Prideless
Junior Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Posts
- 28
- Reaction score
- 19
- Location
- NC
- Ram Year
- 1997
- Engine
- 5.9L-360 Narutally Aspirated
With the understanding this truck could be taken to a dealer and "possibly" get resolved, I am on this site precisely to avoid just that, so please do not suggest it yet again. This has been a nightmare for more than a year. I will pay $50 CASH to the first person that comes up with THE correct solution to my issue, except anyone that suggests taking it to a dealer. Being a poor veteran, disabled, on a fixed income, though I have now paid enough for parts to have taken it to a dealer, I still cannot now afford to do that.
FYI - I was a Jet Engine Mechanic in the USAF, and I once worked as a mechanic in a Buick-Pontiac-GMC-Jeep dealership, but this has me stumped.
This is detailed and extensive, so thank you up front for your patience in even reading all this information. An extraordinary number of issues were found, but the ORIGINAL culprit has eluded all the troubleshooting. I am using an INNOVA 3040c scanner.
Initial problem - After driving about 13 miles, engine would cut off while coasting to a stop. Would not restart from 5 to 10 minutes. Would cut off a number of times, having to wait each time, until I got it back home. THREW NO CODES whatsoever. This happened on over a dozen trips.
Other than the precise issues discussed below, this engine runs perfectly smooth, accelerates smooth, and runs great. Many of the times it has cut off occurs very shortly after letting off the gas pedal. Can a throttle position sensor cause this crap?
4/28/20 - 169900 miles - REPLACED IGNITION COIL - no help, REPLACED GAS CAP - no help
5/2/20 - 169979 - REPLACED IGNITION SWITCH - no help
5/7/20 - 169985 - REPLACED CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR - no help
6/15/20 - 170031 - REPLACED IDLE AIR CONTROL SOLENOID - no help
7/6/20 - 170087 - Found connector lock on fuel pump missing, connector loose, corrected - no help
8/20/20 - 170201 - REPLACED FUEL PUMP AND FILTER - filter was clogged and a port cap was dry rotted so bad the top was gone such that it was venting fuel into my driveway - no help
8/25/20 - 170211 - REPLACED PICK-UP COIL - seemingly fixed, but noooooooo
4/21/21 - 170405 - REPLACED PCM - no help
4/23/21 - 170405 - REPLACED DISTRIBUTOR CAP, ROTOR, IGNITION WIRES, SPARK PLUGS - ran 4 minutes before cutting off - NO CODES
4/25/21 - 170405 - REPLACED BATTERY - Ran for 40 minutes, then drove 6 miles with no issues except a momentary "buck" a couple of times (as if the ignition switch had been turned off and immediately back on again while driving), but never cut off completely.
6/2/21 - 170444 - Today it threw 2 codes - P0351 and P0441 - Cleared codes - CHECKED ALL ENGINE BAY GROUNDS. Drove 25 minutes with no issues. Finally something to work with, but what could possibly be wrong with a completely replaced ignition system? Yes everything has been quadruple checked.
6/16/21 - 170811 - Drove over 300 miles today. Most in years. At about mile 200 it backfired on interstate while going 75mph and left a black ball of smoke behind it. It cut off. I thought it threw a rod. Pulled off road, thoroughly inspected, not a drop of oil anywhere. Surprisingly started right up and finished trip, but it acted like the switch had been turned off and on numerous times, backfiring each time. Now I am suspecting the cat. - NO CODES!!! REPLACED CATALYTIC CONVERTER, MUFFLER, BOTH OXYGEN SENSORS, AND ALL RELAYS IN THE UNDER HOOD POWER CENTER. Ran for about one minute before it cut off.
6/21/21 - 170811 - REPLACED PICK-UP COIL YET AGAIN. Found P0441 problem. Vapor canister barrier disolved and filled all evap lines with charcoal all the way up to the purge valve. REPLACED VAPOR CANISTER AND PURGE VALVE, CLEARED LINES. Still won't run for even a minute.
6/25/21 - 170811 - REPLACED PCM YET AGAIN. Ran 8 minutes and cut off. Now it throws oxy sensor codes. P0132 and P0138
7/1/21 - 170818 - REPLACED OXYGEN SENSORS AGAIN! - Cuts off after 21 minutes. Restarts immediately, but cuts off again after 7-1/2 minutes. Throws P0351 again, and P0132, P0135, P0138, and P0141. Interesting note: The original upstream sensor had two broken wires on it but never threw any codes, OMG!
REPLACED IDLE AIR CONTROL SOLENOID yet again. After running only 7 minutes throws P0135 and P0141. After 14-1/2 minutes throws P0132 and P0138, then cuts off. ***? My understanding is that none of these codes should set until after at least 20 minutes of fault. What the hell is going on here? Restarts immediately but only runs for less than a minute.
7/5/21 - 170818 - REPLACED MAP SENSOR - Ran for over an hour with multiple cutoffs, but never failed to restart. Took extensive notes as follows: All times are elapsed times from the initial start.
Cuts off after one minute, immediately restarted. After another minute threw code P0135 but didn't set the check engine light (CEL). After 4 minutes it set the CEL. At 5 minutes P0132, P0135, and P0138 are all set, but P0141 never sets again.
Cuts off after 9 minutes, but restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 20 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 29-1/2 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 33 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 36 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 52 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately. Wow, it ran for 16 minutes.
Cuts off after 53 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 66 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
At least is doesn't fail to restart now, for whatever good that does. This is where I have left it.
I have driven a grand total of 918 miles in the last 15 months and am scared to ever take it out again. I had to pay for a tow on one of the breakdowns.
The oxy sensors shouldn't shut off the engine and I am stumped there. Obviously I will have to take a close look at all that wiring, but it is all above the transmission and nearly impossible to even see, much less get to.
The P0351 code, though it rarely pops up, seems to indicate my coil is intermittently getting grounded, but for the life of me I don't know how. At one point it had also thrown a misfire code on Cyl 8, but that was after the ignition system was completely replaced, and it never threw that code again. The coil and plug wires are routed good with additional spiral insulation covers on all of them, yet the symptoms act just like an intermittent grounded coil wire.
THAT'S THE ENTIRE GREMLIN INFESTED STORY. I promise, given the proper info, I will send the first person that points to the correct solution $50 cash, and owe you a deep debt of gratitude. Thank you for your valued time.
FYI - I was a Jet Engine Mechanic in the USAF, and I once worked as a mechanic in a Buick-Pontiac-GMC-Jeep dealership, but this has me stumped.
This is detailed and extensive, so thank you up front for your patience in even reading all this information. An extraordinary number of issues were found, but the ORIGINAL culprit has eluded all the troubleshooting. I am using an INNOVA 3040c scanner.
Initial problem - After driving about 13 miles, engine would cut off while coasting to a stop. Would not restart from 5 to 10 minutes. Would cut off a number of times, having to wait each time, until I got it back home. THREW NO CODES whatsoever. This happened on over a dozen trips.
Other than the precise issues discussed below, this engine runs perfectly smooth, accelerates smooth, and runs great. Many of the times it has cut off occurs very shortly after letting off the gas pedal. Can a throttle position sensor cause this crap?
4/28/20 - 169900 miles - REPLACED IGNITION COIL - no help, REPLACED GAS CAP - no help
5/2/20 - 169979 - REPLACED IGNITION SWITCH - no help
5/7/20 - 169985 - REPLACED CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR - no help
6/15/20 - 170031 - REPLACED IDLE AIR CONTROL SOLENOID - no help
7/6/20 - 170087 - Found connector lock on fuel pump missing, connector loose, corrected - no help
8/20/20 - 170201 - REPLACED FUEL PUMP AND FILTER - filter was clogged and a port cap was dry rotted so bad the top was gone such that it was venting fuel into my driveway - no help
8/25/20 - 170211 - REPLACED PICK-UP COIL - seemingly fixed, but noooooooo
4/21/21 - 170405 - REPLACED PCM - no help
4/23/21 - 170405 - REPLACED DISTRIBUTOR CAP, ROTOR, IGNITION WIRES, SPARK PLUGS - ran 4 minutes before cutting off - NO CODES
4/25/21 - 170405 - REPLACED BATTERY - Ran for 40 minutes, then drove 6 miles with no issues except a momentary "buck" a couple of times (as if the ignition switch had been turned off and immediately back on again while driving), but never cut off completely.
6/2/21 - 170444 - Today it threw 2 codes - P0351 and P0441 - Cleared codes - CHECKED ALL ENGINE BAY GROUNDS. Drove 25 minutes with no issues. Finally something to work with, but what could possibly be wrong with a completely replaced ignition system? Yes everything has been quadruple checked.
6/16/21 - 170811 - Drove over 300 miles today. Most in years. At about mile 200 it backfired on interstate while going 75mph and left a black ball of smoke behind it. It cut off. I thought it threw a rod. Pulled off road, thoroughly inspected, not a drop of oil anywhere. Surprisingly started right up and finished trip, but it acted like the switch had been turned off and on numerous times, backfiring each time. Now I am suspecting the cat. - NO CODES!!! REPLACED CATALYTIC CONVERTER, MUFFLER, BOTH OXYGEN SENSORS, AND ALL RELAYS IN THE UNDER HOOD POWER CENTER. Ran for about one minute before it cut off.
6/21/21 - 170811 - REPLACED PICK-UP COIL YET AGAIN. Found P0441 problem. Vapor canister barrier disolved and filled all evap lines with charcoal all the way up to the purge valve. REPLACED VAPOR CANISTER AND PURGE VALVE, CLEARED LINES. Still won't run for even a minute.
6/25/21 - 170811 - REPLACED PCM YET AGAIN. Ran 8 minutes and cut off. Now it throws oxy sensor codes. P0132 and P0138
7/1/21 - 170818 - REPLACED OXYGEN SENSORS AGAIN! - Cuts off after 21 minutes. Restarts immediately, but cuts off again after 7-1/2 minutes. Throws P0351 again, and P0132, P0135, P0138, and P0141. Interesting note: The original upstream sensor had two broken wires on it but never threw any codes, OMG!
REPLACED IDLE AIR CONTROL SOLENOID yet again. After running only 7 minutes throws P0135 and P0141. After 14-1/2 minutes throws P0132 and P0138, then cuts off. ***? My understanding is that none of these codes should set until after at least 20 minutes of fault. What the hell is going on here? Restarts immediately but only runs for less than a minute.
7/5/21 - 170818 - REPLACED MAP SENSOR - Ran for over an hour with multiple cutoffs, but never failed to restart. Took extensive notes as follows: All times are elapsed times from the initial start.
Cuts off after one minute, immediately restarted. After another minute threw code P0135 but didn't set the check engine light (CEL). After 4 minutes it set the CEL. At 5 minutes P0132, P0135, and P0138 are all set, but P0141 never sets again.
Cuts off after 9 minutes, but restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 20 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 29-1/2 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 33 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 36 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 52 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately. Wow, it ran for 16 minutes.
Cuts off after 53 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
Cuts off after 66 minutes, with same 3 DTCs, restarts immediately.
At least is doesn't fail to restart now, for whatever good that does. This is where I have left it.
I have driven a grand total of 918 miles in the last 15 months and am scared to ever take it out again. I had to pay for a tow on one of the breakdowns.
The oxy sensors shouldn't shut off the engine and I am stumped there. Obviously I will have to take a close look at all that wiring, but it is all above the transmission and nearly impossible to even see, much less get to.
The P0351 code, though it rarely pops up, seems to indicate my coil is intermittently getting grounded, but for the life of me I don't know how. At one point it had also thrown a misfire code on Cyl 8, but that was after the ignition system was completely replaced, and it never threw that code again. The coil and plug wires are routed good with additional spiral insulation covers on all of them, yet the symptoms act just like an intermittent grounded coil wire.
THAT'S THE ENTIRE GREMLIN INFESTED STORY. I promise, given the proper info, I will send the first person that points to the correct solution $50 cash, and owe you a deep debt of gratitude. Thank you for your valued time.