Cam specs,,, ol' hemi tick,,, MDS delete

[Paul lynch]

Hey folks.
Dodge owner again. Had a chevy and she almost folded up on me.
Hoping I'm in the right place to discuss my issues. I imagine there is a thread just for lifter failure.
I'll just go ahead and jump in to it.

I have a 2014 dodge ram crew cab sport w/5.7L. I have the ol' lifter failure/lifter tick and I'm about to replace the lifters and most likely the camshaft considering it's probably been chewed up. My dilemma is I would like to do this repair and at the same time delete MDS. I've read around and I do believe they make several types of cams and I'm not sure which one I would need due to the fact that I would need a cam w/o MDS but with VVT. Also, I believe I have SRV for the active intake and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the camshaft. So, basically is there a cam I can use w/o the MDS supporting lobs but supports VVT and will I need a tune with that cam? Or, is my choices comp cam or stock?
Also, I see some non MDS kits on ebay but wasn't sure how well they were or if their trying to sell the kit with the MDS supporting cam. I wouldn't put it past some of ebay sellers to sell the MDS cam with non MDS lifters.
I would look more into installing a comp cam if I had the funds. I'm looking to just get er' fixed I think. It's not totally ruled out though.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[GTyankee]

The 5.7L engine made for the 1500 series has VVT & MDS
The 5.7L engine made for the Heavy Duty Rams just have VVT

The blocks are the same & made in Mexico

I will just mention;
1) Does the Lifter tick noise, just happen for the first minute after a cold start ?

2) Does the Lifter Tick happen as you are driving to some destination ?

 

[Paul lynch]

The 5.7L engine made for the 1500 series has VVT & MDS
The 5.7L engine made for the Heavy Duty Rams just have VVT

The blocks are the same & made in Mexico

I will just mention;
1) Does the Lifter tick noise, just happen for the first minute after a cold start ?

2) Does the Lifter Tick happen as you are driving to some destination ?

So, would the 2500 rams camshaft work with the 1500s? If so, is there a part number i can use as a reference?
The tick is all the time. It even seems I hear more then one.

 

[GTyankee]

The constant ticking could very well be broken exhaust manifold bolts
The ones that break off are the 4 bolts that hold on the Heat Shields.
If the heat shields can be wiggled at all, replace all of the exhaust manifold bolts with a quality made set of Grade 8 Bolts

 

[RamRod37]

Just went through this on my truck cost wise if your like me and prefer to do it right so you do not have to go back into it for anything. I done cam, Lifters, had heads reworked new valve springs, new timing set and new VVT sprocket, new VVT valve, new water pump, New oil pump, new belt cost from rock auto just over 1,250 heads reworked 250.00 but mine is non MDS add 200 buck more for MDS lifters they are 392.00 a set and I used OEM mopar cam welling oil pump fel pro gasket set note VVT sprocket is 1 dollar higher cost than the rest of timing so total timing 130.00 oh unless your superman plan on 12 to 14 hrs to do it total I done mine in two tiers one weekend tore it down 6hrs and the next 7.5 hrs reinstalling

 

[Wild one]

So, would the 2500 rams camshaft work with the 1500s? If so, is there a part number i can use as a reference?
The tick is all the time. It even seems I hear more then one.

If you want to stick with a OEM (not sure why though,lol) you'd be better off with the cam for a 5.7 manual transmission Challenger,it's a little more aggressive then the HD 2500 cam is,and still keeps the VVT while being a non-mds cam.You could even step up to the 6.4 non-mds SRT cam (6 speed manual transmission 6.4 Challenger). Jay Greenes small .5 cam keeps the VVT and is a non-mds cam with the reputation of being a torque monster cam,it'll need a tune,but you should also have a tune for the OEM non-mds cams to though.Good news is you have a 14,so you don't need an unlocked PCM to tune it.Stick with OEM non-mds lifters if you go with a non-mds cam,don't cheap out on the lifters.

 

[Paul lynch]

The constant ticking could very well be broken exhaust manifold bolts
The ones that break off are the 4 bolts that hold on the Heat Shields.
If the heat shields can be wiggled at all, replace all of the exhaust manifold bolts with a quality made set of Grade 8

It could be but I don't believe so. I think we all know the lifter issues with these Hemi's. I

Just went through this on my truck cost wise if your like me and prefer to do it right so you do not have to go back into it for anything. I done cam, Lifters, had heads reworked new valve springs, new timing set and new VVT sprocket, new VVT valve, new water pump, New oil pump, new belt cost from rock auto just over 1,250 heads reworked 250.00 but mine is non MDS add 200 buck more for MDS lifters they are 392.00 a set and I used OEM mopar cam welling oil pump fel pro gasket set note VVT sprocket is 1 dollar higher cost than the rest of timing so total timing 130.00

Sounds like you did it the right way. That's basically what I have planned. I've did my research and know what I need. My issues is primarily the camshaft. I got to get rid of that MDS **** and can't seem to get a straight answer on if the 2500 cam will fit the 1500.

 

[RamRod37]

Sounds like you did it the right way. That's basically what I have planned. I've did my research and know what I need. My issues is primarily the camshaft. I got to get rid of that MDS **** and can't seem to get a straight answer on if the 2500 cam will fit the 1500.

yeah the the cam Mine used will work with yours if you are doing the MDS delete you will have to use it cause what I have seen the mds cam must be a different part no

 

[Paul lynch]

If you want to stick with a OEM (not sure why though,lol) you'd be better off with the cam for a 5.7 manual transmission Challenger,it's a little more aggressive then the HD 2500 cam is,and still keeps the VVT while being a non-mds cam.You could even step up to the 6.4 non-mds SRT cam (6 speed manual transmission 6.4 Challenger). Jay Greenes small .5 cam keeps the VVT and is a non-mds cam with the reputation of being a torque monster cam,it'll need a tune,but you should also have a tune for the OEM non-mds cams to though.Good news is you have a 14,so you don't need an unlocked PCM to tune it.Stick with OEM non-mds lifters if you go with a non-mds cam,don't cheap out on the lifters.

So would the cam for the manual 5.7 Challenger need a tune or will that baby drop right in?

 

[Paul lynch]

yeah the the cam Mine used will work with yours if you are doing the MDS delete you will have to use it cause what I have seen the mds cam must be a different part no

So is that just the stock 2500 cam?

 

[RamRod37]

Yesh

So is that just the stock 2500 cam?

OEM Spec cam hear is the Mopar Part # 53022314AD

 

[RamRod37]

Yesh

OEM Spec cam hear is the Mopar Part # 53022314AD

yeah different its 53022263AF for mds guess not sure why they changed the whole cam when the four lifters it looks like all that would need changed but yeah if your doing A delete and using something like ALPHA OBD to turn off the mds you could do away with the MDS cam and lifters on just go back stock MDS and use ALPHA to turn it off that way when you went to sell it It could be turned back on just an idea

 

[Paul lynch]

yeah different its 53022263AF for mds guess not sure why they changed the whole cam when the four lifters it looks like all that would need changed but yeah if your doing A delete and using something like ALPHA OBD to turn off the mds you could do away with the MDS cam and lifters on just go back stock MDS and use ALPHA to turn it off that way when you went to sell it It could be turned back on just an idea

Awesome! You gave me alot to think about. Thanks a million for the info.

 

[RamRod37]

Awesome! You gave me alot to think about. Thanks a million for the info.

I had done Some investigating too when I got my truck about deleting the MDS then read A post saying the 2500 HD did not have MDS so I just got lucky and avoided the whole mess that crap should have never been put on to start with if we wanted the fuel economy of a four banger we would just buy a small truck well that is my vent for the night and your welcome

 

[GTyankee]

I think that i read correctly:

https://www.moparpartswebstore.com/

2014 Ram 1500 V-8 5.7L naturally aspirated
Camshaft
#53022263AF

2014 Ram 2500 V-8 5.7L naturally aspirated
Camshaft
#53022314AD

I wrote naturally aspirated, as opposed to CNG

 

[Wild one]

If you do a OEM non-mds cam,you should use these factory block off plugs. All the factory non-mds engines use these plugs instead of the solenoids.

Mopar Performance 53032221AA Mopar Performance MDS Solenoid Block-Off Plugs | Summit Racing

 

[RamRod37]

I think that i read correctly:

https://www.moparpartswebstore.com/

2014 Ram 1500 V-8 5.7L naturally aspirated
Camshaft
#53022263AF

2014 Ram 2500 V-8 5.7L naturally aspirated
Camshaft
#53022314AD

I wrote naturally aspirated, as opposed to CNG

yes they show same part number on each for both CNG & gas models

 

[Wild one]

You guys should watch this video,as you might be better off leaving the mds active if you don't delete it properly with a non-mds cam and the above Mopar mds block-off plugs.It's also worth reading the first post under the video in the comments

5.7 HEMI Lifter Failure Could this FIX the lifter issue FOREVER? - YouTube


This comment by Mike Zobl is very interesting and is worth paying attention to


Mike Zobl1 month ago
You've got quite a few excellent observations, and as a powertrain engineer that daily drives a high mileage Hemi ('08 300 6.1L with 110k), I've been looking into prolonging its life. As some people have stated, vehicles with VVT and lots of idle hours (police Chargers, fleet Rams, etc) are the most commonly afflicted with lifter problems, but no Hemi is immune. Looking at the factory PCM tunes for the common Hemis, they tend to target a 500-550 RPM hot idle speed with 5W-20 oil. This is done to ensure the lowest emissions in these bread-and-butter engines. Meanwhile in non-MDS Hemis, they target a 700-725 RPM idle and mandate a 0W-40 Synthetic oil, and SRT engineers put out a TSB saying 15W-50 Synthetic was okay in warmer climates (TSB 09-011-06). As you can imagine, low emissions are not as much of a priority for these low production SRT and manual trans vehicles, so the engineers can recommend what the engine actually needs. So if you wanted to improve longevity, I'd start with the easiest thing: tuning in a higher idle speed for more oil pressure, and using thicker synthetic oil. And for more in-depth hardware changes, ditching the solenoids like you said and possibly switching to the high-volume SRT or even Melling oil pumps. I'm not sure if it's wise to use non-MDS lifters on an MDS cam. Typically, a deactivating lifter collapses faster/further than a non-deactivating lifter. To compensate for this, a deac cam lobe will have an additional 4-7° duration at 0.050" tappet lift, sometimes 60° or more additional duration at 0.006" tappet lift, and an additional 0.25 mm of valve lift. I'd imagine using the same style lifters on all cylinders with an MDS cam would put the engine out of balance with half the cylinders making more power than the other half. But it may not be a big deal.

 

[ram1500rsm]

You guys should watch this video,as you might be better off leaving the mds active if you don't delete it properly with a non-mds cam and the above Mopar mds block-off plugs.It's also worth reading the first post under the video in the comments

5.7 HEMI Lifter Failure Could this FIX the lifter issue FOREVER? - YouTube


This comment by Mike Zobl is very interesting and is worth paying attention to


Mike Zobl1 month ago
You've got quite a few excellent observations, and as a powertrain engineer that daily drives a high mileage Hemi ('08 300 6.1L with 110k), I've been looking into prolonging its life. As some people have stated, vehicles with VVT and lots of idle hours (police Chargers, fleet Rams, etc) are the most commonly afflicted with lifter problems, but no Hemi is immune. Looking at the factory PCM tunes for the common Hemis, they tend to target a 500-550 RPM hot idle speed with 5W-20 oil. This is done to ensure the lowest emissions in these bread-and-butter engines. Meanwhile in non-MDS Hemis, they target a 700-725 RPM idle and mandate a 0W-40 Synthetic oil, and SRT engineers put out a TSB saying 15W-50 Synthetic was okay in warmer climates (TSB 09-011-06). As you can imagine, low emissions are not as much of a priority for these low production SRT and manual trans vehicles, so the engineers can recommend what the engine actually needs. So if you wanted to improve longevity, I'd start with the easiest thing: tuning in a higher idle speed for more oil pressure, and using thicker synthetic oil. And for more in-depth hardware changes, ditching the solenoids like you said and possibly switching to the high-volume SRT or even Melling oil pumps. I'm not sure if it's wise to use non-MDS lifters on an MDS cam. Typically, a deactivating lifter collapses faster/further than a non-deactivating lifter. To compensate for this, a deac cam lobe will have an additional 4-7° duration at 0.050" tappet lift, sometimes 60° or more additional duration at 0.006" tappet lift, and an additional 0.25 mm of valve lift. I'd imagine using the same style lifters on all cylinders with an MDS cam would put the engine out of balance with half the cylinders making more power than the other half. But it may not be a big deal.

I'm looking at my 15 Scatpack 6.4L stock tune, 2014 Jeep SRT8 and a 14 Challenger RT and none of them are commanding a 700-725 idle speed. Sure the RAM 1500 seem to command the lowest idle of the pack for sure.

In the 15 stock Scatpack tune FCA never commands low idle mode, base is set for 552rpm but min ect to command that is 376F
So should idle around 650rpm past 194F ECT


2014 Jeep GC SRT8
690rpm past 194F in the P/N table, but low idle mode comes after 176F so that should drop to 550rpm


2014 Challenger RT
they command 696rpm in the P/N table after 185F but low idle is set at 560rpm after 176F


My 2014 RAM 1500
should idle at 584rpm past 140F per P/N table, but low idle set at 510rpm past 140F

 

[ripping r]

yeah different its 53022263AF for mds guess not sure why they changed the whole cam when the four lifters it looks like all that would need changed but yeah if your doing A delete and using something like ALPHA OBD to turn off the mds you could do away with the MDS cam and lifters on just go back stock MDS and use ALPHA to turn it off that way when you went to sell it It could be turned back on just an idea

so can ALPHA turn off mds on any ram? if so that would have saved me a lot of trouble.