Excited new Cummins owner wanting to delete

[CUtigerfan]

I've been a member here for a while. Found the inspiration and info I needed to lift my 2014 single cab 1500 and turn it into the truck I always wanted. But recently I've been bored with it and decided to bite the bullet on a 2014 Laramie crew cab with the 6.7 Cummins. Its a completely different animal but I'm really enjoying it so far but as usual the mod bug lingers on. So I'm really hoping you guys help me with a question I've been researching online.

I want to delete the truck. EGR, DPF, DEF, catalytic converters, muffler and all with a turbo back exhaust and S&B intake. I've been researching tuners and as much good as I've heard with the MiniMaxx I think I want to go the EFIlive route and have one solid tune written to serve my purpose. But all the info I've found is guys running HOT 100+ hp tunes and babying the throttle to avoid transmission damage or blown head gaskets or worse. Thats not my driving style and I want to be able to put the pedal down and the truck stay solid. Why is nobody really running a 30 or 60hp tune on their dailys? My thought is, with the truck deleted and breathing in and out better, wouldn't 30hp be a gracious plenty without all the factory restrictions? This really has me baffled. Please help me understand why nobody seems to be erring on the side of caution? I'm paying a nice little chunk on this truck every month and have no desire to build the transmission anytime soon.

 

[BossHogg]

have no desire to build the transmission anytime soon.

Then leave her stock. I'm assuming you have a 2500 with the 68RKE tranny, before tuning you need to put a few grand in to the transmission to handle the additional power.

Give the Race Me tuning solution a look at.

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

I ran a 100hp tune on my deleted 2010 that was a DD. Trans will be fine IF you avoid the WOT downshifts...........1st thru 4th are pretty stout. The overdrive clutches are what give the most issues, not a lot of space in there to add/beef them up.

 

[CUtigerfan]

Then leave her stock. I'm assuming you have a 2500 with the 68RKE tranny, before tuning you need to put a few grand in to the transmission to handle the additional power.

Give the Race Me tuning solution a look at.

Yes it is the auto transmission. And ideally I would build the transmission first but this is the avenue I'm pursuing and researching. Can you give a little more info on the Race Me or why that would be a better option than EFIlive with transmission tuning? I learned a long time ago that forums offer plenty of different perspectives and individual experiences so any information is greatly appreciated. I'm not extremely knowledgable about diesels. My thought is that with all the deletes and an intake/ 4" turbo back you are removing a ton of power robbing restriction that should open up a ton of real world drivability in the truck as far as throttle response and acceleration are concerned. I'm not interesting in overrunning the capabilities of my injectors by adding fuel and pretending the truck can handle an infinite amount of hp and torque. I don't see how my ability to play with tuner settings could compare to the efficiency and refinement someone could offer with a custom tune. Thats what I'm after is refining the stock components while removing the complicated emissions controls.

I ran a 100hp tune on my deleted 2010 that was a DD. Trans will be fine IF you avoid the WOT downshifts...........1st thru 4th are pretty stout. The overdrive clutches are what give the most issues, not a lot of space in there to add/beef them up.

Was the risk worth it? I don't want something I have to consciously baby when we're talking about dropping $5000 or more for a mistake. That seems like a high stakes game to play.

 

[BossHogg]

Yes it is the auto transmission. And ideally I would build the transmission first but this is the avenue I'm pursuing and researching. Can you give a little more info on the Race Me or why that would be a better option than EFIlive with transmission tuning?

My thought is that with all the deletes and an intake/ 4" turbo back you are removing a ton of power robbing restriction that should open up a ton of real world drivability in the truck as far as throttle response and acceleration are concerned.

I did not tune or delete my truck nor do I have any plans to do so. This decision came after a year or so of exploring the pros and cons of tuning and deleting. First, in fear of sounding like a tree hugger, I'm fairly proud that my exhaust is cleaner than the air going in. It is also common knowledge NOX turns to acid in our lungs. Off that bandwagon.

On the Cummins forum, there is a section dedicated to current production engine performance. There, you can find a wealth of discussions on EFI Live, Race Me, and other tuning solutions. Each has their, no surprises here, pros and cons. The tuning solutions are always evolving and many issues you see there may be fixed by now.

The Cummins powertrain is amazing, it will work hard all day and never complain. The air in/exhaust out design fits the engine well and modification to it doesn't make a difference. The current emissions systems yields awesome power and excellent MPG. People that tune do not realize an increase in MPG and some report a loss of MPG.

The factory programming has a lot of torque management most noticeable in the early gears likely designed to start the load moving while protecting the drive-line, then allowing full torque once in fourth gear. I don't have an issues with the design but my needs are very focused. You may find just a simple tune that calms down the torque management is all you need leaving the emissions intact. Search for emissions intact tunes on the Cummins forum.

As far as the transmission, from what I've read, you will push the 68RFE too hard and it will fail. You just as well address the transmission upfront. Seems the guys favor Revmax, http://www.revmaxconverters.com/ind...esel-truck-rebuild-kits/rebuild-kit-2315.html

I bought the Cummins to pull our 15,000 pound fifth wheel around our country beginning next year when we retire. I want reliability and warranty. I bought the extended warranty (120K miles 8 years) just in case. Once I'm out of warranty and the emissions system becomes more costly to repair than a delete, guess what

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

Was the risk worth it? I don't want something I have to consciously baby when we're talking about dropping $5000 or more for a mistake. That seems like a high stakes game to play.

It was for me and I didn't exactly baby the truck, just knew what the tranny's weakness was. And beleive me, you do enough WOT downshifts on a stock truck and you will burn up the overdrive clutches. As I said, the tranny is pretty stout 1st thru 4th and can handle some abuse.

My biggest improvement from the delete was an immediate increase of 3 MPG across the board. Ya, she ran better but the newer emmisions setup seems to be a bit better though I dont have any first hand experience with the DEF trucks.

And FWIW, the tune I ran WOULD NOT roal coal (fully deleted) even if you tried. Worst it would do is give a slight puff of gray that you had to be looking for or you wouldn't see it, it was very clean.

If it was me, I'd start with just a tuner and see how you like it, gonna need one anyway if you're gonna delete.

 

[Ram444]

I have a 2014 Ram 3500 with the 6.7L Cummins you speak of. I have all the deletes already done and the performance is phenomenal. I do have the Aisin transmission and was told it will reliably hold 700 hp. I took my truck to a local diesel performance shop for recommendations. I highly recommend you seek professional guidance and installation since those guys know what has or hasn't proven to be reliable. My truck was mildly enhanced with a BullyDog GT tuner, EFI Live programming, deletes, AEM air intake and filter, 5" exhaust with an Aero muffler (sounds nice and not overly loud)..... I'm told the hp is in the 540-600 hp at the rear wheels. I'm running 37" Tires and they'll break loose at 20mph if you're using stage 3 or 4. The speed eliminator is gone. I'm getting roughly 14.2 mpg around town and 18+ on the highway and that's with a freaking huge truck pushing 8000#!

 

[CUtigerfan]

Do any of you guys have an opinion on the TS Stryker module? I can't seem to find enough information to justify the $800 price tag. It is intriguing though since I have 22k miles left on my powertrain warranty. I would be buying it as something to keep my warranty intact while still seeking to help the truck perform to its potential. If I wanted more later down the road I can still delete.

 

[Ram444]

Why don't you start with a BullyDog GT programmer and go from there?

 

[CUtigerfan]

Why don't you start with a BullyDog GT programmer and go from there?

I don't want to void my warranty by unlocking the truck. I'm either gonna go all the way with deletes or try something like the Stryker for now and evaluate just how much I'm willing to spend modding the truck

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

I don't want to diss our forum here or break any rules but you'd be better served by another forum...........add the name of your diesel to "forum"

 

[CUtigerfan]

I don't want to diss our forum here or break any rules but you'd be better served by another forum...........add the name of your diesel to "forum"

thanks for the tip. It seems that my original question has been watered down anyway. Seems to me that most people run hot tunes simply because the tuner will let them and I guess the truck will too.. temporarily

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

The truck will take some "play'n" around, it's not that fragile!

Seriously, avoid the WOT downshifts and the trans will last quite awhile. I put over 100k miles between the 2 6.7 CTD's I had, never touched the tranny in either.

 

[MN-Ram]

I don't know about the new 6.7L Cummins, but I had a 5.9L with just the Bullydog Power Pup on econo tune with an AFE intake, and that was plenty of power. I have heard the new emissions make it a little more expensive to tune, but it did not take a whole lot to notice a difference in the 5.9L.

Good luck with you truck, and hope the transmission holds up for ya.

 

[SouthTexan]

I don't want to void my warranty by unlocking the truck. I'm either gonna go all the way with deletes or try something like the Stryker for now and evaluate just how much I'm willing to spend modding the truck

You will need the Bullydog anyways if you are going to delete your truck with EFI live. You either take off your ECM and send it to Fleece performance so they can unlock it or buy the Bullydog GT(with unlock cable) and it takes 15 minutes to unlock. If you are going to go the Bullydog route, then you might as well get it now to try it out because you will need it later.

Look into PPEI diesel with tunes from Kory Willis or Hardway performance with tunes from Ryan Milliken(EFIbyRyan). Both are damn good tuners and are well known in the Cummins world. They both used to work with each other, and still collaborate together. PPEI is more expensive if you want the 68RFE tuned with better shift points, clutch lock up, and line pressure increases which I recommend if you are adding any power. Hardway does not charge extra for their 68RFE tuning. They both have very mild 30 hp tunes.

Raceme Ultra are just canned tunes and are no where near the custom tunes that PPEI and Hardway put out. Oh, and the 68RFE was updated with the new 2012-2013 power numbers.

 

[CUtigerfan]

The truck will take some "play'n" around, it's not that fragile!

Seriously, avoid the WOT downshifts and the trans will last quite awhile. I put over 100k miles between the 2 6.7 CTD's I had, never touched the tranny in either.

When you say WOT downshifts you're referring to cruising down the road and just deciding to put it to the floor allowing the transmission to downshift pretty violently as you attempt to get that "neck snapping" feel you get in a gas truck?

 

[CUtigerfan]

You will need the Bullydog anyways if you are going to delete your truck with EFI live. You either take off your ECM and send it to Fleece performance so they can unlock it or buy the Bullydog GT(with unlock cable) and it takes 15 minutes to unlock. If you are going to go the Bullydog route, then you might as well get it now to try it out because you will need it later.

Looked into PPEI diesel with tunes from Kory Willis or Hardway performance with tunes from Ryan Milliken(EFIbyRyan). Both are damn good tuners and we'll known in the Cummins world. They both used to work with each, and still collaborate with each other. PPEI is more expensive if you want the 68RFE tuned with better shift points, clutch lock up, and line pressure increases which I recommend if you are adding any power. Hardway does not charge extra for their 68RFE tuning. They both have very mild 30 hp tunes.

Thats exactly who I was going to go through but all the info I read doesn't show anyone going with the mild tune options or at least not giving any feedback. I'm still convinced that a mild tune would be very noticeable by the time all the mods add up but nobody will confirm that.

 

[SouthTexan]

Thats exactly who I was going to go through but all the info I read doesn't show anyone going with the mild tune options or at least not giving any feedback. I'm still convinced that a mild tune would be very noticeable by the time all the mods add up but nobody will confirm that.

That is the advantage of a custom tune versus a canned tune. The tuner customizes the tune to your liking. It may take a couple rounds of data logging to get it right, but he can tailor it to your liking. Ryan and Kory also calibrate the accelerator pedal to get rid of the dead pedal. A friend of mine has a mild 25 hp tunes from EFIBYRYAN and it is hands down better than my Edge and all the things I got in my signature. The transmission tuning alone makes a world of difference.

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

When you say WOT downshifts you're referring to cruising down the road and just deciding to put it to the floor allowing the transmission to downshift pretty violently as you attempt to get that "neck snapping" feel you get in a gas truck?

Yes. If you need to drop a gear or 2, just manually drop it and let her do her thing.

The inherent design flaw of the 68RfE is there just isn't sufficient physical space inside to beef the overdrive clutches so when you're cruising along and floor it, the poor overdrive clutches are getting beat to death during the downshift.

 

[Ram444]

I've been a member here for a while. Found the inspiration and info I needed to lift my 2014 single cab 1500 and turn it into the truck I always wanted. But recently I've been bored with it and decided to bite the bullet on a 2014 Laramie crew cab with the 6.7 Cummins. Its a completely different animal but I'm really enjoying it so far but as usual the mod bug lingers on. So I'm really hoping you guys help me with a question I've been researching online.

I want to delete the truck. EGR, DPF, DEF, catalytic converters, muffler and all with a turbo back exhaust and S&B intake. I've been researching tuners and as much good as I've heard with the MiniMaxx I think I want to go the EFIlive route and have one solid tune written to serve my purpose. But all the info I've found is guys running HOT 100+ hp tunes and babying the throttle to avoid transmission damage or blown head gaskets or worse. Thats not my driving style and I want to be able to put the pedal down and the truck stay solid. Why is nobody really running a 30 or 60hp tune on their dailys? My thought is, with the truck deleted and breathing in and out better, wouldn't 30hp be a gracious plenty without all the factory restrictions? This really has me baffled. Please help me understand why nobody seems to be erring on the side of caution? I'm paying a nice little chunk on this truck every month and have no desire to build the transmission anytime soon.

Surely you understand that unlike gas engines diesels make their best numbers low in the rpm range. With my application I have 4 separate performance options with a simple twist of a button. I generally leave mine in the economy position unless I decide someone needs their doors blown off. Even with the economy setting the throttle is more responsive with light to medium pressure than WOT. I owned a supercharged Tundra that had power clear across the rpm range but again that was a gasser. If you're worried about the transmission you could always leave it in the economy mode.