And the Disappointment in the dealership begins

[Tach_tech]

Why would you be disappointed in the dealership? Are they not fixing the manifold and valve cover gasket for free? And I have another vote against the e3. Hopefully they work for you, but I have fixed a few rough running hemi by throwing them in the trash and installing factory plugs. A leaking spark plug tube seal will cause a misfire. But it is for sure not because the oil is getting on the electrode.


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I'll second that. Ive as well ran into a few hemis with misfire issues caused by e3 plugs. Put in factory plugs and leave it at that. Any gain if any you get from a fancy e3 plug is going to be small enough that you won't notice anything.

 

[JasonK94Z]

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqpower.asp?mode=nml

 

[audio1der]

Another vote for plain old copper plugs. Do some reading, sell the E3's off and save yourself the time it takes to change all the ****** plugs.

 

[ohengineering]

...OK, please explain how the oil leaks past the spark plug sealing ring and gets the plug wet...while the engine is running....just think about it...on the compression stroke, it can hit up to 200 psi....don't you think it would also blow the oil out the spark plug tube, past the coil, and all over the valve cover???

When I was in still in school, some of our simulations (N/A, 12.1:1 CR, 32° spark angle) showed in-cylinder pressures of up to 4.5 MPa (650 psi) at ~20° ATDC. Varied from calculation ±5%. Actual in-cylinder measurement is not very reliable, nor accurate, due to the slow reaction of integrated pressure sensors. Much more than 200 psi -- so you would think that would help your point.

However, where you see the oil seep is not during engine running, but immediately after the engine is shut off and when the engine is cooling. The thermal expansion differences, plug threads vs cylinder head, allow this to occur. Anti-seize (which should go on plug threads anyway) will help to prevent this on cars where it is common (Toyota and Mitsu especially).

 

[R/T_Fire]

Why would you be disappointed in the dealership? Are they not fixing the manifold and valve cover gasket for free? And I have another vote against the e3. Hopefully they work for you, but I have fixed a few rough running hemi by throwing them in the trash and installing factory plugs. A leaking spark plug tube seal will cause a misfire. But it is for sure not because the oil is getting on the electrode.


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Yes, I'm happy they did the warranty work, but I already expect that from a dealership. I'm a hard but easy customer to keep and make happy, If Im being told a story that I know it isn't true, not saying its not possible to get oil like that, Ive seen it on hondas but in my case there was no oil present in any spark plug tubs, that is what disappoints me. this is usually why I investigate the issue first then take it to the dealer for warranty work.
This is issue two with this dealer, the first wasn't really a big big deal but when my rear diff blew, sending gear oil all over the underside and rear bumper and tailgate they made no attempt to clean it off. kinda bothered me, but not a big deal.

Its the simple small things for me that keep me doing business, this wont sway me yet from going elsewhere especially if what they did fixes the issue but too many little annoyances will send me looking for another service shop while under warranty. once that is done I will do my own repairs

 

[R/T_Fire]

As for the E3 debate... I will learn for myself on these if the suck I'll take them out and run something else, but from my experience and seeing certain race teams run them and knowing how those specific teams run their program I'll give them a go.

 

[john55]

However, where you see the oil seep is not during engine running, but immediately after the engine is shut off and when the engine is cooling. The thermal expansion differences, plug threads vs cylinder head, allow this to occur. Anti-seize (which should go on plug threads anyway) will help to prevent this on cars where it is common (Toyota and Mitsu especially).[/QUOTE]


Thanks for your insight, but, I'm still not buying it...

Down the valve guides...maybe...

 

[sbarron]

Thanks for your insight, but, I'm still not buying it...

Down the valve guides...maybe...

Yeah, valve guides yes, spark plug threads, no. I'm not a metallurgist, but I think if it were hot enough for thermal expansion to be an issue, 1) it would vaporize the oil, and 2) you would also have exhaust being blown back the other direction.

Nope.

 

[ohengineering]

Yeah, valve guides yes, spark plug threads, no. I'm not a metallurgist, but I think if it were hot enough for thermal expansion to be an issue, 1) it would vaporize the oil, and 2) you would also have exhaust being blown back the other direction.

Nope.

Go in to the field, you'll see it.

 

[SlowRoller]

2) you would also have exhaust being blown back the other direction.

Nope.

Sooo, how would exhaust be 'blowing back' when the engine is off?

(Re-read his post)

 

[ohengineering]

Yeah, valve guides yes, spark plug threads, no. I'm not a metallurgist, but I think if it were hot enough for thermal expansion to be an issue, 1) it would vaporize the oil, and 2) you would also have exhaust being blown back the other direction.

Nope.

Thermal expansion is just the name for the rate at which a material expands or contracts according to a change in temperature -- it doesn't necessarily mean the temperatures are extreme. What it comes down to is that during engine cooling, the plugs cool and shrink at a different rate than the aluminum cylinder head. This allows the oil to seep down through the threads.

Thermal expansion is actually a very cool principle. Look up the Thermal Expansion Engine, really cool stuff.

 

[R/T_Fire]

Well update, picked up the supposed complete finished and fixed truck...
Battery is dead they claim and want me to bring another... funny I dropped it off fine no problems. so whatever, I happen to have a battery at home out of my boat, its a newer batt so I grab it and put it in...
nope no go. Optima batt has opposite legs and the wires arent long enough. whatever they jump it and I'm n my way.. Idles nice seems to run smooth, go to get on the freeway and nope... there is the noise and decreased power and funkly sounding exhaust. and code pops, truck runs like **** shutters hard (didn't do that before) so I say F' it and bring it home to deal with later...

1. I'm going to change the battery they let die and ruined, newer NAPA unit. and see if the dead batt was causing a power flux with the computer and may becausing loss of spark output.
2. going to change the plugs tomorrow and see if that fixes it..

Those are two very likely issues to cause the problem and I want to cross them off before I start ruffling feathers at the dealer. if those dont fix it then it goes back with me very pissed off

 

[SlowRoller]

Good grief!!! You musta been a very bad boy in a previous life!!!! =)

 

[R/T_Fire]

Good grief!!! You musta been a very bad boy in a previous life!!!! =)

You have no idea... and after yesterday its amazing I didn't go postal!!! definitely was a day that pushed my patience to the limit.

once I get the plugs in (I hope, they come today) I'll rule that out and take it back to them and raise holy hell...
I don't want anything in compensation or for free, I just want my truck fixed and not given a BS story. Figure that is not to much to ask for.

 

[pickupman66]

I took a set of e3 plugs out of my truck and am SOO glad I did. they turned to crap on me. The previous owner had put them in. I went with the platinum autolites and could not be happier.

Man up and replace the coil on that cylinder. you gotta remove it anyways to get to the plugs and its maybe $25 at Autozone.

 

[JasonK94Z]

A dead battery or a poor battery connection will do that. Change the battery first and see how it runs. Don't do the plugs at the same time or you'll be wondering which one really fixed your truck.

BTW - I understand your frustration. We had a grand caravan once that was always in for warranty work. I yelled at the service manager and said the next time I had to bring it in, I was going to drive thru their front glass and park it in the f*cking showroom. The other customers in line thought I was crazy lol.

 

[Etroze86]

I took a set of e3 plugs out of my truck and am SOO glad I did. they turned to crap on me. The previous owner had put them in. I went with the platinum autolites and could not be happier.

Man up and replace the coil on that cylinder. you gotta remove it anyways to get to the plugs and its maybe $25 at Autozone.

NGK coppers are really the only thing that should go in our trucks unless specified use platinum's. I would also steer clear of an ignition coil that is $25 as they are generally double to triple that everywhere else.

 

[R/T_Fire]

A dead battery or a poor battery connection will do that. Change the battery first and see how it runs. Don't do the plugs at the same time or you'll be wondering which one really fixed your truck.

BTW - I understand your frustration. We had a grand caravan once that was always in for warranty work. I yelled at the service manager and said the next time I had to bring it in, I was going to drive thru their front glass and park it in the f*cking showroom. The other customers in line thought I was crazy lol.

I said the same thing about driving it through the glass... just not to the service guy... I didn't yell at him just listened to the BS and judged.

I'll fix the things in order then test each prior to the next. then go from their.. I'm prop going to talk to another dealership lay it out there and flat out tell them not to ******** me and talk to a actual service guy if the problem isn't corrected by the very likely battery issue.

pickupman66, no need to man up and replace it. I already took it off and tested it for fault. all within spec and operating correctly... I'm not afraid to spend money on fixing it and doing it right the first time.. but if its not the problem I wont waste money on it.. I do plan on upgrading them but I want to find the problem first.. its my first priority before go fast past

 

[R/T_Fire]

And more BS, just took the battery to AutoZone that the dealer claimed to be flat dead and wouldn't take a charge magically after being there for 5 days... tests Good twice, and has proper voltage...

I will be contacting another dealer to be doing the work of finding out what the issue is and if its a warranty repair or not...

So let down. Why is it so hard to find people that do honest business these days

 

[Rzrman328]

And more BS, just took the battery to AutoZone that the dealer claimed to be flat dead and wouldn't take a charge magically after being there for 5 days... tests Good twice, and has proper voltage...

I will be contacting another dealer to be doing the work of finding out what the issue is and if its a warranty repair or not...

So let down. Why is it so hard to find people that do honest business these days

Ya I would definitely just go to another dealer. Also probably wise not to **** off the guys that will be working on your rig. They can make or break your day.