Towing an RV Trailer

Ratket · Mar 14, 2018

That power wagon should feel pretty stout, especially if when a load is hooked up to it and it doesn’t even lvl it out. After all those coils are pretty soft. All in all it comes down to how safe and comfortable you feel while towing with it.

mfifield01 · Mar 14, 2018

Rader said:
Respectfully read what I said more carefully. I did NOT say "if you did not notice sway there is no good reason to use a WDH". I said "If a person owns a trailer that never sways there is not a good reason to waste money adding sway control devises."

Also note that I quoted the person the information in my post was intended for, it was specific to his ride. He has a power wagon, 6.4L 4X4 it is vastly different than your cut & paste example. PW's curb weighs over 7,000 and the front is over 1,200 heavier than the rear so no reason to transfer more weight to the front. The example of poor traction in 2wd I gave was my 2500 4X4 that is a diesel. My TT hitch weight is between 750 and 800 lbs and transferring some of that to the front would be foolish because empty the rear is light and lacks traction.

If you read all my post in this thread you would know I own an Equal-i-zer brand WDH and I did use it when towing with my WJ Grand Cherokee so I am more than a little versed in it's use. I have been using it on my 1500 4X4 EcoDiesel not because 800 lbs is lifting the front wheels off the ground but because I leveled the truck so any load make people hate my aftermarket bright low beams. Also of interest for winter driving I got stuck turning my TT around in my yard in snow, I disconnected the WDH and with the extra weigh on the rear wheels helping out the rear limited slip I got unstuck without chaining up.

We do disagree on brakes. Pickups are designed to carry a payload in the box, I bought my first brand new 3/4 ton PU in 1968, it was a GMC with a 396 C.I. engine and auto trans, that was also before antilock brakes. Didn't matter what brand of truck, empty we had to be careful during emergency stops without a load in the box because the rear wheels would tend to lock and slide before well before the fronts locked. When anti locks came on scene many trucks came with just antilock brakes on the rear axle because of this. Most PUs have 4 wheel anti lock now so braking is not something I would lose sleep over. (EDIT) another little detail that should not be overlooked is when towing a trailer they usually have brakes if larger than a small utility trailer.

As a reference point. Your 750-800 lb hitch weight probably took 400 lbs off of the front and put 1200 lbs on the rear axle. you probably have ~3000 lbs on your front axle and ~3600 lbs on your rear axle. I have CAT scale numbers on mine with and without WDH.

Ocelot · Mar 14, 2018

A good weight distribution hitch can be very beneficial even if not absolutely needed. As already mentioned it put's lost weight back on to the front steering wheels. It also greatly reduces porpoising when going over dips and bumps in the road which can really reduce weight on the front axles to very little.

Personally, I use the Equalizer brand which also adds significant sway control.
When towing a full height heavy camper which acts like a giant wind sail, any added safety and control is a good thing to have, even if it's just for those out of the ordinary towing moments that can happen, especially in emergency situations.

MasonD21 · Mar 14, 2018

Ratket said:
That power wagon should feel pretty stout, especially if when a load is hooked up to it and it doesn’t even lvl it out. After all those coils are pretty soft.

Exactly. The coils are soft, so the truck can do what it's really designed to do (flex and articulate), but I will say that I've been impressed at how little the suspension compresses under vertical loads (box full of green firewood for example, barely leveled out the rear with the front). I'm right about 1/2 inch higher in the rear than the front with my trailer on, but I also don't load the box with heavy things while also having the trailer, for payload reasons.

I'm going to take the advise of others and go to a CAT scale here sometime soon. If the truck is pretty solid front to rear, I won't worry about a WDH. I have a feeling I'm still heavier on the steer axles without it. The truck does feel very stout, and I really dont have any reason to tow much more weight than I already am. It's a gimped 3/4-ton in towing and payload, but I'm ok with that. Still a 6.4L beast.

Rader · Mar 14, 2018

If my 3/4 or 1/2 ton PU could not be safely be driven and did not handle well with a load in the bed or If I could not drive it with a load in the bed or towing a trailer without having a nervous breakdown because there was more weight on the rear axle than the front axle I would sell the truck, sell my TT sell my in bed camper, sell my 5 ATV trailer and sell my car hauler trailer buy a Lexus and stay at motels. LOL.

Granted some drivers need all the help they can get, I did not feel comfortable with my wife driving my WJ even with the Equal-i-Zer hook up on flat straight freeways. But with me behind the wheel I felt 100% safe towing the camper pictured below over the Bear Tooth Highway and all over the west without a WDH. I do feel safe with her driving my 1500 on the freeway with or without the WDH because it is not squirrelly either way.

I really do not worry about more weight on the rear axle and do not understand why people are so paranoid about using a truck like a truck. My 3/4 ton Ram has been as far east a Maine and west as far as Homer Alaska with a 10.6 " camper had a generator in the right rear and holding tanks toward the rear that weighs 3,300 dry + it has a 50 gallon fresh water tank. Is there more weight on the rear axle? hell yes, wayyy more. But the truck drives fine with that load and for long pavement trips I used a set of Rickson 19.5" wheels with Michelin EZE tires.

Not only that with the camper loaded during trips to drive offroad trail or to hunt and fish I often towed a Jeep or my Toyota flatbed Truck on a towbar. I have also towed my car hauler trailer with the Toyota on it, never have used WDH on my car hauler, other than up hill it tows like it isn't there.

In fact when I wanted a new truck I found the exact EcoDiesel I wanted but it was in Arkansas. Took my 2500 pulled the car hauler back there loaded my new truck and if the speed limit was 80 my speedometer was on 80. I never have used a WHD on a car hauler trailer I owned or rented. The picture of the load on my Tacoma is for the hunters here. Definitely lifted some weight off the Tacoma's front axle but If that amount of weight on the bed was cause a handling problem I failed to notice it driving the over 100 miles home.

TruckNut · Mar 14, 2018

I tow our 24' (overall length) Retro which is 3750 dry, 360 lbs. tongue weight and use both a WDH and a sway friction bar. Tows extremely well with my half ton, but we are well within limits. I do believe trailer manufacturers really skimp on weight quotes as they don't account for dual propane tanks, battery, water etc. Best to have a safety margin.

Ocelot · Mar 14, 2018

TruckNut said:
I tow our 24' (overall length) Retro which is 3750 dry, 360 lbs. tongue weight and use both a WDH and a sway friction bar. Tows extremely well with my half ton, but we are well within limits. I do believe trailer manufacturers really skimp on weight quotes as they don't account for dual propane tanks, battery, water etc. Best to have a safety margin.

View attachment 122710

Love the retro look trailer! Very nice!

TruckNut · Mar 14, 2018

Ocelot said:
Love the retro look trailer! Very nice!

Thanks, we do love it as well. This is our second Retro, first one was a 2014 175 which was a very cool single axle trailer, but the room in this is amazing for being under 24' overall. Plus we each have a side of the bed to get out of so my wife doesn't have to climb over me--not that I minded :Big Laugh:

Ocelot · Mar 14, 2018

TruckNut said:
Thanks, we do love it as well. This is our second Retro, first one was a 2014 175 which was a very cool single axle trailer, but the room in this is amazing for being under 24' overall. Plus we each have a side of the bed to get out of so my wife doesn't have to climb over me--not that I minded

Is that the 189R? We loved the interior of those when we saw them at a show and it was in our top 2 or 3. We ended up with a Forest River 2109s because of it having a slideout and a sofa with table instead of a dinette which we never use. Ours is very similar in size to yours.

TruckNut · Mar 14, 2018

Ocelot said:
Is that the 189R? We loved the interior of those when we saw them at a show and it was in our top 2 or 3. We ended up with a Forest River 2109s because of it having a slideout and a sofa with table instead of a dinette which we never use. Ours is very similar in size to yours.

View attachment 122718

It sure is a 189R. We got the "birch" interior package as we wanted the "cabin feel", lol. Your's looks great and FR has been making slides for quite a while. Retro had the smaller unit with a slide but they're new to the slide game and reliability a ?? for me. Slides sure do increase floor space! Your model was also in the top 3 for us as it has a great floor plan, but we use a dinette more.

pcschwenke · Mar 15, 2018

Tbaker65-to be perfectly honest I do look around and see a lot of 2500 trucks overloaded. Especially diesels. Regardless whether the axles are the same, the springs are going to bottom out and give a poor ride & weight distribution. I guess playing by the rules works for me. Two years ago I did tow a 9200lb trailer around thinking it’s fine. Power wise the 1/2 did fine, but the ride sucked. I paid less for my 1 ton Laramie than my 1/2 ton sport!

tbaker65 · Mar 16, 2018

pcschwenke said:
Tbaker65-to be perfectly honest I do look around and see a lot of 2500 trucks overloaded.

I don't doubt it pc. I'm betting a lot of guys out there towing/hauling with their trucks are unaware of their specific limits and how towing, WDHs, etc., affects the payload, etc. Those that are unaware and don't seek out this info are probably the same ones that are more likely not to be concerned with knowing how much they are towing/loading, and thus the same ones overloading without knowing/caring. Hook up, load up and go... If the truck doesn't sag 'too much' we're good to go...

I'd also bet the opposite is true. Those of us reading this forum and others, trying to learn more about towing/payloads, equipment, etc., and finding out and being aware of our vehicle specs/limits are WAY more likely not to be overloading, being unsafe, etc.

As has been stated several times in these debates - knowing your limits/capabilities and staying within them, all series of these Rams are fine, capable* trucks.

The fine print: *Within their limits

Ocelot · Mar 16, 2018

tbaker65- Good points. The other thing that many folks don't realize is that trailer tongue weight is not the same as regular cargo weight in the bed and effects the weight on steer axles much differently. Tongue weight isn't even in the truck bed, it's on the ball which is behind the entire truck. It acts as a short crude lever with the rear axle being the fulcrum . We've all known since Archimedes how much weight can be shifted using a lever and fulcrum

Ocelot · Mar 16, 2018

Also important, to little tongue weight can be very dangerous. Here's a cool 30 second video that demonstrates it:

MasonD21 · Mar 16, 2018

I remember seeing this video a couple years ago. The video itself should be stickied in the forum, lol.

"A picture (in this case, video) is worth 1,000 words (or 100 posts!)"

:Caffeine:

GsRAM · Mar 16, 2018

Yep, that's a classic. Some will critique it, but to me there's not a much better example of what can happen with improper trailer cargo loading and not having enough tongue weight.

pilgrim6 · Mar 16, 2018

Some guys need to check out the movie, "The Long long trailer." Lucille ball/ Dezi Arnez. Talk about overloaded towing! Of course it didn't have any slides, but the tow vehicle was,,what a 1955 Mercury?
We have come a long way, baby.

Rader · Mar 17, 2018

LOL The old movies are true to the times in this country. But still.... today in parts of the world the load on the truck in "The Grapes of Wrath" wouldn't get a second look.

I'm sure glad back in the 1960s I didn't have all the internet wisdom I have have gained in the last few decades. Or in my early 20s the wife and I wouldn't have hooked a little T trailer behind a brand new Volvo PV544 and drove from Rhode Island to Seattle. Then turned around drove from Seattle to Spokane, worked the winter in Spokane then when Summer came marked a map with a route to every National Park and National Monument in Utah, Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona and towed out TT to every one plus into Mexico from Lukeville Arizona to the sea of Cortez.

Oh well enough reminiscing, now I have a 2015 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel with every idiot proof gadget imaginable, I have every tow accessory money can buy, my travel trailer has sat TV with the Dish everything package. But after reading this thread I.m afraid the 1500 is delicate and it will break if I use it LOL.

VernDiesel · Mar 19, 2018

If you look closely in reviewing the long long trailer you can see the small extra set of wheels at the hitch that help support the tongue weight. These were used to some success back in the day prior to WDH etc.

Rader, I shared my examples for the benefit of towing newbs to know their axle loading for more stability and braking instead of other bad advice they often get on forums. So when Mason asked about adding a wdh for his 8,000 pound camper and you replied with "there is no good reason to waste money adding" (a wdh) I had to correct this because it was not sound advice and counter to what I am trying to help people understand for themselves for the safety of their families instead of relying on often dubious advice from others.

Now I get you are not a newb and have experience and must have common sense and all or you might no longer be with us. So one I wasn't attacking or disrespecting you personally and two its never too late to add to your experience and learn something more than what you already know. Also no one suggested you could not handle or tow your loads safely even without your wdh even at 80 mph as you say as; the message wasn't about you. If after reading this thread what you got out of it was that you are afraid to tow with a 1500 as its too delicate to tow with well no one suggested that. Read it again I guess. Again no one was attacking you or making fun of you. I myself own an ED and tow lots and to its legal limits. In fact its how I learned to help the newbs.

My message is towing stability is a certainty when setting up your load via scale results to be within speces. No need for the newb to guess or take general internet advice. The point to you was that just because a person is not noticing sway doesn't mean their is no value in a WDH. I stand behind that as would many and reputable professionals from the field including the engineers at Equalizer the hitch you own and company you linked. On the brakes. If after hitching a persons truck has dramatically less than his unloaded steer weight his truck will take a greater distance to stop. This can be easily and concretely avoidable with adjustments to WD at the scales. None of this involves paranoia or a nervous breakdown. Both of these things can be easily proven with the same load before and after and a quick test tow that involves a fast and close pass by a semi and measured brake tests. Best wishes and happy safe towing to you.

GsRAM · Mar 19, 2018

VernDiesel said:
If you look closely in reviewing the long long trailer you can see the small extra set of wheels at the hitch that help support the tongue weight. These were used to some success back in the day prior to WDH etc.

Rader, I shared my examples for the benefit of towing newbs to know their axle loading for more stability and braking instead of other bad advice they often get on forums. So when Mason asked about adding a wdh for his 8,000 pound camper and you replied with "there is no good reason to waste money adding" (a wdh) I had to correct this because it was not sound advice and counter to what I am trying to help people understand for themselves for the safety of their families instead of relying on often dubious advice from others.

Now I get you are not a newb and have experience and must have common sense and all or you might no longer be with us. So one I wasn't attacking or disrespecting you personally and two its never too late to add to your experience and learn something more than what you already know. Also no one suggested you could not handle or tow your loads safely even without your wdh even at 80 mph as you say as; the message wasn't about you. If after reading this thread what you got out of it was that you are afraid to tow with a 1500 as its too delicate to tow with well no one suggested that. Read it again I guess. Again no one was attacking you or making fun of you. I myself own an ED and tow lots and to its legal limits. In fact its how I learned to help the newbs.

My message is towing stability is a certainty when setting up your load via scale results to be within speces. No need for the newb to guess or take general internet advice. The point to you was that just because a person is not noticing sway doesn't mean their is no value in a WDH. I stand behind that as would many and reputable professionals from the field including the engineers at Equalizer the hitch you own and company you linked. On the brakes. If after hitching a persons truck has dramatically less than his unloaded steer weight his truck will take a greater distance to stop. This can be easily and concretely avoidable with adjustments to WD at the scales. None of this involves paranoia or a nervous breakdown. Both of these things can be easily proven with the same load before and after and a quick test tow that involves and fast and close pass by a semi and measured brake tests. Best wishes and happy safe towing to you.

Well said Vern.

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