Brake Controller

[Totesmygoats]

Yeah, they changed it.

No they didn't, it's been that way for two decades. You just read it wrong.

 

[BossHogg]

Yeah, they changed it.

No they didn't, it's been that way for two decades. You just read it wrong.

I seem to remember differently also. The last lemon law I did was a 2003 Yukon XL. It actually fell under the 30 day in service bays in the first 6 months rule before the third repair attempt. I remember putting together my letter for the third service repair attempt but doesn't matter. It is what is on the law books today so thank you for bringing that knowledge forward.

Maybe forcing lemon law claims by enough owners would get the automotive giant to move, I don't know. My truck is going in for service tomorrow morning, one of the three issues is the ITBM. I'm going to approach the issue with how to set the gain if the output is limited argument.

Also, I don't believe "working as intended" is a valid defense here. Any idiot (especially a judge) can understand that if you're trying to come to a stop and apply 100% brakes, 100% brakes should go to your trailer as well, regardless of speed.

Are you implying judges are idiots (just yanking the chain).

You have never gone through a BBB arbitration have you. This where core logic and right and wrong are not the rules.

You are right, this is as simple of common sense as you can get and is supported by the definition of proportional braking. The one danger is falling to arbitration by BBB. I went that route once and never will again. The arbitrators are volunteers, in my case a few well meaning socker moms that hadn't a clue on automotive technology. They sided with the automaker rep (who wasn't present) because she said that the condition was normal. Long story but it was a case of exhaust drone and it was quite excessive.

 

[Totesmygoats]

I seem to remember differently also. The last lemon law I did was a 2003 Yukon XL. It actually fell under the 30 day in service bays in the first 6 months rule before the third repair attempt. I remember putting together my letter for the third service repair attempt but doesn't matter. It is what is on the law books today so thank you for bringing that knowledge forward.

Yea the history is right there though, the last time it was amended was 1998.

Maybe forcing lemon law claims by enough owners would get the automotive giant to move, I don't know. My truck is going in for service tomorrow morning, one of the three issues is the ITBM. I'm going to approach the issue with how to set the gain if the output is limited argument.

I don't understand what's taking so long. I mean I sort of do because to change anything 100 people will have to sign up. But this isn't a hardware fix, it's purely a coding fix. They might be afraid of the cost of a recall, but they could just fix it and make it part of any update package and offer it as a voluntary update. Like I said, if they think it's such a great idea, it should be an option in the menu, not default and unchangeable.

The one danger is falling to arbitration by BBB. I went that route once and never will again. The arbitrators are volunteers, in my case a few well meaning socker moms that hadn't a clue on automotive technology. They sided with the automaker rep (how wasn't present) because she said that the condition was normal. Long story but it was a case of exhaust drone and it was quite excessive.

Wait what? The BBB doesn't arbitrate lemon law. The BBB is also not a government organization, despite being "non profit" they are right up there with companies like yelp by basically extorting money out of companies in order to boost their ratings.

 

[Kwhite]

Not to be a D!@# but , u were told u would be given a rental car and not be reimbursed for an aftermarket controller cause of the warranty. . But. U paid for a factory controller and a TRUCK that has a job to do and you're extremely happy?
They must love customers like you!

UPDATE
Just heard From Ram customer care, they are giving me a 5 year paint and interior warranty for scratches, dents, rips and tears, AND a 7 year Tire and Wheel warranty with towing and trip interruption!

 

[craigwhitten]

UPDATE
Just heard From Ram customer care, they are giving me a 5 year paint and interior warranty for scratches, dents, rips and tears, AND a 7 year Tire and Wheel warranty with towing and trip interruption!

Now all you need is an actual working trailer brake controller.

 

[Kwhite]

For now i have the aftermarket one which works good, hopefully Ram will do something about their controller!

 

[delta ram]

Update during the first trip with my new p3 controller i had a SERVICE AIR SUSPENSION MSG come on when i took it to the dealer they found that when the ITBC is disconnected a code is set to fix this they had to remove the ITBC from the program and so far all is clear.

 

[dogbreath650]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the good info in this thread. Without reading I probably would be still using the OEM controller. After reading the posts I tested out my 16' car hauler without a load and couldn't get the tires to lock up at < or > 30 mph on dirt roads, not good. I had a Prodigy P3 from my last truck ad put it in and was easily able to lock up the trailer tires so the trailer was not the problem, the OEM controller was.

Installing the P3 was really easy, hardest part was getting the plug out of the ITBM, strong fingers help. I mounted it where BossHogg has his but mounted it slightly higher up on the dash and tilted it up so the face of the unit is pointed at me and easy to see. I did this after researching the P3 mounting on the web which showed me that it only has to be level side to side that it can be tilted up with no problem. Another benefit to this mounting is that I don't contact it with my right leg and the manual lever is easy to get to.

This is an awesome truck and so far this brake controller is the only complaint I have. Although annoying and something that we shouldn't have to deal with there is no way I would consider a lemon law turn in - what else would I get, a Ford

Just a thought on why RAM is not dealing with this. They have a lot of smart engineers so I don't think its that they can't figure out a fix, I think its that the lawyers won't let them do a fix. Maybe something about not trusting the average consumer to safely adjust their own brakes??

 

[monteholic]

I finally had a chance to pull my 24' car hauler (4400#'s empty, light electric, gain set at 5) and my controller was working very well on my '16 PW so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be fine when it's loaded

 

[BossHogg]

Update during the first trip with my new p3 controller i had a SERVICE AIR SUSPENSION MSG come on when i took it to the dealer they found that when the ITBC is disconnected a code is set to fix this they had to remove the ITBC from the program and so far all is clear.

Only disconnect the four wire connector, leave the other connector in place and the truck will not know about it.

Just a thought on why RAM is not dealing with this. They have a lot of smart engineers so I don't think its that they can't figure out a fix, I think its that the lawyers won't let them do a fix. Maybe something about not trusting the average consumer to safely adjust their own brakes??

If Chrysler has a lot of smart engineers, which I question, they were not involved with the ITBM. Releasing a brake controller that disables trailing braking (seen with trailers that need more than 7 volts for braking) at speeds below 30MPH would never have made it past design reviews let alone into production. And if they did have talent, this issue would have been address when it first became an issue last year.

I agree with you, it is a awesome truck, the features they provided for towing are unmatched, air leveling rear suspension, cargo cam, towing prep group (Ford has and GM is now offering). Then there is the interior quality which makes long travel days easier is also unmatched by GM and Ford. How they could do so much right and screw up something as simple as a brake controller, which function correctly the previous two model years, is beyond me.

 

[Totesmygoats]

Releasing a brake controller that disables trailing braking (seen with trailers that need more than 7 volts for braking)

What brakes were on your trailer again? I never saw clarification on this. Do your brakes not brake *at all* below 7 volts or is it just (obviously) substantially reduced to the point you can't even lock the wheels on an empty trailer.

 

[reek]

I finally had a chance to pull my 24' car hauler (4400#'s empty, light electric, gain set at 5) and my controller was working very well on my '16 PW so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be fine when it's loaded

Mine seems to be working fine too. Initially I thought it was weaker than my 2014 1500 but I think I was feeling the extra 2000 lbs of the truck. So far, I've towed my dual axle flat bed trailer with about 8000 lbs and I can get the brakes to give a good tug at the truck if the gain is set too high (using light electric mode). Haven't tried to lock up the wheels though. And the manual slide lever on the ITBM will keep the truck stopped even with no pedal pressure.

my 2500 build date is 3/15 so it should have the newer p/n module. Haven't tested the brakes on any other trailer though. incidentally, I also don't get the tire pressure warning with the fronts down to 50 and rears at 60. Bought the truck new so no idea what the deal is - not that I'm complaining.

 

[BossHogg]

What brakes were on your trailer again? I never saw clarification on this. Do your brakes not brake *at all* below 7 volts or is it just (obviously) substantially reduced to the point you can't even lock the wheels on an empty trailer.

It is a long thread and everything is here somewhere.

The RV has a set of Dexter 7K pound axles with 12x2 electric brakes. They need 10.5 volts to begin achieving forceful braking, Dexter told me they expect the full 12 volts for a full braking effort, just like the break-away system provides. The ITBM cuts its output to a maximum of 70% or about 7 volts at a gain of 10 when the travel speed falls below 30 MPH. At 7 volts the best I get is a slight drag, not enough to stop travel at engine idle.

By cutting output power to a maximum of 7 volts when the travel speed falls below 30 MPH, the ITBM is disabling my trailer's brakes putting the burden of the stop on the tow vehicle. In a fast stopping action that we all encounter from time to time, this condition is the base formula for a heart attack.

In contrast, my flatbed utility trailer has a set of Dexter 3K axles which need 6 volts to lock the wheels so no issues with this trailer, just with the RV.

 

[Totesmygoats]

The RV has a set of Dexter 7K pound axles with 12x2 electric brakes. They need 10.5 volts to begin achieving forceful braking, Dexter told me they expect the full 12 volts for a full braking effort, just like the break-away system provides.

Yea I knew the rest, this is the part I wasn't sure on.

That sucks because those are the axles my next trailer will have. That is a surprising low range of voltage to provide useful braking though, kind of a poor design on their part as well.

Do you have a recommendation for a cheap oscope so I can check this all out when my 2016 comes in?

 

[BossHogg]

Yea I knew the rest, this is the part I wasn't sure on.

That sucks because those are the axles my next trailer will have. That is a surprising low range of voltage to provide useful braking though, kind of a poor design on their part as well.

Do you have a recommendation for a cheap oscope so I can check this all out when my 2016 comes in?

I use a Picoscope (100MHz dual channel), perfect for using with a laptop since the scope is powered by the USB port. You don't need a scope to measure the voltage on the brake line, despite repeated claims from Chrysler, you CAN measure the voltage of a PWM signal, even the $3 DVMs Harborfreight gives out for free will measure the equivalent voltage of the brake signal.

Here is the post of my Dexter axle tag if it is of any help to you.
http://www.ramforum.com/f119/brake_controller-71708/index39.html#post1220891

 

[Cpylot]

Took a break from this thread for awhile, it was just getting too frustrating following it all.
The 6.4 3500 that I ordered should be here next week and now after catching up with all of the posts from the last 3 weeks or so, it seems that everything is still SNAFU.

Has anyone that was in contact with Erica the RAMCARES rep had any positive follow-up or is it still just lip service?

I really would rather not have to slap an aftermarket controller on my brand new pickup if I can avoid it, but I also don't want a 14k horse trailer pushing me over a minivan full of kids.

 

[BossHogg]

Has anyone that was in contact with Erica the RAMCARES rep had any positive follow-up or is it still just lip service?

I really would rather not have to slap an aftermarket controller on my brand new pickup if I can avoid it, but I also don't want a 14k horse trailer pushing me over a minivan full of kids.

She reached out to me wanting me to bring my truck and trailer to a specified dealership and demonstrate the issue to a dealership person who would arrange for a loaner vehicle while they took my truck/trailer to Chrysler.

After thinking about it I replied with a condition, that I demonstrate the issue directly to Chrysler's engineers. She took that back but was declined due to liability issues.

I replied that I could demonstrate the issue with a trailer brake simulator but that too was declined. I'm troubled Chrysler engineering can't figure this out, it is so blatantly obvious, why do they need my truck and trailer? The ITBM worked correctly in previous years, and you can't set the gain as detailed in the owner's' manual, what don't they get?

This may offer a glimps to the root problems;
What FCA employees need to hear from their leaders

As far as Erica and lip service, no, she has done what she could and was timely in her communications. She hits the same brick wall we do, just at a different place.

 

[Totesmygoats]

She reached out to me wanting me to bring my truck and trailer to a specified dealership and demonstrate the issue to a dealership person who would arrange for a loaner vehicle while they took my truck/trailer to Chrysler.

After thinking about it I replied with a condition, that I demonstrate the issue directly to Chrysler's engineers. She took that back but was declined due to liability issues.

I replied that I could demonstrate the issue with a trailer brake simulator but that too was declined. I'm troubled Chrysler engineering can't figure this out, it is so blatantly obvious, why do they need my truck and trailer? The ITBM worked correctly in previous years, and you can't set the gain as detailed in the owner's' manual, what don't they get?

This may offer a glimps to the root problems;
What FCA employees need to hear from their leaders

As far as Erica and lip service, no, she has done what she could and was timely in her communications. She hits the same brick wall we do, just at a different place.

Yea, having someone from the dealership "take your truck and trailer to Chrysler" is a bit of a huge ask. Was it just vague like that or did they specify at all what that meant? I mean is a 18 year old porter going to drive your combo 5 states over or is a chrysler guy flying in ETC.

I can't believe they need to see your truck at all, they could literally confirm this off any truck in 5 minutes.

I wonder if whats really going on is they are trying to confirm that 7 volts on your trailer results in little to no braking, because some engineer somewhere is going "no that's not right, it should still be braking strongly, we're not taking this "feature" out over one guys complaint until we confirm this" or something.

 

[DannyMK2]

FCA more then likely won't admit there is an issue or do anything to correct it until they get some heat from it....ie: bad press. that probably wont happen until somebody gets hurt unfortunately. right now ignoring this issue isn't costing them anything...if they admit the controller is faulty (be it something as simple as a software flash that might only equal an hours worth of labor), its going to cost them. its no different then the whole GM ignition switch fiasco. its cheaper to ignore until you start getting sued so thats whats going to happen.

the best bet for getting them to fix anything before that happens would be to contact the media. maybe get one of those youtube reviewers to do a segment on ram towing with emphasis on how crappy the OEM controller is. make people aware of the issue. truthfully, i would have no idea about the faulty controller if it wasn't for this forum. im sure theres plenty of people out there just as clueless in that regard.

 

[Totesmygoats]

FCA more then likely won't admit there is an issue or do anything to correct it until they get some heat from it....ie: bad press. that probably wont happen until somebody gets hurt unfortunately. right now ignoring this issue isn't costing them anything...if they admit the controller is faulty (be it something as simple as a software flash that might only equal an hours worth of labor), its going to cost them. its no different then the whole GM ignition switch fiasco. its cheaper to ignore until you start getting sued so thats whats going to happen.

the best bet for getting them to fix anything before that happens would be to contact the media. maybe get one of those youtube reviewers to do a segment on ram towing with emphasis on how crappy the OEM controller is. make people aware of the issue. truthfully, i would have no idea about the faulty controller if it wasn't for this forum. im sure theres plenty of people out there just as clueless in that regard.

That's what the NHTSA is SUPPOSED to be for. I think bosshog contacted them though and not much came out of it.