Synthetic Oil

[SyN]

Thank you for the welcome.

Is that Fram guaranteed to filter for 15k miles, or just guaranteed against falling apart for 15k miles? With that little and small of filter media inside, I wouldn't go far with one. Maybe Fram has some super-duper super-folded media in their little filters that increases the area size, but I doubt it.

Ah! Funny Guy! My #1 Rule! I do my research before I open my mouth and make myself look very foolish!

1st Fram does not even make the Ultra! Hmmm!

2nd I have been doing 2 OCI with 1 Ultra since the day I started using them... Once again-->Many Many years ago... 2 of those motors had well over 200K miles on them when I sold them... I have never said nothing about it Here! Due to the fact those who don't understand would ridicule and make comments such as yours... LoL! Thats ok!

Oh by the Way! My sons 5.4L 3V has right at 250K-255Kmiles now while using the Ultra... It might even have more then that...Haven't seen the mileage in a couple months since he has been back at college...
No oil is used between 7K-8K mile OCI...

Last time we changed plugs @ {210K miles} a compression check was done-->Hey Guess what? Compression in all 8 cylinders was outstanding... Mechanic asked me many times what my maintenance habits where and what filter and oil I used... {All he had to do was look at the filter}...I just told him-->Don't worry yourself about it! You would laugh because you would not understand... I should have taken him one of my XG2 cut open Ultras after being in service for 16K miles and still looking like it could go another 5K miles... I could only hear and see him laughing-->Your using a Fram? Ya I know! Here we go again...

Welcome again!!! Your going to fit right in!

You was correct about 1 thing! It is some what of super duper media {Better then Most} & it is actually folded!

One more thing! ROFL! All my autos have been Very Very Well maintained. I know the inside the oil pan and the valve train is virtually spotless... Totally Sludge Free! So I have never had a worry or concern leaving the Ultras on for 2 OCI... I would not do this on a Used Auto that I bought... I know it is hard to realize but I am not the only one doing this... There are hundreds of owners within BITOG who take the oil filters beyond 1 OCI...

I do apologize to you Dave and to all those wishing and hoping for a Doom/Gloom report from myself on Engine Failures/Bearing Melting/Crank Shaft Seizing/Rod Knocking/ all due an Ultra Failure... It just hasn't happened due to my Maintenance Habits over the last 20 some years...

I have got to quit posting in this thread! Every other time I have to type a Friggen short story explaining my madness!

 

[Burla]

Hey Syn, you got that old moly info sheet you posted a while back? I was trying to explain to someone about why it takes time for moly to seep in, that sheet spelled it out. Too many pages to go find it

 

[smiley]

Ah! Funny Guy! My #1 Rule! I do my research before I open my mouth and make myself look very foolish!

1st Fram does not even make the Ultra! Hmmm!

2nd I have been doing 2 OCI with 1 Ultra since the day I started using them... Once again-->Many Many years ago... 2 of those motors had well over 200K miles on them when I sold them... I have never said nothing about it Here! Due to the fact those who don't understand would ridicule and make comments such as yours... LoL! Thats ok!

Oh by the Way! My sons 5.4L 3V has right at 250K-255Kmiles now while using the Ultra... It might even have more then that...Haven't seen the mileage in a couple months since he has been back at college...
No oil is used between 7K-8K mile OCI...

Last time we changed plugs @ {210K miles} a compression check was done-->Hey Guess what? Compression in all 8 cylinders was outstanding... Mechanic asked me many times what my maintenance habits where and what filter and oil I used... {All he had to do was look at the filter}...I just told him-->Don't worry yourself about it! You would laugh because you would not understand... I should have taken him one of my XG2 cut open Ultras after being in service for 16K miles and still looking like it could go another 5K miles... I could only hear and see him laughing-->Your using a Fram? Ya I know! Here we go again...

Welcome again!!! Your going to fit right in!

You was correct about 1 thing! It is some what of super duper media {Better then Most} & it is actually folded!

One more thing! ROFL! All my autos have been Very Very Well maintained. I know the inside the oil pan and the valve train is virtually spotless... Totally Sludge Free! So I have never had a worry or concern leaving the Ultras on for 2 OCI... I would not do this on a Used Auto that I bought... I know it is hard to realize but I am not the only one doing this... There are hundreds of owners within BITOG who take the oil filters beyond 1 OCI...

I do apologize to you Dave and to all those wishing and hoping for a Doom/Gloom report from myself on Engine Failures/Bearing Melting/Crank Shaft Seizing/Rod Knocking/ all due an Ultra Failure... It just hasn't happened due to my Maintenance Habits over the last 20 some years...

I have got to quit posting in this thread! Every other time I have to type a Friggen short story explaining my madness!

That is awesome. I wonder if they could or maybe do make an Ultra transmission filter because those things sound amazing. I give you credit for being able and willing to push the envelope and not be scared like many are myself included.

 

[SyN]

Hey Syn, you got that old moly info sheet you posted a while back? I was trying to explain to someone about why it takes time for moly to seep in, that sheet spelled it out. Too many pages to go find it

No Burla I do not! Sorry... My laptop here is so floppin old... I don't keep anything of value on it... due to it might crash at any time...I need to just go buy me a new one with a ton of memory that way I can store all that important info... Sad thing is I let my kids have all the new cool stuff-->Both have $1500 Apple laptops for college & I am stuck with this 12 year old Acer! I can help ya find it if ya like...


Smiley: The truth be known-->I learned off the Ultra from BITOG... Years ago! Many owners were pushing their OCI way beyond 1 before me with this filter...After reading hundreds of posts and PM many of them... I had the confidence in the filter to do it myself... With all of those I read, I never heard of 1 failing during the 2nd OCI...

This is just not something I did out of the blue believe me... I had been doing it before with my Amsoil oil filters as well-->Never an issue... Have been a PC since I was 18... Dad was a part time dealer for many years....His full time job was with OG&E for 29 years... He enjoyed using it and selling it...

And Please Please! No one else do this just because I am doing this... Don't be one of the Sheep and follow! Do your own research and then make your decision... I have only done this with New Autos that I had bought for my family...I knew the inside of the motor was spotless so the filter would not even have to break a sweat going beyond 10K miles... Cutting a few open along the way was just reassurance....

I have not done this yet on my ram... My summer oil change will be the start... The end of May is when I start my 6 months June-Nov-->Warm {Drink a Beer and Change My Oil in Shorts and Flip Flops}... I won't be wearing shorts in Dec-May with my other oil change... The oil change will be short and sweet with the Fumoto Drain Plug--->http://www.fumotousa.com/ Have these on every auto!

Good thing is the oil filter is very small so only a 1/4-1/2 of a qt of old oil is left in the motor... No harm done, since I really never push my oil beyond it's limits... I have finally settled on an oil and I know it's limits & I will never be able to stress it to that point... {All the oil filters are basically small within the 2 Edges and F150, so never more then a 1/4-1/2 qt is left in the motor... One thing to keep in mind-->I don't do this every oil change... There are times I just feel like changing the filter as well... My wifes Edge that we just bought from a close friend has 50K miles on it... I will not let the Ultra go 2 OCI... After a handful of OCI I might... They kept excellent care of it as well has the oil changed by the dealer every 3k miles...

With all of this $hit already spewed out this morning! I will finish with this-->I have been taught and believe ALL of This starts with your Air Filter! Every bit of contamination that gets past your air filter eventually ends up in your crankcase so your oil filter has to work twice as hard... This is why a CAI will never be on my Ram {Esp on a Daily Driver}! I believe they have their purpose on weekend warriors-->{JMHO}... I am more **** about my Air Filter Maintenance then I am with my oil filter... I service my Air Filters as well as totally clean the inside housings every 6 months with my oil service... I don't replace the paper filters on the edges I blow them out with compressed air and replace... My Ram & Sons F150 both have AEM Dry Flow Filters... Just Think about Your Air Filter also!

 

[raven3]

Smiley,
A while back you posted that the PUP was purchased on Amazon.
Curious what the manufacturing date was, printed on the bottom surface of the oil container.
Is Amazon selling old stock, NOS?

 

[raven3]

In the past when only conventional was used as the normal and changed in 3500 mile intervals, it was customary to change the oil filter every other OC.
But the oil filters back then had much larger surface area compared to the small 3" dia x 3" long, available today.
For example,the Fram paper media, ph8a, would fit almost any V8.
Most of us do not drive on dusty dirt roads much any more, as reflected in low silicone concentrations in UOA's..

Another thing to think about is the difference between winter and summer gasoline formulation vs oil filter life span.
Winter gasoline has more light end hydrocarbons than summer gasoline that has more heavy end hydrocarbons.
The burned hydrocarbon gasoline contaminates the motor oil. The freed up carbon has to go somewhere.
Some goes out the exhaust and some of it gets caught up in the motor oil and some of it gets traped by the oil filter.
Carbon is a solid element.
The freed up carbon elements form particles of various sizes. The filter is supposed to trap the larger carbon particles
and the smaller carbon particles get entrained in the motor oil which changes its color from light amber to brown.

 

[RodRam]

Is it now Filter Wars? Anybody who takes the time to research oil filters will learn the truth, any filter without a silicon bypass valve , syn media and metal end caps is inferior to any that have them, .... fram ultra imo ranks about third with RP and Mobil 1, being 1&2 , that said you cant go wrong with any of these and even some others down the line.


UPDATE; dumped the mobil 1 5-20 EP, put the mobil 1 5-30 full syn back in, very smooth running and quite when hot, have heard hemi tick slightly when temp was 32 drove a 300 mile trip and everything went well, did not get the 18.9 reading on my average gauge I did on last trip with PP 5-20 best reading was 16.8 so I did loose some mpg, mds seemed to be ok didn't notice the difference in engage and disengage as I did on my first try with this oil but seeing the drop in mpg I'm sure it was a factor. I went with the M1 syn ep filter this time but really saw no difference from the fram ultra had on it before. Not sure what to try now but my goal is to eliminate the cold tick, could you guys tell me which molly additive is easy to get and would do the best iyo. thanks

 

[Makin-Chips]

I'm just chiming in to "add" a little bit even though it may be a "old" little bit. Bought my truck in June 2015 at 11 miles. It's now 8 months later and I have 8700 miles. The factory fill and filter I kept in for 3000 miles, no ticking or noise at all. When I changed the filter, a lot of additional draining took place after taking the filter was off. I would say the drain valve of the filter worked exceptional. I replaced with PP 5w20 and M1 filter, and I did notice a slight tick at start up for about 2 seconds almost immediately and lasted thru the entire 4000 OCI. When I did this change I kept PP 5W20 and filter is now Fram Ultra. When I changed out the M1 filter, very little drainage occurred. Ticking went away immediately and has not returned to date. My truck spends a lot of time setting since I work from home. For what its worth and seems to work perfect for my truck. I'll keep to a 7000 mile OCI now.

This is and has been a very informative and enlightening thread!

 

[Burla]

Moly wars? lol

I would do some research on that independent then the guys here. Syn will say Lubro or Liqui moly, and I would say Lubeguards oil soluble moly. If you engine is sounding smooth, maybe it isn't even necessary since your oil has moly.

RodRam so just going to 5w30 Mobil 1 helped with your tick?

 

[SyN]

I myself have never advocated oil additives or so called engine treatments... MoS2 has millions of followers... I honestly don't know if it is the right choice... Even though my 5.7L never has ticked with the MoS2 added... It never ticked without it... Though it is so quiet and smooth with it...

I have read and read and read about the Lubeguard Bio Tech---->

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...id=1456860720&ref_=sr_1_1&s=automotive&sr=1-1

This sounds like a legit product.... I just have really no idea how much to add to a 7qt sump... We have to be careful with the amount of Zinc/Phos! This product is also getting a large following within BITOG... Lubeguard as well as Liqui Moly are highly respected companies...

I do appoligize for my long posts! I just feel obligated to totally explain myself on every matter...

I also have a comment about the Oil Filters one last time--->Either of these are Top Tier! You can't go wrong with any of these... RP/FU/M1/Amsoil/Wix XP/SRT Filter!

But always remember-->The filter that works for Burla/RLK/Nut might not have the same results on yours... Everyone of our 5.7L are different! They all are going to Respond/React differently with different products... Each owner has to experiment a little to find that Sweet Spot!

 

[RodRam]

Moly wars? lol

I would do some research on that independent then the guys here. Syn will say Lubro or Liqui moly, and I would say Lubeguards oil soluble moly. If you engine is sounding smooth, maybe it isn't even necessary since your oil has moly.

RodRam so just going to 5w30 Mobil 1 helped with your tick?

So if I went with the lubeguard or the mos2 how much do you add to your oil? As to my tick going away, no it did not however it is much lighter and less noticeable that's why I thought before dumping it id add a additive and see but I'm really not happy with the mpg loss, not sure if its a mobil1 thing or a viscosity thing as the 5-20 m1 ep oil posted less around town mpg averages than the pp 5-20, I routinely got in the 15's with pp and only high 13's with m1.

 

[RodRam]

Castrol in the ram this time ? why the change fro PUP cant you get it in 0-40 too?

 

[Burla]

I am not the person to ask about Moly additives, I know it sounds weird me preaching it since day one. I had a bad experience when I dumped a bottle of moly additive when I was trying to get rid of my own tick. My engine sounded like sand paper was in there. That is when I went to Redline. You can look up VOA's and guesstimate how much moly to bring you to 200ppm. I would caution against adding the entire bottle, as it didn't work for me. Had the moly additive worked, I would have never went to Redline Oil. I just don't want give advice that may not work for you. So like I said, I would go over to Bob's and look up what everyone is saying on Moly additives. I don't mean to weasel out of it, but I don't feel comfortable recommending moly additives that aren't oil soluble. It may turn out that the moly in suspension solves your issue, dunno.


BUT.. let us know what you try and how it worked/didnt work.

 

[Burla]

Found Syn's golden Moly link again PDF, Rodram and to the guy who emailed me you can look at page 32, with Organic oil soluble moly (like Redline oil) it takes time for the bond to happen. Looking at the moly in suspension, according to this pdf, those suspension particles would only be .3 microns, so should be pretty safe to use, don't know what happened to me when I used it.

 

[raven3]

When calling the Champ lab the representative advised both Fram Ultra & M1ep motor oil filters where both manufactured by Champ Labs.
And
Both filters had very similar specifications.

 

[RodRam]

So tell us about the Castrol blk edge, from my readings it has almost no molly , 4 ppm or something like that, so do you plan to add it ?also why not the magnatec version that is said to cling to metal and have a ester base additive from the 4 youtube vids from Castrol this sounds like the oil needed for the hemi tick, has anyone used the magnatec oil? here is video 4 it has most of the info but if you open it up on youtube you will see the first 3 listed too' this stuff has been around for years was called start up in the 90's so surely somebody should have good today info, most of what I found on btog was old.
https://youtu.be/XaO-StW7A9Y

 

[Burla]

I would love to know how many % if any esters are in Magnatec. One thing you may consider if you believe esters are the answer, like I do as well, is add one quart of Redline to your current oil. Boost your moly and add esters, and if you go thick like 40 weight, you will also gain film strength. One thing is in my experience, even though I used ester based formula it still took 500 miles for my tick to disappear. It leads me to believe the moly is what helped my tick more then the esters. The science is clear, oil soluble moly takes time, high pressure between surfaces and heat cycles to seep in. So if it was the esters that helped my tick, I would have no answer why it would take 500 miles to work. Anything is possible, my brain is just connecting dots that I know of, for all I know it was the extra zinc in redline that smoothed down the sharp edges. Really just conjecture on my part, but it makes the best sense it was the moly IMO.

Kinda sucks we have to have these conversations when other truck brands do not. One downside of Hemi's I guess.

 

[RodRam]

Well I can tell you the 5-30 m1 is doing ok but the mds is acting different and the mpg is down, this is a 15 model so maybe something is a little different from older model years. So I'm determined to find a 5-20 or 0-20 oil that works for me. Castrol Magnatec is looking very good as a candidate for a try. Also in my research I found Honda 5-30 syn has 1200ppm of moly and Toyotas brand had 1220 that's very close to redline if your looking for high molly oil and find some cheap somewhere.

 

[Burla]

Redline ranges between 550 and 880ppm, the cost of Redline comes from the cost to make an ester base. But I would love to hear if Magnetec became a viable option for ticking Hemi's. Keep us informed.

 

[RodRam]

Thanks Syn, so what would you think I should try the magnatec 0-20 or the 5-20? is there a big difference in the two?