Brake Controller

[delta ram]

how do i access the itbm wiring so i can connect my p3 where is the gray plug located?

 

[delta ram]

Never mind i found Boss Hogs helpful post and pix thanks

 

[WoodturnerII]

I have read the entire thread on this problem and have come to the conclusion this is not only a hardware problem but also related to the software. I have a 2013 Ram 1500 that has the same characteristics. I pull an Arctic Fox trailer with Alco 5200 axles with 12 X 2 brakes and have very limited stopping capability. The dealer has tested the output of the controller and on light electric gets 7.9 amps. On the heavy electric setting the output falls to under 7. I have installed an after market controller to solve the problem until FCA comes up with a solution.

I believe most of the people who have 2013 or 2014 trucks have given up on the factory controller and have installed an after market product and may not be following this thread. That is why most of the postings are from individuals who own 2015 trucks. Maybe the hardware changed but the problem existed long before 2015 which leads me to believe it is also software related.

 

[loveracing1988]

I have read the entire thread on this problem and have come to the conclusion this is not only a hardware problem but also related to the software. I have a 2013 Ram 1500 that has the same characteristics. I pull an Arctic Fox trailer with Alco 5200 axles with 12 X 2 brakes and have very limited stopping capability. The dealer has tested the output of the controller and on light electric gets 7.9 amps. On the heavy electric setting the output falls to under 7. I have installed an after market controller to solve the problem until FCA comes up with a solution.

I believe most of the people who have 2013 or 2014 trucks have given up on the factory controller and have installed an after market product and may not be following this thread. That is why most of the postings are from individuals who own 2015 trucks. Maybe the hardware changed but the problem existed long before 2015 which leads me to believe it is also software related.

My 2013 1500 would lock up the brakes on my dad's enclosed trailer, I loved the brake controller on that truck.

 

[BossHogg]

I have read the entire thread on this problem and have come to the conclusion this is not only a hardware problem but also related to the software. I have a 2013 Ram 1500 that has the same characteristics. I pull an Arctic Fox trailer with Alco 5200 axles with 12 X 2 brakes and have very limited stopping capability. The dealer has tested the output of the controller and on light electric gets 7.9 amps. On the heavy electric setting the output falls to under 7. I have installed an after market controller to solve the problem until FCA comes up with a solution.

I believe most of the people who have 2013 or 2014 trucks have given up on the factory controller and have installed an after market product and may not be following this thread. That is why most of the postings are from individuals who own 2015 trucks. Maybe the hardware changed but the problem existed long before 2015 which leads me to believe it is also software related.

You have another issue going on, it isn't your ITBM. I have a 2013 and the ITBM works perfectly (like loveracing stated), it does not limit output based on speed like it does on my 2015.

 

[Kwhite]

You have another issue going on, it isn't your ITBM. I have a 2013 and the ITBM works perfectly (like loveracing stated), it does not limit output based on speed like it does on my 2015.

My 2014 Ram worked perfectly

 

[SyN]

If my 2014 Bighorn come with a tow package with NO Brake Controller is this what I need--->

13 14 Dodge RAM Integrated Electronic Trailer Brake Controller Mopar 82213474 | eBay

And have the dealer install it?

 

[Totesmygoats]

As someone with a 2013 whos brake controller works great, but is upgrading to a 2016 currently, this thread worries me. I've been looking but have not found yet a description of how to properly test this. Can anyone recommend a cheapish scope to test with? I could pull readings from my current truck and then the new one when it comes in a month or two.

Luckily I'm not too worried because we have a 2 year lemon law in my state which would provide a full refund if they couldn't fix it.

 

[loveracing1988]

As someone with a 2013 whos brake controller works great, but is upgrading to a 2016 currently, this thread worries me. I've been looking but have not found yet a description of how to properly test this. Can anyone recommend a cheapish scope to test with? I could pull readings from my current truck and then the new one when it comes in a month or two.

Luckily I'm not too worried because we have a 2 year lemon law in my state which would provide a full refund if they couldn't fix it.

I wouldn't rely on the lemon law. Ram says the brake controller is operating as designed so you would have a hard time winning that case.

 

[Totesmygoats]

I wouldn't rely on the lemon law. Ram says the brake controller is operating as designed so you would have a hard time winning that case.

You don't know anything about florida lemon law. If a service tech farts in your car, you get a new one because of the smell.

No seriously though, it's extraordinarily weighted in the consumers favor, if you read the cases (which are available online) the consumer almost always wins, from squeaking noises to a "smell from the ac". And the manufacturer always takes the defense of "it's normal" and the arbitration committee always completely ignores them. Pretty much the only losers are people who are disqualified (over 10k, commercial vehicles etc) or the most ridiculous claims. It's also mandated as an arbitration hearing, not a court case, and you do not need a lawyer (its not a pre trial arbitration either, it's simply and only arbitration)

When the consumer asks, they get reimbursed for all expenses as well, such as rental cars.

 

[loveracing1988]

You don't know anything about florida lemon law. If a service tech farts in your car, you get a new one because of the smell.

No seriously though, it's extraordinarily weighted in the consumers favor, if you read the cases (which are available online) the consumer almost always wins, from squeaking noises to a "smell from the ac" Pretty much the only losers are people who are disqualified (over 10k, commercial vehicles etc) or the most ridiculous claims. It's also mandated as an arbitration hearing, not a court case, and you do not need a lawyer (its not a pre trial arbitration either, it's simply and only arbitration)

When the consumer asks, they get reimbursed for all expenses as well, such as rental cars.

Must be nice. In Michigan you need an act of God to win.

 

[Totesmygoats]

Must be nice. In Michigan you need an act of God to win.

That sucks but why do you think that? My understanding was that this was typical in most states that everything is stacked in the consumers favor and all the onus is on the manufacturer.

 

[monteholic]

we in Michigan also have the highest auto insurance costs in the country!!!!

 

[Totesmygoats]

I do not have first hand knowledge of the ITBM in a 2014 RAM, just 2013 and 2015. The results you are showing are characteristic of the problem I see with MY15 ITBM. The actual speed number is 30 MPH on my 2015, above 30MPH I see 96% output or about 12.5 volts, ample to stop my trailer.

Finally got through the thread. Bosshog, it looks like you confirmed that the brake controller works like chrysler (possibly stupidly) intended it to, in that it only gives partial output even it maximum baking below 30mph, then does give full output above 30mph?

That has to be fun coming to a stop... stoping like normal stopping like normal.... 29 mph..... not stopping anymore....

 

[loveracing1988]

That sucks but why do you think that? My understanding was that this was typical in most states that everything is stacked in the consumers favor and all the onus is on the manufacturer.

I never fully pursued it but I was going to lemon law my fusion. I was essentially told by a lemon law lawyer that since Ford was calling it operating as designed and or no problem found I had no shot at winning.

 

[BossHogg]

I never fully pursued it but I was going to lemon law my fusion. I was essentially told by a lemon law lawyer that since Ford was calling it operating as designed and or no problem found I had no shot at winning.

Take this facet of the issue with the ITBM. The only documentation we have is what is published in the owner's manual and it says a lot. First it tells us it has been designed and verified with electric trailer brakes. Well, we know this isn't completely true.

Next is this paragraph, "Slide the manual brake control lever to the left to activate power to the trailer’s electric brakes independent of the tow vehicle’s brakes. If the manual brake control lever is activated while the brake is also applied, the greater of the two inputs determines the power sent to the trailer brakes." No mention of vehicle speed dependence.

Then they talk about gain, "The GAIN setting is used to set the trailer brake control for the specific towing condition and should be changed as towing conditions change. Changes to towing conditions include trailer load, vehicle load, road conditions and weather." So they do understand heavier trailers will need a higher gain setting. Now you are getting into the core of the issue and this clearly establishes the first data point that the ITBM does not work as intended.

Next is the how to procedure to set gain. You are told to set the gain at speeds of 20 to 25 MPH, well below the 30 MPH threshold that limits the ITBM's output to 70%. Under this published process, it is impossible to properly set the gain. The second data point that boldly demonstrates there is an issue with the ITBM.

I'm going to have to test this out but I believe that if it was intentional to reduce the ITBM's output to 70% at speeds under 30MPH, then the output of the brake controller should be with respect to the gain setting at speeds under 30 MPH.

I have one repair attempt, this in itself is recognition there is an issue, the dealer had my truck for two weeks. In michigan I need three repair attempts within the first year or I'm out of luck. I have a solution, the Prodigy P2, albeit I wish RAM would correct the behavior of the ITBM or refund my money.

 

[Totesmygoats]

In michigan I need three repair attempts within the first year or I'm out of luck. I have a solution, the Prodigy P2, albeit I wish RAM would correct the behavior of the ITBM or refund my money.

No no no, that's not how it works! You must go in for the issue the FIRST time within 1 year of delivery, you did that so check mark there.

Now if they fix it and it breaks again, or if they don't fix it at all, if you take it in 3 more times for repair for the same problem during the NEXT 2 years from date of initial fix or attempted fix, you qualify to seek a refund

In other words, you definitely qualify based on time, not sure how many repair attempts you have made, but you are still in the window for a refund, and will be for 2 years form the initial attempt.


Also, I don't believe "working as intended" is a valid defense here. Any idiot (especially a judge) can understand that if you're trying to come to a stop and apply 100% brakes, 100% brakes should go to your trailer as well, regardless of speed.

This "idea" should have been implemented as a menu choice as "anti trailer wheel lockup" or something. It's a safety issue, any competent attorney should be able to get this through.

 

[loveracing1988]

No no no, that's not how it works! You must go in for the issue the FIRST time within 1 year of delivery, you did that so check mark there.

Now if they fix it and it breaks again, or if they don't fix it at all, if you take it in 3 more times for repair for the same problem during the NEXT 2 years from date of initial fix or attempted fix, you qualify to seek a refund

In other words, you definitely qualify based on time, not sure how many repair attempts you have made, but you are still in the window for a refund, and will be for 2 years form the initial attempt.

They must have changed it then, because the last lemon law info I saw that came with my fusion was everything has to be done in 1 year. If it isn't taken care of in 1 year you are sol.

 

[Totesmygoats]

They must have changed it then, because the last lemon law info I saw that came with my fusion was everything has to be done in 1 year. If it isn't taken care of in 1 year you are sol.

I'm just going by your attorney general; https://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-17337_20942-252777--,00.html

Edit; statutes confirm

The same defect or condition that substantially impairs the use or value of the new motor vehicle to the consumer has been subject to repair a total of 4 or more times by the manufacturer or new motor vehicle dealer within 2 years of the date of the first attempt to repair the defect or condition, and the defect or condition continues to exist. Any repair performed on the same defect made pursuant to subsection (6) shall be included in calculating the number of repairs under this section.

 

[loveracing1988]

I'm just going by your attorney general; https://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-17337_20942-252777--,00.html

Edit; statutes confirm

Yeah, they changed it.