Need Advice - 2020 Ram 2500 & Towing 5th Wheel Toy Hauler

[MOT5Deep]

Long post but I'm kind of at a loss right now. Truck is a 2500 Laramie 6.4L V8 with standard/short box and 3.73 axle ratio. VIN states: Towing capacity is 14,080 lbs; Payload capacity is 3,014 lbs; GVWR is 10,000 lbs. Right now I'm towing a bumper pull 2012 Keystone Cougar 31SQB. TT is about 36 feet. Dry weight is 7,169 lbs and GVWR of 9,000 lbs. My truck tows it perfectly. I've towed uphill over Four Peaks Mountain, and the truck doesn't struggle. On level surface or small upgrades, it doesn't feel like I've got anything behind me.

We want to upgrade to a 5th wheel toy hauler. Intend to load a 4 seat RZR and/or quad and preferably needs some fold down bunks for kids. The debacle is I have no idea what is within the capacity of my truck. I've had everyone tell me I can only look at very light 5th wheels to I can handle a a dry weight 12,000 lb rig, fully loaded, and would be totally fine. So now I have no idea what in reality my truck is capable of handling safely or without beating the **** out of it. Any practical / real life advice or experience from guys towing something similar with the same capacity truck?

Side question: I have no idea what 5th wheel hitch to get. My truck is goose neck ready with the pucks. Started looking at hitches and am completely overwhelmed by choices. Some slide, some don't slide. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated as well.

 

[Ratman6161]

I have a similar truck except mine is a bighorn with 4.10's and a tow fating of 16,700. Are you sure about that payload number? I ask because mine is only 2974 and theoretically with a laramie/3.73, yours should be less? Is that number from the trucks sticker?

I'm currently towing a tt of similar size as yours but have done some homew9rk on the subject. Have you weighed your truck? Figure out how much of your payload is left after you load all the people and stuff you usually have on a trip then subtract about 200 for a 5th wheel hitch. What ever is left is available for hitch weight. In my case that's 2340. Th3n assume a hitch weight of 20% of gvwr and I get 11,700.

 

[Hvytrkmech]

My 2500 6.4 4:10 is rated at 16k 5th wheel towing. Pretty sure I'd need to airbag it for that weight. I think youd be fine around 12k. Anything more I'd recommend a diesel. For comparison my 06 Ram quad cab 8'ft bed with 4:10 gears pulled multiple 5th wheels from 10k-17k without any effort or airbags. Todays emissions laden diesels arent worth buying unless they are going to work all the time. The conundrum continues.....

 

[MOT5Deep]

I have a similar truck except mine is a bighorn with 4.10's and a tow fating of 16,700. Are you sure about that payload number? I ask because mine is only 2974 and theoretically with a laramie/3.73, yours should be less? Is that number from the trucks sticker?

I'm currently towing a tt of similar size as yours but have done some homew9rk on the subject. Have you weighed your truck? Figure out how much of your payload is left after you load all the people and stuff you usually have on a trip then subtract about 200 for a 5th wheel hitch. What ever is left is available for hitch weight. In my case that's 2340. Th3n assume a hitch weight of 20% of gvwr and I get 11,700.

Yep those numbers are from the door sticker. Also cross checked using VIN online and when to that VIN decoder website to get the same numbers showing up. My understanding is the gassers have more payload capacity than the diesels but obviously Diesels more hauling power via torque. Haven’t checked the curb weight of my truck. I think GCWR is around 21,400 or so. Online says my truck (forgot to mention 4WD) should weigh around 6,800 lbs.

 

[crash68]

I have no idea what 5th wheel hitch to get. My truck is goose neck ready with the pucks. Started looking at hitches and am completely overwhelmed by choices. Some slide, some don't slide. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated as well.

Having the short bed (6.4') you'll probably want to lean twords a slider. A slider allows the hitch to move backwards to allow more room when turning extremely tight as some trailers can hit the cab.
Many manufacturers offer fiver hitches that work with the fifth wheel hitch "pucks" already in your bed. B&W is usually a highly recommend brand.

 

[BossHogg]

VIN states: Towing capacity is 14,080 lbs; Payload capacity is 3,014 lbs;

We want to upgrade to a 5th wheel toy hauler.

I have no idea what 5th wheel hitch to get.

You have all the answers, you simply need to find a 5th wheel that falls into the parameters. A 5th-wheel RV will put right around 20% of its wet weight on the tow vehicle. If you were to locate a 5th-wheel with a wet weight of 14,000 pounds, the weight put on your tow vehicle would be around 2,800 pounds. That would leave you with 214 pounds of additional cargo before you reached your payload, not much, the weight of the driver would likely cancel that.

I haven't been out looking at RVs since 2015 so I don't know if the RV industry has progressed with light 5th-wheels. Hopefully, they have. Safe money is finding a 5th-wheel with a GVWR that falls into your payload requirements. There is some room because not everyone loads their RV up to the maximum weight or travels with full gray/black or freshwater tanks.

As far as a hitch, I'd go with an auto-sliding hitch. Short-bed trucks and 5th-wheel RV caps like to collide regardless of how they advertise turning clearances. Ask me how I know, wait, I'll tell you. I've collided with my cab/cap not once but twice. Both times while maneuvering my RV into a camping site. There is so much to watch for while maneuvering no one thinks of the cap/cab clearance.

 

[Fake-Account27]

@BossHogg is on the money

If you go with the 20% tongue weight for a 5th wheel a 10k GVWR trailer will use up 2k of your payload. You can tow that all day every day without any issues.

Once you start going above that it will depend on how many people are in the truck, gear etc. A 12k gross 5th wheel would eat up 2400 lbs of your payload, leaving you 600 lbs for people. If it's just two of you that will be fine, if it's a family of 4 and may be a dog your going to be right up against your payload, and perhaps even over.

 

[dhay13]

Yep those numbers are from the door sticker. Also cross checked using VIN online and when to that VIN decoder website to get the same numbers showing up. My understanding is the gassers have more payload capacity than the diesels but obviously Diesels more hauling power via torque. Haven’t checked the curb weight of my truck. I think GCWR is around 21,400 or so. Online says my truck (forgot to mention 4WD) should weigh around 6,800 lbs.

I'd guess your truck is much heavier that 6800lbs. My 2018 2500 6.4 CC 6.4 bed is 100% stock except a soft tonneau cover and it weighs closer to 7500lbs with a full tank of fuel. Go to a CAT scale and get it weighed to know your starting point.
But I agree with above, under about 12,000lb TT GVWR you should be fine but more than that and you may want to consider a diesel

 

[stevenP]

First off toy haulers are always a lot heavier than standard fifth wheels. It might be tough finding a toy hauler with a GVWR that is that low. I have had 4 different fivers over the years. I recently down sized the RV, and my tow vehicle. I see yours is a gas version. If I lived someplace with mountains, which I really dont. The exhaust brake on the diesel is worth its weight in gold!
Fifth wheels hitches, everyone has descent stuff these days. It depends on what you want to spend. If your truck doesnt have fifth wheel prep, you need a rail kit to attach the hitch to the truck with. I have a short bed 2500, and contrary to popular knowledge, I did not need a slider type hitch which is a lot less money. Many of the newer fifth wheels these days have the 88 degree radiused front caps which give you more cab clearance, but your actual results may vary.

My fiver is GVWR 14000
Actual weight: 10k

 

[Irishthreeper]

For OP….I have a ‘21 2500 Hemi with 4.10’s. Tow limit is 17k and PL is 3061. I pull a 34’ 5W which is only 1250 hitchweight and fully loaded with a heavy slider hitch and other items I have about 2200 lbs in the bed. Attached is last years CAT scale. My slider is a Pullrite Superglide which is heavy but has come in handy during tight camp sites or u-turns. The truck only drops 1 1/2 inches loaded so haven’t needed airbags. A couple of points to consider….your PL sounds high for a Laramie so check your door info….the HD’s sit pretty high and tend to keep the 5W a bit nose high so look for a rig that has a pin box that can be raised (mine was 2” and it helped)…my rig is about 10,500 loaded and the truck handles it great but I’d probably limit myself to 12,500 or so….if your truck has the pucks for a 5W there are cheaper adapters but I bought the MOPAR one….
Just thought I’d pass on my own experiences, sorry to be so long with this. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

 

[MOT5Deep]

Having the short bed (6.4') you'll probably want to lean twords a slider. A slider allows the hitch to move backwards to allow more room when turning extremely tight as some trailers can hit the cab.
Many manufacturers offer fiver hitches that work with the fifth wheel hitch "pucks" already in your bed. B&W is usually a highly recommend brand.

Mucho gracias. When you say "move back," I presume you're talking about moving back towards the flat bed door?

 

[MOT5Deep]

First off toy haulers are always a lot heavier than standard fifth wheels. It might be tough finding a toy hauler with a GVWR that is that low. I have had 4 different fivers over the years. I recently down sized the RV, and my tow vehicle. I see yours is a gas version. If I lived someplace with mountains, which I really dont. The exhaust brake on the diesel is worth its weight in gold!
Fifth wheels hitches, everyone has descent stuff these days. It depends on what you want to spend. If your truck doesnt have fifth wheel prep, you need a rail kit to attach the hitch to the truck with. I have a short bed 2500, and contrary to popular knowledge, I did not need a slider type hitch which is a lot less money. Many of the newer fifth wheels these days have the 88 degree radiused front caps which give you more cab clearance, but your actual results may vary.

Your set up is pretty much I'm looking for. I'm beginning to think that my 5th wheel search dry weighted should max out at around 10,000 lbs before factoring in cargo and toys to be in the safe zone. Nice rig!

 

[mtofell]

With the numbers remember there are two different ones: What can you pull? (usually called "towing weight") and what can you carry? ("payload"). When you said your truck can tow 16,000# that's what it can pull. That would be 3200# of payload before a hitch, people or any gear so not going to work. Fwiw, payload is really the only number you need to worry about with 5th wheels and a 3/4 ton truck because you'll run out of that long before towing/pulling weight.

For some reference, I have the same truck and a 9,000# dry 5th wheel (+/- 11K loaded) and I'm right at (or even sometimes a bit over) my 10,000# GVWR. 2300# of tongue weight, slider hitch weighs 200# (I see many poster forgetting about the weight of the hitch..... they are heavy) and 500# of people and gear. Yeah, that payload disappears fast.

Towing over payload but under axle weights? Tons of reading and opinions about that. My RAWR is 6500# (2014 truck, I believe the newer ones are 6000#) and my tires combined are 7200#. With my setup my rear axle usually weighs around 5800# so I feel fine if I'm a couple pieces of firewood over GVWR.

Keep reading and learning.... good job doing it before buying the trailer. That's the critical error many others make.

 

[Lordac]

Long post but I'm kind of at a loss right now. Truck is a 2500 Laramie 6.4L V8 with standard/short box and 3.73 axle ratio. VIN states: Towing capacity is 14,080 lbs; Payload capacity is 3,014 lbs; GVWR is 10,000 lbs. Right now I'm towing a bumper pull 2012 Keystone Cougar 31SQB. TT is about 36 feet. Dry weight is 7,169 lbs and GVWR of 9,000 lbs. My truck tows it perfectly. I've towed uphill over Four Peaks Mountain, and the truck doesn't struggle. On level surface or small upgrades, it doesn't feel like I've got anything behind me.

We want to upgrade to a 5th wheel toy hauler. Intend to load a 4 seat RZR and/or quad and preferably needs some fold down bunks for kids. The debacle is I have no idea what is within the capacity of my truck. I've had everyone tell me I can only look at very light 5th wheels to I can handle a a dry weight 12,000 lb rig, fully loaded, and would be totally fine. So now I have no idea what in reality my truck is capable of handling safely or without beating the **** out of it. Any practical / real life advice or experience from guys towing something similar with the same capacity truck?

Side question: I have no idea what 5th wheel hitch to get. My truck is goose neck ready with the pucks. Started looking at hitches and am completely overwhelmed by choices. Some slide, some don't slide. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated as well.

You're not going to find many toy haulers that are light enough to to be pulled (legally) by your 2500. If you are keeping the truck then you'll be really limited to what you can get, and the biggest issue you'll have is the floor quality of the camper itself. Most ultra light campers save weight by using aluminum joists and walls, and that's all fine and dandy. The problem arises when you look at the materials they use for the actual flooring. Many campers use Luan, which is ****, and if it gets wet at all good bye floor. If you want a camper that will stand the test of time look for one that useless actually plywood or marine grade OSB. Your Jayco products use 5/8 plywood, and I believe Solitude and Momentum use 5/8 marine grade OSB. They aren't light and you can find a 5th wheel that your truck can tow but I don't think you'll find a toy hauler that will work.
If you trade the truck then only way to go is 3500 Cummins. 2500 has less tow capacity than the gasser you have now.

 

[Joe Merchak]

For OP….I have a ‘21 2500 Hemi with 4.10’s. Tow limit is 17k and PL is 3061. I pull a 34’ 5W which is only 1250 hitchweight and fully loaded with a heavy slider hitch and other items I have about 2200 lbs in the bed. Attached is last years CAT scale. My slider is a Pullrite Superglide which is heavy but has come in handy during tight camp sites or u-turns. The truck only drops 1 1/2 inches loaded so haven’t needed airbags. A couple of points to consider….your PL sounds high for a Laramie so check your door info….the HD’s sit pretty high and tend to keep the 5W a bit nose high so look for a rig that has a pin box that can be raised (mine was 2” and it helped)…my rig is about 10,500 loaded and the truck handles it great but I’d probably limit myself to 12,500 or so….if your truck has the pucks for a 5W there are cheaper adapters but I bought the MOPAR one….
Just thought I’d pass on my own experiences, sorry to be so long with this. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.View attachment 504336

My 2022 2500 Laramie crewcab 6.4L 4x4 with 4.10 has a payload of 3028LB per the sticker and a tow capacity of 14,160 pounds. Note to get the 17,540 tow capacity you need the Fifth-Wheel or Gooseneck Prep Package from the factory.

 

[Joe Merchak]

Long post but I'm kind of at a loss right now. Truck is a 2500 Laramie 6.4L V8 with standard/short box and 3.73 axle ratio. VIN states: Towing capacity is 14,080 lbs; Payload capacity is 3,014 lbs; GVWR is 10,000 lbs. Right now I'm towing a bumper pull 2012 Keystone Cougar 31SQB. TT is about 36 feet. Dry weight is 7,169 lbs and GVWR of 9,000 lbs. My truck tows it perfectly. I've towed uphill over Four Peaks Mountain, and the truck doesn't struggle. On level surface or small upgrades, it doesn't feel like I've got anything behind me.

We want to upgrade to a 5th wheel toy hauler. Intend to load a 4 seat RZR and/or quad and preferably needs some fold down bunks for kids. The debacle is I have no idea what is within the capacity of my truck. I've had everyone tell me I can only look at very light 5th wheels to I can handle a a dry weight 12,000 lb rig, fully loaded, and would be totally fine. So now I have no idea what in reality my truck is capable of handling safely or without beating the **** out of it. Any practical / real life advice or experience from guys towing something similar with the same capacity truck?

Side question: I have no idea what 5th wheel hitch to get. My truck is goose neck ready with the pucks. Started looking at hitches and am completely overwhelmed by choices. Some slide, some don't slide. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated as well.

OP

I went to the Hershey RV show this year and there a there are a number of toy haulers that Keystone makes that are about the same weight and length as your current trailer. They have in both standard pull and fifth wheel. Forest River makes a number of them too. Since the RZR is behind the axles that take weight off the pin/tongue. I would go look at ones that you like and see if you are still in spec of your truck or not. You may find you dont need a fifth wheel unit that works for you and all you need is to up your WDH to keep it standard pull.

 

[texcwa]

Back to the hitch. I have a 3500 short bed with OEM puck system and am using the B&W Patriot sliding hitch. I have not had to slide the hitch back yet after many trips.

There are now rotating pin boxes that eliminate the need for a slider on a short bed (google it and you will see what I mean). You may want to look into this type of pin box when looking at new RVs.

Although there are many debates on a 5th hitch v gooseneck, I find that hitching up to a 5th hitch is much easier plus you do not need safety chains. In addition, many manufacturers will void the warranty of 5th wheels if converted to a true gooseneck and I am still not a believer of the Anderson type hitches.

 

[Irishthreeper]

My 2022 2500 Laramie crewcab 6.4L 4x4 with 4.10 has a payload of 3028LB per the sticker and a tow capacity of 14,160 pounds. Note to get the 17,540 tow capacity you need the Fifth-Wheel or Gooseneck Prep Package from the factory.

I didn’t realize a Laramie could have that high a PL nor that my 5W prep boosted the tow capacity. Good info, thanks!

 

[MOT5Deep]

My 2022 2500 Laramie crewcab 6.4L 4x4 with 4.10 has a payload of 3028LB per the sticker and a tow capacity of 14,160 pounds. Note to get the 17,540 tow capacity you need the Fifth-Wheel or Gooseneck Prep Package from the factory.

Yep, I have goose neck prep
Package. Just ordered a B&W sliding hitch.

 

[tron67j]

It's all about payload. In a 1500 and often a 2500, we run out of payload long before we max on trailer/towing capacity.

You need to start with loading your truck with all the people, pets, gear, hitch (yes, include the 5th wheel hitch) cooler, you get the idea. And go weigh your truck with a full tank. Then subtract from the 10,000 and there is your remaining payload. Depending on those things, you may find your actual payload available is about 2,000 pounds (basing that on my average weight in my truck when traveling). This will get you about a 10,000 fully loaded 5th wheel at 20% pin weight. With a toy hauler, you are going to use about 2,500 pounds for your toys and gas, generator, etc. So you are looking for a dry weight trailer of about 7,500 pounds but make sure to account for food, water, etc.

That is just the way it is. Bags will not do anything but mask a problem. Nothing else will increase your numbers. Some say you can go as high as the rear axle weight rating, but staying within GVWR assures you run safe.

Good luck.