Help with geometry fail…

[MONTANAGRL410]

Hello. So, I lifted my ram 1500 2015. It has a 6” fabtech lift. On 37s ..Regrettably I was told to achieve more lift I could add Bilstein 5100 extendable struts (that add 2.75”) to achieve that extra lift, instead of a body lift, as I wanted to be bigger…. But I’ve had geometry troubles ever since even though the shop told me I wouldn’t when I asked. My control arms were factory and my ball joints were SUPER bound up and the control arm angle was very steep and my caster was maxed. My truck drove AWFUL. Darty, whipped all over. Had to be very careful. Through some research I discovered I needed upgraded UCAs so I got core 4x4 adjustable control arms, which helped tremendously fix my angle and free my ball joint, and allow for more room to align my truck.

So I’ve taken my truck to an align and tire shop that has been very helpful. We reset my specs back to factory, for a baseline, then began adjusting it. You will see my current specs in attachment.

My truck now I would say is 80% better, from before, but I feel like my steering is still reactive, I wish I could resolve that, and the truck kinda handles bumps rough. Kinda jarring, the whole cab feels stiff and it sorta makes the back end feel a little like it’s skipping over bumps then jarring the whole cab around, which sometimes at 60-70mph that can then affect my steering as my truck recovers from bumps, it kinda loses its “tracking” it seems.

I’ve exhausted myself on this issue. I REALLY wanted the novelty of having a large 1500, but not at the expense of my geometry, I never would’ve lifted it more if I knew that would be messed up. My questions are….

1) is there anything else I can differently to help my steering feel less tight/tense and help the stiff ride over bumps?
2) does having the struts at their max 2.75” contribute to the stiff ride? I’m assuming if it does, it’s because the strut is fully compressed up ?

I’m really frustrated and I have spent a lot of money troubleshooting this. My truck is my baby and I really just want it “right”, or close to how it was, even tho it was lifted 6” I’ve always been proud that it rides like a Cadillac. Not so much anymore haha
Any help is appreciated. Attached you will find pics of my lift components, the bilsteins, my alignment specs and my truck just for reference lol

 

[Sherman Bird]

Look at your steering knuckle from the front towards rear for this analogy:
Draw a line through the upper ball joint center pivot point and extend it through the same point into the lower ball joint. This is called the steering axis inclination (SAI). Extend this line down through the tire. Depending on tire size and/or offset, the results should be where the intersection of that (SAI) line and the center of the tread should occur where the rubber meets the road.

Imagine turning the steering at a stop. The intersection of these 2 lines determine "tire scrub", or, IOW, the presence or absence of an arc in that scrub, caused by the 2 lines intersecting either inboard or outboard of that tire tread center.

Now, consider the importance of the angle (included angle) of the upper and lower ball joints. Why is this? This makes the spindle go through and arc as the wheels are turned. The apex of the arc is the center of the rotation of the axis of these ball joints when the wheels are straight ahead, thus causing the weight of the truck to seek the center top of this arc. That is what, combined with caster causes the steering to return to straight ahead. It provides stability in the steering at speed. (Think of turning a bicycle fork backwards and trying to control the bike pedaling forward... it's nigh impossible).

All of the variables to geometry from both body lifts and suspension lifts are why I refuse to work on modified suspension. The liability of tampering with factory engineering is greater than I'm willing to shoulder at this twilight point in my career. I know that there are folks who do diligence and a good job in these mods, and I respect that right.

But, knowing the spirit of liability laws, I'll bow out on it. This tidbit of insight is less than the tip of the iceberg! Peace!

 

[MONTANAGRL410]

Thanks

Look at your steering knuckle from the front towards rear for this analogy:
Draw a line through the upper ball joint center pivot point and extend it through the same point into the lower ball joint. This is called the steering axis inclination (SAI). Extend this line down through the tire. Depending on tire size and/or offset, the results should be where the intersection of that (SAI) line and the center of the tread should occur where the rubber meets the road.

Imagine turning the steering at a stop. The intersection of these 2 lines determine "tire scrub", or, IOW, the presence or absence of an arc in that scrub, caused by the 2 lines intersecting either inboard or outboard of that tire tread center.

Now, consider the importance of the angle (included angle) of the upper and lower ball joints. Why is this? This makes the spindle go through and arc as the wheels are turned. The apex of the arc is the center of the rotation of the axis of these ball joints when the wheels are straight ahead, thus causing the weight of the truck to seek the center top of this arc. That is what, combined with caster causes the steering to return to straight ahead. It provides stability in the steering at speed. (Think of turning a bicycle fork backwards and trying to control the bike pedaling forward... it's nigh impossible).

All of the variables to geometry from both body lifts and suspension lifts are why I refuse to work on modified suspension. The liability of tampering with factory engineering is greater than I'm willing to shoulder at this twilight point in my career. I know that there are folks who do diligence and a good job in these mods, and I respect that right.

But, knowing the spirit of liability laws, I'll bow out on it. This tidbit of insight is less than the tip of the iceberg! Peace!

for the reply

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Hello. So, I lifted my ram 1500 2015. It has a 6” fabtech lift. On 37s ..Regrettably I was told to achieve more lift I could add Bilstein 5100 extendable struts (that add 2.75”) to achieve that extra lift, instead of a body lift, as I wanted to be bigger…. But I’ve had geometry troubles ever since even though the shop told me I wouldn’t when I asked. My control arms were factory and my ball joints were SUPER bound up and the control arm angle was very steep and my caster was maxed. My truck drove AWFUL. Darty, whipped all over. Had to be very careful. Through some research I discovered I needed upgraded UCAs so I got core 4x4 adjustable control arms, which helped tremendously fix my angle and free my ball joint, and allow for more room to align my truck.

So I’ve taken my truck to an align and tire shop that has been very helpful. We reset my specs back to factory, for a baseline, then began adjusting it. You will see my current specs in attachment.

My truck now I would say is 80% better, from before, but I feel like my steering is still reactive, I wish I could resolve that, and the truck kinda handles bumps rough. Kinda jarring, the whole cab feels stiff and it sorta makes the back end feel a little like it’s skipping over bumps then jarring the whole cab around, which sometimes at 60-70mph that can then affect my steering as my truck recovers from bumps, it kinda loses its “tracking” it seems.

I’ve exhausted myself on this issue. I REALLY wanted the novelty of having a large 1500, but not at the expense of my geometry, I never would’ve lifted it more if I knew that would be messed up. My questions are….

1) is there anything else I can differently to help my steering feel less tight/tense and help the stiff ride over bumps?
2) does having the struts at their max 2.75” contribute to the stiff ride? I’m assuming if it does, it’s because the strut is fully compressed up ?

I’m really frustrated and I have spent a lot of money troubleshooting this. My truck is my baby and I really just want it “right”, or close to how it was, even tho it was lifted 6” I’ve always been proud that it rides like a Cadillac. Not so much anymore haha
Any help is appreciated. Attached you will find pics of my lift components, the bilsteins, my alignment specs and my truck just for reference lol

I had my truck over 9" in the front and you are basically right there. The 1500's just dont like that height and the ride will always be bad. Ride is your own opinion so you will get varied answers. So you have 2 options. Stay at the height your at and move to Billstein 6112's in the front. They are much better and come with a better coil spring over the stock coil spring. Option 2 is to lower down. I ended up with the full length coilovers as that is the absolute best ride you can achieve. The electronic steering rack could also be on the fritz and making it feel like it is a suspension issue. A lot of guys have had issues with them and its not talked about a lot on the forums. The oil filter drains on the passenger steering rack bushing causing premature wear and the electronic rack can only really be felt when it fails leaving no power steering at all.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Hello. So, I lifted my ram 1500 2015. It has a 6” fabtech lift. On 37s ..Regrettably I was told to achieve more lift I could add Bilstein 5100 extendable struts (that add 2.75”) to achieve that extra lift, instead of a body lift, as I wanted to be bigger…. But I’ve had geometry troubles ever since even though the shop told me I wouldn’t when I asked. My control arms were factory and my ball joints were SUPER bound up and the control arm angle was very steep and my caster was maxed. My truck drove AWFUL. Darty, whipped all over. Had to be very careful. Through some research I discovered I needed upgraded UCAs so I got core 4x4 adjustable control arms, which helped tremendously fix my angle and free my ball joint, and allow for more room to align my truck.

So I’ve taken my truck to an align and tire shop that has been very helpful. We reset my specs back to factory, for a baseline, then began adjusting it. You will see my current specs in attachment.

My truck now I would say is 80% better, from before, but I feel like my steering is still reactive, I wish I could resolve that, and the truck kinda handles bumps rough. Kinda jarring, the whole cab feels stiff and it sorta makes the back end feel a little like it’s skipping over bumps then jarring the whole cab around, which sometimes at 60-70mph that can then affect my steering as my truck recovers from bumps, it kinda loses its “tracking” it seems.

I’ve exhausted myself on this issue. I REALLY wanted the novelty of having a large 1500, but not at the expense of my geometry, I never would’ve lifted it more if I knew that would be messed up. My questions are….

1) is there anything else I can differently to help my steering feel less tight/tense and help the stiff ride over bumps?
2) does having the struts at their max 2.75” contribute to the stiff ride? I’m assuming if it does, it’s because the strut is fully compressed up ?

I’m really frustrated and I have spent a lot of money troubleshooting this. My truck is my baby and I really just want it “right”, or close to how it was, even tho it was lifted 6” I’ve always been proud that it rides like a Cadillac. Not so much anymore haha
Any help is appreciated. Attached you will find pics of my lift components, the bilsteins, my alignment specs and my truck just for reference lol

the rear drivers side toe is a little concerning as well

 

[leftchevybehind]

big no on body lifts

im surprised the vendor or shop didn't recommend upgrading your stock UCAs when they initially installed ur 6" kit

if this is your daily driver, you'll be trading in that truck in about 2 years lol, driving huge monster trucks gets old

 

[El Toro Blanco]

Aesthetically, it may be appealing, but your large diameter wheels, and lower profile tires are not helping your ride quality. Taller tire sidewalls absorb more bumps and softens steering reactions...both, inputs from the road, and the steering wheel. Unfortunately, changing those is not cheap.

Hot Rodder's Law: For every modification made, (at least) two other modifications will need to be made...to make the first modification work.

 

[DILLIGAF]

driving huge monster trucks gets old

Said no one ever

 

[Dean2]

Jacking a 1500 up 9 inches, adding hugely over size tires, stiifer shocks and expecting it to drive great on the street, and particularly at freeway speeds seems kind of naive. You either get the looks you want or street performance. The fact you have got back to anywhere close to decent handling with that combination actually kind of amazes me.