Cummins Killer Bolt.

truck2569 · Apr 2, 2024

I have a question to some of the service techs that are on here. I have a 2013 Ram 3500 and was just reading about the Killer Bolt on a Cummins motor. Is that with the 5.9 or the 6.7 and how easy is it to fix before it breaks and ruins my motor to start out with.. And where would I even find the bolt to start out with. And any helpful hints would be greatly appreciated. This is the first time I ever heard about it.

nlambert182 · Apr 3, 2024

Do you mean killer dowel pin? If so, thats the 5.9 and not the 6.7.

If you mean the grid heater bolt on the 6.7, you can't just remove it. You have to delete the grid heater. That requires removing the intake horn, the EGR valve, the MAP sensor, the fuel line going to the CP3 pump, and all 6 injector fuel lines, the banjo bolt coming from the fuel filter, etc... it's about a 4-5 hr job.

The grid heater bolt isn't that common of a thing to fail. If you're concerned with it, find the wires going to the grid heater and on occasion do the wiggle test. If it's loose then time to do a delete. If it's not I wouldn't worry about it.

Gr8bawana · Apr 3, 2024

truck2569 said:
I have a question to some of the service techs that are on here. I have a 2013 Ram 3500 and was just reading about the Killer Bolt on a Cummins motor. Is that with the 5.9 or the 6.7 and how easy is it to fix before it breaks and ruins my motor to start out with.. And where would I even find the bolt to start out with. And any helpful hints would be greatly appreciated. This is the first time I ever heard about it.

You don't even know what they're talking about but you NEED to fix it.

BossHogg · Apr 4, 2024

truck2569 said:
I have a question to some of the service techs that are on here. I have a 2013 Ram 3500 and was just reading about the Killer Bolt on a Cummins motor. Is that with the 5.9 or the 6.7 and how easy is it to fix before it breaks and ruins my motor to start out with.. And where would I even find the bolt to start out with. And any helpful hints would be greatly appreciated. This is the first time I ever heard about it.

Good question. The "killer" bolt gets a lot more credit than what it is due but if it happens it is a big cost item.

Here is a YT video explaining the grid heater bolt issue and how to do a quick test to see if you are in danger.

Cummins Grid Heater Killer Bolt Issue - Amps & Voltage on engine start

On rare occasions, the Cummins Grid Heater fails and drops metal into the intake manifold causing a catastrophic engine failure. This video explains the is...

www.youtube.com

HEMIMANN · Apr 4, 2024

Yeah, Gale Banks makes hay with this to hawk his monster Ram Air Intake. A good product no doubt, yet what is the probability of this failure? Does anyone have any data?

Much like Hemi cam failures, companies jealously hide that failure rate so owners are stuck relying on Forum Owner Groups attempting to assess the likelihood of the failure. Hemi has been around long enough, in high enough sales volumes, to have at least some limited data on failure rates via a dealership technician. For Hemi, the risk is mitigated with lubrication strategies - with the grid heater bolt, there's nothing you can do but wiggle check it occasionally.

Both failure types are catastrophic, loss-of-use failures, so should be taken seriously.

nlambert182 · Apr 4, 2024

The heater bolt is even less common than hemi tick. For a recall to occur a manufacturer has to see failures vs sales at a certain percent. I believe at one point I read something that said CA required 4% or 25 failures before a recall is warranted. If that holds true you can double or triple that number for other states. Typically a manufacturer does it before they're directed to.

I've read of 5-6 instances of this happening online. Cummins hit the 3M engines sold mark back in 2019. If the 6.7 is 1M of those, They would need over 40k failures to spark a recall by CA standards. It's just not prevalent. Regardless, it IS something to watch for because there's always that one time.

To be honest, you'll likely have a better chance of getting scammed by Gale Banks than the bolt falling out.

BossHogg · Apr 5, 2024

HEMIMANN said:
what is the probability of this failure? Does anyone have any data?

I've wondered that myself. Does RAM's powertrain warranty cover the repair? Even if it does and the failure occurs within the warranty period, RAM doesn't share warranty repair data. I don't think anyone knows.

I've been "jiggling" my grid heater connection and so far, it remains secure.

Choupique · Apr 5, 2024

I've never heard of one failing inside of warranty. Since it's an internal engine part I don't see how it wouldn't be covered.

Keep in mind, that same grid heater design is used on every 6.7 out there with a heater. Ram trucks, garbage trucks, school busses, standby generators, the list goes on and on. It's cummins' most prevalent engine. I believe the same design is also used on the ISL9 and 4.5 as well.

Give the cable the wiggle test whenever you have the hood up. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

oledirteh · Apr 5, 2024

if i think about it this afternoon, ill post the pic of what mine looked like at 88000 miles.

Yes, it happens, yes, its bad. how often it happens no clue.

When i deleted mine it took a few hours. like said above you do have to remove 5 of the lines. the rear line is next to impossible to reach and you can slide the plate out without having to remove the last line but just have to be careful putting it back in without damaging the gasket. also when taking out the lines you have to make sure you dont spin the line inserts in the head.

I did replace it all with banks and honestly cant tell you if there's a power increase or not. with how these trucks are and the management it has its all going to the way side.

i would love to see what yours looks like being a older model.

upside is after i pulled it apart, the amount of restriction that was there was wild. having removed it all does make me feel better about it all.

Scottly · Apr 5, 2024

Gr8bawana said:
You don't even know what they're talking about but you NEED to fix it.

Sounds like a perfect sales opportunity for Banks....

nlambert182 · Apr 5, 2024

oledirteh said:
if i think about it this afternoon, ill post the pic of what mine looked like at 88000 miles.

Yes, it happens, yes, its bad. how often it happens no clue.

When i deleted mine it took a few hours. like said above you do have to remove 5 of the lines. the rear line is next to impossible to reach and you can slide the plate out without having to remove the last line but just have to be careful putting it back in without damaging the gasket. also when taking out the lines you have to make sure you dont spin the line inserts in the head.

I did replace it all with banks and honestly cant tell you if there's a power increase or not. with how these trucks are and the management it has its all going to the way side.

i would love to see what yours looks like being a older model.

upside is after i pulled it apart, the amount of restriction that was there was wild. having removed it all does make me feel better about it all.

Did you also delete your truck at the same time? Seems like that's really the only way it's going to provide any sort of power increase.

I'd imagine the fuel tables would adjust to accommodate any increase in airflow and minimize any effects from removing the heater. Possibly more noticeable if the computer is tuned and the restrictive exhaust is deleted.

I'm sure most of our heaters are gunked with soot because of the EGR.

Wbjrace · Apr 8, 2024

Choupique said:
I've never heard of one failing inside of warranty. Since it's an internal engine part I don't see how it wouldn't be covered.

Keep in mind, that same grid heater design is used on every 6.7 out there with a heater. Ram trucks, garbage trucks, school busses, standby generators, the list goes on and on. It's cummins' most prevalent engine. I believe the same design is also used on the ISL9 and 4.5 as well.

Give the cable the wiggle test whenever you have the hood up. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

I have had the Banks system put on my 2018 Cummins. My mechanic said that the grid heater is a Chrysler part and not a Cummins. The replacement Chryser part is $1000 and the Banks is $1000. The Banks does not have the problem bolt and it has an air heater. I had this done as my Warranty had run out at + 50000 miles. It if fails the cost for repairs is going to be high. I am just surprised the Dodge (Ram) has not mentioned this potential failure at all.

gnyland · Apr 8, 2024

Wbjrace said:
I have had the Banks system put on my 2018 Cummins. My mechanic said that the grid heater is a Chrysler part and not a Cummins. The replacement Chryser part is $1000 and the Banks is $1000. The Banks does not have the problem bolt and it has an air heater. I had this done as my Warranty had run out at + 50000 miles. It if fails the cost for repairs is going to be high. I am just surprised the Dodge (Ram) has not mentioned this potential failure at all.

Hey there, What Ram model you got and what's your TC brand and model?

nlambert182 · Apr 8, 2024

Wbjrace said:
I have had the Banks system put on my 2018 Cummins. My mechanic said that the grid heater is a Chrysler part and not a Cummins. The replacement Chryser part is $1000 and the Banks is $1000. The Banks does not have the problem bolt and it has an air heater. I had this done as my Warranty had run out at + 50000 miles. It if fails the cost for repairs is going to be high. I am just surprised the Dodge (Ram) has not mentioned this potential failure at all.

Cummins makes the grid heater, not Chrysler. Your mechanic is wrong. Cummins provides the entire engine drop in ready. Sorry that the Banks scare tactic worked on you, but hey at least you're not one of the 1 in 30k people.

It's because it's not a common enough issue to warrant a mention. If they were going to mention something with a 1 in 30k chance of failure every manufacturer would have a list a mile long.

Cummins did, however, issue a recall for the grid heater relay on newer models because it did warrant a repair.

06 Dodge · Apr 8, 2024

How about if your worried about the bolt why not save your self $1000 and just unhook the grid heater from the power supply at the battery?

nlambert182 · Apr 9, 2024

You can do that, but if you use remote start you'll get a CEL. If you immediately start it some say no CEL will occur because the computer isn't waiting for the grid heater to tell it that it's ready. Remote start is going to wait so many seconds for the trigger from the grid heater and if it doesn't see it, you'll get the light.

I've seen that you can tune it out if necessary though.

tgrfan2 · Apr 9, 2024

I have never thought of myself as unlucky, but now I don't know. I fixed the KDP on my 98 12V before any trouble as PM. My 2011 Durango ate the cam at about 90K. My 2018 3500 check engine light came on at 8800 miles. The dealer really didn't want to talk about it but they replaced the grid heater.
I had a 2004 1500 that I sold at 140K that never had lifter problems. I have a 2008 Aspen with 294K on it that other than the normal water pump, alternator, and starter has had no other engine problems.
I am not sure of the odds involved but I would think my experience with late model Hemis and CTDs indicates these problems are not "rare".
I don't want to hijack this thread, but now my 2018 3500 has the ABS/TC problem with no part and no recall in sight. I am considering the fix on You Tube until Ram fixes the motor. How hard can it be to fix sticking brushes on an electric motor?
Engineering or quality control?

Choupique · Apr 9, 2024

tgrfan2 said:
2018 3500 has the ABS/TC problem with no part and no recall in sight.

Now this is something that certainly warrants discussion.

Marshall · Apr 9, 2024

I have heard of someone that has this problem and months of waiting.
have no history with these, but if it's brushes in a motor , should be easy fix,
I suppose getting it apart will be the problem. Old days changing brushes was standard service.
Some of my cheap Chinese tools came with spare brushes . Funny thing ,no US made tools ever came with spare parts.

chaosh1 · Apr 9, 2024

This bolt killed my neighbors truck same year, nearly the same miles. I swapped mine out for the Banks unit. $1k is cheap insurance as he got hit with $23k bill for engine replacement.

Noticed cooler EGT's when towing, Turbo seems to spool faster, Engine brake seems to operate at even lower RPM's.

In my opinion it was completely worth it.

Cummins Killer Bolt.

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