5.7 engine timing correct ?

[Propanedr]

Good morning and thank you for your input in advance.

Here is my question. Is it possible to have the engine timing off 180 deg ? how can i verify that i have TDC ?

This is what i have done:

brought #1 cyl to the top. (Driver side closest to radiator)
the #6 cylinder is at the top also.
set cam to 12:00 position via locating pin.
Set crank shaft to 6 o'clock via dot on lower gear.
Verified that crank shaft notch is close to the 2 o'clock position on oil pump.
Installed timing gear with phasher and lower gear at the same time.
Note: cam phaser has a limiter installed.
Installed new lifters which i soaked overnight in oil.

Next i installed the edelbrock heads.
installed rocker arms, made sure the long push rods were on the exhaust side.

installed timing cover.
installed ATI Harmonic balancer.

Hooked up ARH long tube headers.

next was the intake and valve covers.
plugged the coils in.

flashed the computer with Hemeifever tune.
Tried to start the truck:
after a few seconds the oil pressure came up to 45 ish lbs
truck never started. I heard a pop or two but thats it.
pulled a plug and hooked up a compression tester and found zero pressure.

Note: I did install the timing incorrectly prior to this and cost me 10 bent valves and new head bolts, head gaskets, etc....
I failed to torque down the cam bolt and sheared the locating pin when trying to start the engine.
I replaced the pin. This was fun, while the cam was still in the block.
The way i understand it, correct me if im wrong. The locating pin is just to align the cam with the phaser. The two parts are actually held together when the cam bolt is properly torqued down.


My fear is that ive got the timing incorrect again.

Thank you

 

[jvbuttex]

Typically the dots kn the crank and cam should touch. As in cam 6 O'clock and crank 12 O'clock. Double check in a manual. This would cause 180' out.

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[Propanedr]

Thanks that would make sense. Both times ive set the timing with the cam at 12 and crank at six. ill check . Thank you

 

[Propanedr]

ok so i just checked the ALLDATA website and it says cam at 12 and crank at 6 with the two dark marks on the timing chain centered on the cam phaser. the single mark on the crank gear above the little dot.

does it make a difference if the timing chain marks are backwards ? Like the two marks on the crank gear and the single mark on the cam gear ?

 

[James OBrien]

I went through this also when I did my cam/lifters/springs/rods, and even though I matched everything up, I found that I couldn't turn the crankshaft fully and was getting interference, and my valve-train barely moved. I took everything apart, re-aligned all of the pieces and parts and tried again, and that time I finally got things working correctly, verified by turning the crank over about 20-30 times and watching the valve train. That's what I'd recommend you do. I would NOT run the truck with those marks out of sync, I think you'll find your timing off like 1/2 a chain or something.

Oh, and I am a fellow camshaft pin shearer-offer... Did the same thing with my new cam when testing because I hadn't torqued down the camshaft bolt. Was able to extract the pin out of my stock cam and with a patient hour on a drill press got the old one drilled out.

 

[Propanedr]

thank you. i don't feel so alone. its been driving me nuts. I've had the heads off so many times. once because i had one head gasket upside down. I'm learning all the wrong things to do. ill check my timing marks again. probably off a link like you said.

Thank you.

 

[crackerjack1957]

 

[gbark80]

I would say looking at your pics, your crank mark is off 1/2 a link. Tour crank mark should be right about where that bbn oil drip is.

 

[crackerjack1957]

Rotation at top off about the same.......just put up photos for the marking reference on sprockets/gears.
Engine runs fine!

 

[Propanedr]

thanks. im going to tear the motor down again. Ill look and see where i went wrong again.

 

[jws123]

I would say looking at your pics, your crank mark is off 1/2 a link. Tour crank mark should be right about where that bbn oil drip is.

Looks good to me when i did mine thats as close as i was able to get it would never go to 6 o clock fully.

 

[James OBrien]

My only other advice/suggestion is really check the pushrods as you're torquing down the rocker arms, it's a fun little dance making sure all the pushrods stay in their 'cups' on the rockers while you tighten down. I've put a little dab of assembly lube on the tip of mine before to make sure they stick a bit and it helps.

 

[Ballistic308]

When you brought the #1 cylinder to the top was it on the compression stroke?

 

[Propanedr]

I cant say 100%. In my mind I thought so but obviously I've made a mistake twice or is that three now.

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[jws123]

I cant say 100%. In my mind I thought so but obviously I've made a mistake twice or is that three now.

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It is really easy to set the timing on these oil pump must be out of the way tho or ul have a hell of a time. Just take your time dont rush and make sure you turn it over by hand a few times first.

 

[jvbuttex]

When you brought the #1 cylinder to the top was it on the compression stroke?

yes remember its a 4 stroke, 1 intake fuel, 1 compression, 1 fire, 1 exhaust... you can flip flop the ignition between the exhaust and fuel and you get the popping back in the carb.... Oh wait, I dated my self... popping back in the intake. I have seen some nice carb fires because of 180 timing... can be exciting... LOL

 

[Propanedr]

Finally got the cover off. Here is my setup. Using a welding rod I turned the motor over so the #1 piston reached the top and then started to come down just a tiny bit. So would you suggest turning it over several more times till the chain Mark's line up or just pull the chain and reset the timing again. I'm quite sure I have a bent valve or ten like last time. So the heads are coming off again. I just wanted to see where i went wrong before taking the heads off.

Thanks


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[Propanedr]

so i did one crank revolutions. Piston down then back up again. My cam mark was at 6 o'clock, my crank dot was at 5:30 to 6:00 . i did one more revolution #1 piston down, then back up again. cam gear is now at 12:00 and crank dot is at the 5:30 6:00 position.

How can i be sure that im on the compression stroke when i set the timing ? are there any other reference marks or indicators i should be looking for ?

 

[Ballistic308]

While turning the crank put your finger over the spark plug hole and feel for escaping air. When the piston is at the top of its stroke that is top dead center on the compression stroke. If you can’t get your finger over the hole get a compression test kit and use only the tube.

Everything is determined from #1 TDC.

 

[Fast69Mopar]

These motors really are very simple to set the timing. I don't recommend rotating the engine over if you have any doubts about the cam/crank timing. Pull the rockers and the chain and reset it.

When you are setting the timing with the rockers off of the cylinder heads you don't have to worry about whether it's on the compression stroke or not. With the rockers off just make sure you are at Top Dead Center on the #1 cylinder.

Make sure that you use the double marks on the chain for the camshaft gear alignment and the single mark for the crank gear alignment. Once you have the chain installed and have the cam bolt semi-snug, pull the pin on the tensioner and then torque the cam bolt.