Low end torque advice

iSlacker816 · May 23, 2012

So off the line my truck is a dog and I know with as many miles I have it's gonna have less than brand new but I need more than what it has now. I was talking to my buddy at work and he said back pressure helps with low end torque as well as intake manifold design. As I noticed I lost some when i got rid of the stock exhaust and just threw on a glass pack and dumped it. So soon I'll be getting a flowmaster 40 series to fix that. What I'm wondering is what else can I do, without buying a cummins lol, to get some more low end torque.

the codes · May 23, 2012

headers maybe..? not sure

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talon6 · May 23, 2012

gears wil help.a tuner will help too. back pressure will help, but to much will hurt your performance. most guys that put on true duals donnt have anywhere close to the power to support it. especially in a heavy truck. i donnt think i have done any mods that really helped much with low end torque. most things that add power also take rpms to achieve.

Okiespaniel · May 23, 2012

The only thing I have found that truly increases low end torque to approach Cummins levels is gears. The cumulative incremental amounts of low end torque that basic mods make is nearly useless.
As far as exhaust back pressure, there's too much and too little. Most gas trucks on here will never use the mega diameter straight through systems they think they need. That hurts the bottom end. Most mildly modded trucks can effectivly use far less.

My SCT tuner helped because it eliminated the torque managment that Mopar put on my truck and also removed the death flash. But not all 2nd gen trucks have those issues. It still can't spin the tires from a dead stop.

I can tell you guys...before any more engine mods are added, I'll be saving for gears. Then I'll add mods to the engine to increase the horsepower the gears sucked up. That is the only disadvantage to gears. Thier exponential (and instant) increase in low end torque is offset by the top end horsepower they chew up. But it's worth it.

iSlacker816 · May 23, 2012

Torque management and death flash? Elaborate please

Okiespaniel · May 23, 2012

iSlacker816 said:
Torque management and death flash? Elaborate please

Certainly... :birgits_tiredcoffee

Torque managemnet. Built into your factory PCM to retard your timing and take out your low end when the tps senses the gas pedal is floored from a dead stop. When your truck was new, this helped Dodge eliminate a lot of "warranty" claims from damaged drivetrain parts.

Later model vehicles still use it...on newer Challengers it's called traction control.

Death flash. Done to reduce pinging complaints. Factory PCM is reflashed with a less aggresive advance curve. Many forum posters swear this was done to cover up a leaking plenum and that may be true but is not likely since Dodge had a test for that.

MADDOG · May 23, 2012

Taller gears will definitely make a difference.

iSlacker816 · May 23, 2012

Okiespaniel said:
Certainly...

Torque managemnet. Built into your factory PCM to retard your timing and take out your low end when the tps senses the gas pedal is floored from a dead stop. When your truck was new, this helped Dodge eliminate a lot of "warranty" claims from damaged drivetrain parts.

Later model vehicles still use it...on newer Challengers it's called traction control.

Death flash. Done to reduce pinging complaints. Factory PCM is reflashed with a less aggresive advance curve. Many forum posters swear this was done to cover up a leaking plenum and that may be true but is not likely since Dodge had a test for that.

Hmm good fact to know. Is there a way to know if your PCM is equipped with torque management?

Okiespaniel · May 23, 2012

Yeah...if you have a Dodge you have it!

Actually...1999 and later 2nd gen trucks with the newer OBDII systems have it the worst.

iSlacker816 · May 23, 2012

Lol I see, I see you have a SCT tuner do you know if Super chips takes care of this as I'm running the 91 tune with my superchips

Okiespaniel · May 23, 2012

iSlacker816 said:
Lol I see, I see you have a SCT tuner do you know if Super chips takes care of this as I'm running the 91 tune with my superchips

No Superchips does not. As a FYI, Superchips and Hypertech tuners are known as "piggyback" tuners. They do not remove the factory tune and while they do remove most of the death flash, do not touch the torque management and then can claim they "don't negate" factory warranties. Most Superchips owners report an increase in top end/mid range power but not much in the bottom end. I have at least one account of an owner still being able to run 87 octane on a 93 tune.

SCT tuners remove and store your OEM tune and replace it with an entirely new one. Unlike a B&G reflash which is similar, SCT retains the OBD diagnostics and the canned tunes can be rewritten when other mods are added.
Sean (Hemifever) also reprograms the trans so that lockup and OD occur later, giving you a bit more mid range.
However, SCTs cannot adjust for tire size like a Superchips. Also the 93 tune is VERY aggressive and you may need octane booster to run it. I tried it on 91 octane and noticed no part throttle improvement over the "custom" 89 tune that Sean gave me.
Other than that it has been my best power mod over exhaust and intake mods. Mileage mod...not so impressive.

iSlacker816 · May 23, 2012

Okiespaniel said:
No Superchips does not. As a FYI, Superchips and Hypertech tuners are known as "piggyback" tuners. They do not remove the factory tune and while they do remove most of the death flash, do not touch the torque management and then can claim they "don't negate" factory warranties. Most Superchips owners report an increase in top end/mid range power but not much in the bottom end. I have at least one account of an owner still being able to run 87 octane on a 93 tune.

SCT tuners remove and store your OEM tune and replace it with an entirely new one. Unlike a B&G reflash which is similar, SCT retains the OBD diagnostics and the canned tunes can be rewritten when other mods are added.
Sean (Hemiefever) also reprograms the trans so that lockup and OD occur later, giving you a bit more mid range.
However, SCTs cannot adjust for tire size like a Superchips. Also the 93 tune is VERY aggressive and you may need octane booster to run it. I tried it on 91 octane and noticed no part throttle improvement over the "custom" 89 tune that Sean gave me.
Other than that it has been my best power mod over exhaust and intake mods. Mileage mod...not so impressive.

As I'm running 87 on 91 tune with no pinging or anything. It has helped in the mid to high range like you stated and as well as nothing on the lower end. Superchips won't let me adjust the tire size on my truck anyway so that's nothing to me. What does Hemiefever charge for tunes roughly. I might start looking for a SCT tuner for my truck and sell the superchips. Sounds like SC does amazing on the hemi's but not so much on the magnum motors

Okiespaniel · May 23, 2012

iSlacker816 said:
As I'm running 87 on 91 tune with no pinging or anything. It has helped in the mid to high range like you stated and as well as nothing on the lower end. Superchips won't let me adjust the tire size on my truck anyway so that's nothing to me. What does Hemiefever charge for tunes roughly. I might start looking for a SCT tuner for my truck and sell the superchips. Sounds like SC does amazing on the hemi's but not so much on the magnum motors

He charged me 265.00 for 3 canned tunes...an 87 octane, my 89 custom, and a 93 octane. Normally it comes with a fairly aggressive 91 octane in place of the 89 tune.

You may notice a bit more low end because your lift isn't as aggresive and your tires are a bit smaller.

iSlacker816 · May 23, 2012

I gotcha, what lift is on your truck? I'm going with a RC 5 inch next year so it'll be up there with 35's... I just need a crate motor to drop in this thing with gears lol

Joshwaa · May 23, 2012

Gears is probably your best bet. Specially if you want to get bigger tires.

Okiespaniel · May 24, 2012

iSlacker816 said:
I gotcha, what lift is on your truck? I'm going with a RC 5 inch next year so it'll be up there with 35's... I just need a crate motor to drop in this thing with gears lol

It's right around 5 inches...a combination of RC, BDS, and off road springs...and 33 inch tires. With 3:55 gears it has never been a low end hauler, except in 4 LO.
I wouldn't even consider 35 inch tires without gearing down. :birgits_tiredcoffee

Catchin Zs · May 24, 2012

Aftermarket tq converter maybe a 2600 or 2800 stall would help.

the codes · May 24, 2012

I have heard that our tq converters are weak

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reefguy89 · May 24, 2012

turbo.

iSlacker816 · May 24, 2012

reefguy89 said:
turbo.

You buy it I'll put it on lol.

Low end torque advice

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