Melling oil pump 10452 or 10452HV

[fadetoblack188]

What’s up guys sorry for all these questions. I don’t want to be stuck with an open motor and the wrong parts. I am seeing melling oil pumping the way to go now. But I’m seeing two diff part numbers that fit.

Am I going with the standard 10452 pump or the 10452HV pump ( high volume ). I ordered the regular 10452 and now I am seeing some guys are using the HV part number.

Wouldn’t be a big deal to exchange it. Which one should I install

Thanks again

 

[TiredRooster]

Based on what I have read for a while now, if I were replacing the oil pump, I would put the high volume on there for sure.

 

[Black1500Ram]

If you have a 2014 (per your sig) look into raising your idle speed sine your pcm isn't locked.
If you're going to add a pump, high volume for sure.

 

[fadetoblack188]

if you look at the description for the 10452 it already says " standard volume high pressue " so i guess its better then stock but not " high volume" ok so then i am going return the 10452 and buy the 10452HV

 

[fadetoblack188]

which spring should i have installed in the pump? the stock pressure or the high pressure spring

 

[Wild one]

which spring should i have installed in the pump? the stock pressure or the high pressure spring

Stock pressure,and as stated up your idle rpm,as the high volumn pump still doesn't address the lack of oil to the lifters roller and the face of the cam lobe,those are oiled by crank splash,and the only way to get more oil onto them at idle is up the idle rpm to 725/750 rpm.

 

[fadetoblack188]

Stock pressure,and as stated up your idle rpm,as the high volumn pump still doesn't address the lack of oil to the lifters roller and the face of the cam lobe,those are oiled by crank splash,and the only way to get more oil onto them at idle is up the idle rpm to 725/750 rpm.

Ok so the high volume pump will create more pressure at idle but still won’t soak the lifters enough.

I will need to purchase a tuner to increase idle. What do you recommend?

 

[Wild one]

Ok so the high volume pump will create more pressure at idle but still won’t soak the lifters enough.

I will need to purchase a tuner to increase idle. What do you recommend?

The lifters themselves get lots of oil,it's the roller/wheel and face of the cam lobe that don't get enough oil.The roller and cam lobe are basically sitting out in the open,and the only oil they get is from crank splash.If you have access to a tore down Hemi with the oil pan off and crank removed,you can see the cam lobes and lifter rollers from the bottom of the engine.There's nothing feeding any oil to them,although i've wondered if the 6.4's piston oil squirters could be modded to spray oil onto the cam lobes instead of the bottom of the piston
HP is the better tuner set-up,if you want to tune the engine,but if all you're wanting to do is to up the idle rpm,any Diablo will do the trick.
Not many tuners still tune with Diablo anymore,so take that into consideration if you do decide to have a custom tune done

 

[crash68]

i've wondered if the 6.4's piston oil squirters could be modded to spray oil onto the cam lobes instead of the bottom of the piston

Probably not something you would want to modify on a 6.4 truck that works for living, probably need the piston cooling when pulling a grade under load.
If there was a way to make this mod on the 5.7 without having to pull the engine, you could make a fortune!

 

[Wild one]

Probably not something you would want to modify on a 6.4 truck that works for living, probably need the piston cooling when pulling a grade under load.
If there was a way to make this mod on the 5.7 without having to pull the engine, you could make a fortune!

I think you'd want to upgrade the pistons if you were trying to mod the squirters. Most 6.4 stroker kits do away with the squirters to gain enough clearance for the increased stroke,but they also upgrade the pistons when they do that.

 

[fadetoblack188]

Stock pressure,and as stated up your idle rpm,as the high volumn pump still doesn't address the lack of oil to the lifters roller and the face of the cam lobe,those are oiled by crank splash,and the only way to get more oil onto them at idle is up the idle rpm to 725/750 rpm.

with the stock pressure spring installed that comes with the mellings hv pump, the idle oil pressure will still be increase?

 

[Wild one]

with the stock pressure spring installed that comes with the mellings hv pump, the idle oil pressure will still be increase?

Yes,but it still won't put more oil onto the parts that need the oil.Way to many guys think this will cure the lifter issue because of Ignited Cycles video,and it won't,as it still doesn't address the weak link in the hemi's oiling system,which is lack of oil flung onto the cam lobes and lifter rollers.The lobes and rollers sit out in the open in the crankcase and there is no pressurized oil fed to them

 

[crash68]

I think you'd want to upgrade the pistons if you were trying to mod the squirters. Most 6.4 stroker kits do away with the squirters to gain enough clearance for the increased stroke,but they also upgrade the pistons when they do that.

I doubt many people would be pulling a heavy load up a grade after stroking a 6.4 truck. If one is sinking money into the engine, of course better pistons should go in. Spraying the pistons helps with cooling the engine overall, not just for the pistons.

 

[Wild one]

I doubt many people would be pulling a heavy load up a grade after stroking a 6.4 truck. If one is sinking money into the engine, of course better pistons should go in. Spraying the pistons helps with cooling the engine overall, not just for the pistons.

I don't know how much i agree with that,lol. Spraying the bottoms of the pistons puts alot more heat into the oil,and doesn't really do much for taking heat out of the cooling system. If you were to run a seperate oil cooler like the Hellcats do,then you'd see a bigger benefit as your oil temps would drop with the cooler
The 6.4's might benefit more from the high volumn pumps everybody seems to be hung up on these days,then the 5.7's as the squirters are basically another leak point

 

[crash68]

I don't know how much i agree with that,lol. Spraying the bottoms of the pistons puts alot more heat into the oil,and doesn't really do much for taking heat out of the cooling system. If you were to run a seperate oil cooler like the Hellcats do,then you'd see a bigger benefit as your oil temps would drop with the cooler

Well the heat can't stay in the engine and be moved to the oil, laws of thermal transfer dictate that.
The 6.4 does have an oil cooler, unless the factory radiator doesn't have enough capacity the oil cooler will do it's job. Don't hear about these 6.4 overheating unless the thermostat is bad.

 

[Wild one]

Well the heat can't stay in the engine and be moved to the oil, laws of thermal transfer dictate that.
The 6.4 does have an oil cooler, unless the factory radiator doesn't have enough capacity the oil cooler will do it's job. Don't hear about these 6.4 overheating unless the thermostat is bad.

They run way hotter oil temps then a comparable 5.7 does.The majority of piston temp is transfered to the cooling jacket.. The BGE block was developed with the idea it was going to be boosted ,so the squirters were designed in right from the get go,with the permiss of running a seperate stand alone oil cooler,to pull the oil heat generated by squirters down to a managable temperature. The 6.4's don't run a cooler as much as they run an oil heater,that'd be the same as saying the thermal management unit on the side of the 8 speeds is a cooler,when it's an oil heater.Even if you classed it as an oil cooler,it doesn't have enough surface area to cool the oil,especially when you factor in the fact it's passing several gallons of oil through it every minute at highway speeds

 

[Wild one]

Well the heat can't stay in the engine and be moved to the oil, laws of thermal transfer dictate that.
The 6.4 does have an oil cooler, unless the factory radiator doesn't have enough capacity the oil cooler will do it's job. Don't hear about these 6.4 overheating unless the thermostat is bad.

If you haven't read this article,it has some good info,along with pictures showing the squirters and the BGE's taller water jackets

We Scored a $400 Junkyard 392ci Hemi From a Ram Truck—and It’s the Mother Lode!

Our 392 BGE Hemi build-up journey starts with buying a mysterious junkyard Ram Truck 392 Hemi core. We crack it open and find the mother lode!

www.motortrend.com

 

[crash68]

They run way hotter oil temps then a comparable 5.7 does.The majority of piston temp is transfered to the cooling jacket.. The BGE block was developed with the idea it was going to be boosted ,so the squirters were designed in right from the get go,with the permiss of running a seperate stand alone oil cooler,to pull the oil heat generated by squirters down to a managable temperature. The 6.4's don't run a cooler as much as they run an oil heater,that'd be the same as saying the thermal management unit on the side of the 8 speeds is a cooler,when it's an oil heater.Even if you classed it as an oil cooler,it doesn't have enough surface area to cool the oil,especially when you factor in the fact it's passing several gallons of oil through it every minute at highway speeds

One thing is always true, an automotive manufacturer won't put something on a vehicle unless it's needed or the cost can be justified. You won't see a big block engine boosted for a work vehicle so the sprays were put there for thermal management. It's one thing to run hot on a pull down the strip, it's entirely different loaded pulling a grade. Also the article notes the top piston ring is lower on the truck engine, it also utilizes sodium exhaust valves. All points to the expectation of hotter running cylinder temps.
Over cooling the coolant and/or oil can cause issues when the engine is heat soaked under load where parts of the engine will be significantly different then others, this can be bad for cylinders as it can affect the combustion process. It's almost mind boggling how many temperature sensors are placed all over engines when the OEM is testing them.
There have been countless conversations about the oil cooler/heater over on an EcoDiesel forum, if it transfers heat that happens both directions.
With a Hellcat the thermal load can far exceed the cooling system capacity, hence the oil cooler needs to be able to cool just as fast meaning the temperature difference across the cooler has to be higher. The truck oil cooler is more like cruise control, it's cycle is going to be over a long length of time.

 

[Wild one]

One thing is always true, an automotive manufacturer won't put something on a vehicle unless it's needed or the cost can be justified. You won't see a big block engine boosted for a work vehicle so the sprays were put there for thermal management. It's one thing to run hot on a pull down the strip, it's entirely different loaded pulling a grade. Also the article notes the top piston ring is lower on the truck engine, it also utilizes sodium exhaust valves. All points to the expectation of hotter running cylinder temps.
Over cooling the coolant and/or oil can cause issues when the engine is heat soaked under load where parts of the engine will be significantly different then others, this can be bad for cylinders as it can affect the combustion process. It's almost mind boggling how many temperature sensors are placed all over engines when the OEM is testing them.
There have been countless conversations about the oil cooler/heater over on an EcoDiesel forum, if it transfers heat that happens both directions.
With a Hellcat the thermal load can far exceed the cooling system capacity, hence the oil cooler needs to be able to cool just as fast meaning the temperature difference across the cooler has to be higher. The truck oil cooler is more like cruise control, it's cycle is going to be over a long length of time.

The Trucks cooler isn't a cooler as much as it's a heater. The squirters are positioned to cool the top end of the rod and wrist pin,more then they cool the actual body of the piston.We've had this conversation before where you think there's a differance, and the last time around you were telling me the load at the track was harder on a vehicle then pulling a grade loaded was,glad to see you've come around to my way of thinking lol.The 2500's don't get the sodium cooled valves,only the 3500 and heavier trucks get the good valves.
This is the so-called oil cooler, pay real close attention to the size of coolant hoses feeding it,and it's physical size Phil,how much heat do you think it'll actually pull out of the oil when it's passing several gallons of oil per minute.

2012-2024 Ram Engine Oil Cooler 04893309AA | Canada Mopar® Estores

2012-2024 Ram Engine Oil Cooler 04893309AA

store.mopar.ca

 

[crash68]

This is the so-called oil cooler, pay real close attention to the size of coolant hoses feeding it,and it's physical size Phil,how much heat do you think it'll actually pull out of the oil when it's passing several gallons of oil per minute.

Let me put this statement from you to me in a perspective you can understand.. those round things on the rims of a dragster with no tread are called drag slicks. I'm probably a little more versed in heat transfer than you think.
If oil heat exchanger is a heater, how much heat could it put into the oil passing several gpm? Heat transfer is a two way street, the physical number is sorta arbitrary. Even wonder how it's possible for a heat pump to work in 0° outside temperatures? This topics has been discussed in such more lengths and depth on an EcoDiesel forum.
As for the load of a drag strip vs pulling a grade boils down to how much over what amount of time.

The oil cooler on the HD 6.4 truck engines is a little bit larger than the 5.7 Hemi version..

04893200AC - Ram Cooler. Engine oil. Adapter, filter, hemi | Chrysler Jeep Dodge City, McKinney TX

Genuine Ram Part # 04893200AC - Cooler. Engine oil. Adapter, filter, hemi. Fits 2500, 3500, 4500, 5500. Ships from Chrysler Jeep Dodge City, McKinney TX

parts.chryslerjeepdodgecityofmckinney.com