upgrading fuel pump now im sure it will be less expensive thelat stand alone sounds like a great idea but not something i want to try right now