Ok to remove active shutters??

[corneileous]

Only you couldn't figure out what he was referring to. Maybe you should sit back somedays and let things pass,if you can't relate,like the rest of us can.Everybody else knew what he was referring to,except you,lol

And what exactly is it that you think I’m not relating to?? And who exacty is “he” that are you referring to that I highlighted in bold? All along, I was just simply referring to the post @MO RAM FAN made where he was supposedly talking about the AGS possibly being the cause for his truck overheating and spewing coolant everywhere without even mentioning the AGS anywhere in his post but you know, I guess I really am confused at this point.

 

[Wild one]

And what exactly is it that you think I’m not relating to?? And who exacty is “he” that are you referring to that I highlighted in bold? All along, I was just simply referring to the post @MO RAM FAN made where he was supposedly talking about the AGS possibly being the cause for his truck overheating and spewing coolant everywhere without even mentioning the AGS anywhere in his post but you know, I guess I really am confused at this point.

Yea you're definitely confused at times

 

[corneileous]

Yea you're definitely confused at times

Sometimes, but 9 times outta 10 times its when someone says something that doesn't make sense....

 

[MO RAM FAN]

Maybe I can shed some light on all of this. When my truck overheated, I was trying to think what initiated the sudden rise in the temperature. The temp went slowly from 215 to 217, and I really didn't think much about it. Then came 220 then 225 and jumped to 235 almost immediately. I pulled over as quickly as I could and shut the engine off. I opened the hood to let the wind which was from the south the direction I was headed, to cool things off. That's when I noticed the coolant in the engine compartment, down the outside of the truck, and on the trailer behind. My first thought were, the grill shutters, and the thermostat and even the electric fan, all of which tested ok at the dealership that it was towed to. They also pressure tested the whole system to 21psi and found no leaks. In hindsight, I really feel like probably the radiator cap had more pressure than it could handle and opened up and let all the coolant blow out.
Hope this clears up any misunderstandings. Still looking for ideas and thoughts on this. I've owned this truck for 2 years and really intend on keeping it for a long time. Thanks to all for your inputs and thoughts.

 

[zogg]

Great explanation…thanks

Can’t really determine the issue but if it was a bad radiator cap I would think the first thing is that the coolant would overfill the overflow tank. Did that happen??

 

[corneileous]

Maybe I can shed some light on all of this. When my truck overheated, I was trying to think what initiated the sudden rise in the temperature. The temp went slowly from 215 to 217, and I really didn't think much about it. Then came 220 then 225 and jumped to 235 almost immediately. I pulled over as quickly as I could and shut the engine off. I opened the hood to let the wind which was from the south the direction I was headed, to cool things off. That's when I noticed the coolant in the engine compartment, down the outside of the truck, and on the trailer behind. My first thought were, the grill shutters, and the thermostat and even the electric fan, all of which tested ok at the dealership that it was towed to. They also pressure tested the whole system to 21psi and found no leaks. In hindsight, I really feel like probably the radiator cap had more pressure than it could handle and opened up and let all the coolant blow out.
Hope this clears up any misunderstandings. Still looking for ideas and thoughts on this. I've owned this truck for 2 years and really intend on keeping it for a long time. Thanks to all for your inputs and thoughts.

Irregardless of the fact that you mention the concern of the AGS now instead of in your first post about this, I still think your issue would get much better attention if it had its own thread being that this one is just about whether or not to delete the AGS and not the problems it may cause so, what do I know, but since you insist on discussing it here, did you happen to notice if your shutters were open or closed when you pulled over and opened the hood to investigate the day your truck was overheating badly and spraying coolant everywhere? I don't know for a fact but I'm pretty sure the shutters are supposed to open around 225° so they should have been wide open if your temperature got that high and speaking of your electric fan, was it on? Overheating or not, if you had your A/C on, it should have been on anyways regardless of the engine's temperature.

I honestly don't know where the tube for the overflow tank comes out at but you couldn't tell where all the coolant was coming from? That's still awful weird though that the dealership the tow-truck took your truck to couldn't figure out that either. If it was all over your trailer and the side of your truck then it most definitely had to come from somewhere.

 

[ramffml]

Assuming your AGS is working as designed and doesn't have a mechanical problem; you do not need to remove AGS since the shutters will remain wide open once a certain temperature is reached.

So this is like removing the doors on your house when it gets hot out; you don't need to physically remove your doors to let in more air flow because they can be opened up and stay open for you; removing them does absolutely nothing to cool your house or truck any faster because they are already open.

 

[Dean2]

Assuming your AGS is working as designed and doesn't have a mechanical problem; you do not need to remove AGS since the shutters will remain wide open once a certain temperature is reached.

So this is like removing the doors on your house when it gets hot out; you don't need to physically remove your doors to let in more air flow because they can be opened up and stay open for you; removing them does absolutely nothing to cool your house or truck any faster because they are already open.

Spot on. If a guy really wants the truck to run cooler, adjust the temp the shutters open at, use a different thermostat. Removing the shutters themselves has never made sense to me. They do far more good than harm.

 

[theclassic]

Here is what I think the problem is with AGS.

I’ve been thinking about removing the active shutters. A couple concerns:
1-will it void the warranty??
2-do the temperatures stay more consistent? Mine swing by sometimes 25+ degrees and seems hot to me
3-I bought a kit to fool the computer to think they are still there but I’m second guessing the idea of removal.

This is only my opinion

1. Be on the safe side and assume it will void the warranty.

2. The temperatures will absolutely stay more consistent without the active grill shutters. 25° Is a big swing in temperature. Heat is what kills.

3. You can either install your kit or remove all of the shutters except the top and bottom ones. Whatever you do make sure you can return it to stock if any warranty issues arise.

I posted earlier in the thread documenting temperatures before and after removing all of the shutters except the top and bottom. It’s my understanding that the main reason for active grill shutters is aerodynamics and to help the engine warm up quicker. Hotter engines burn cleaner. Why are they there for aerodynamics? To get a gain of 0.1 mpg. Why are they there to help your engine warm up quicker? Because there is a race between car companies to get their vehicles to warm up the quickest, the quicker they can get your computer system operating in closed loop the sooner the engine will run at its “cleanest.” While your vehicle is warming up the computer is in open loop mode. This means all the emissions stuff is pre-determined and isn’t actually taking any data from the vehicles emission sensors. once your vehicle is warmed up it looks at all the emission sensors and fine tunes everything.

All this set aside there are two reasons I removed my shutters.

1. Large temperature fluctuations and high temperatures are not good for the motor, oil, transmission and trans oil.

2. Heat soak. Consider this, a truck without ags the engine coolant temperature is controlled only by the thermostat. If the engine coolant temperature rises above the thermostat setpoint the thermostat will partially open or fully open depending on the temperature. The “pre cooled” coolant moves from the radiator that is always been cooled by the air passing over it. The engine is receiving relatively cooler coolant whenever the thermostat opens. Now consider your truck that has Ags. Let’s say you’re driving down the highway. The engine coolant temperature is 210°. Your thermostat will be almost all the way open or completely open. But your AGS won’t open until it hits its preset temperature. Once the shutters open The coolant in the radiator and in the motor have to cooled down at the same time. If your truck doesn’t have shutters the coolant that is in the radiator will be much cooler “relatively“ and will cool your engine much more efficiently.

My advice do what you want….. and don’t spend too much time thinking about it. You will get a lot of difference answers from people who think they are right and everyone else is wrong.

 

[theclassic]

Assuming your AGS is working as designed and doesn't have a mechanical problem; you do not need to remove AGS since the shutters will remain wide open once a certain temperature is reached.

So this is like removing the doors on your house when it gets hot out; you don't need to physically remove your doors to let in more air flow because they can be opened up and stay open for you; removing them does absolutely nothing to cool your house or truck any faster because they are already open.

What is better for the truck? Engine coolant temperatures steady at 205° or engine coolant temperatures fluctuating from 194° to 220°

 

[ramffml]

What is better for the truck? Engine coolant temperatures steady at 205° or engine coolant temperatures fluctuating from 194° to 220°

The fluctuation isn't that high in my truck; I cycle from about 212 to 224 last I checked, and that can't possibly hurt an engine that normally sees a swing from -22 to 224 every time it gets driven in the dead of winter in the great white north.

There are other things that I would do way before removing AGS; like disabling MDS, running a properly specced oil, running an external oil cooler, adding a catch can etc. A cycle of a few degrees is nothing, and I doubt the engine stays 100% at one degree just because you removed the AGS. So really you may stop a bit of cycling but A) the cyling is kind of irrelevant compared to what it goes through during startup, towing etc, and B) you're not eliminating cycling completely either just by removing AGS.

 

[ramffml]

What is better for the truck? Engine coolant temperatures steady at 205° or engine coolant temperatures fluctuating from 194° to 220°

Also, although my coolant temps may swing a bit, my oil temp only moves very slightly. I'm sure it's a complete non-issue.

 

[Dusty]

In my above post I'm questioning if the grill shutters might have been part of my problem. I am asking that question right here. BTW, what controls the shutters: electrictal, mechinical, WHAT??

I spent most of the last 40 minutes trying to find an answer for you. There are many system descriptions in the DT service manual, but not for the Active Grill Shutters (there's one for the Active Air Dam).

Whoever has the DT Electrical Manual would be able to trace to the appropriate module that controls the AGS, but that may not help with a system description.

Sorry I couldn't help.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 065770 miles.

 

[Dusty]

Found the following under the U11E9 DTC:

Theory of Operation

The Active Grill Shutter (AGS) system is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) over a dedicated network Local Interconnect Network (LIN) bus. The Active Grill Shutters perform an initialization each time the vehicle is started. The initialization can be used as a quick way to validate the operation of the AGS. An AGS validation can be performed by starting the engine and observing the grill shutters. The shutters will cycle to the fully open position and then to the fully closed positions to initialize and learn the hard stops on the grill shutter frame for each key cycle. The grill shutter vanes can be commanded to the open or closed positions using the system test found under PCM in the scan tool.

If the AGS smart module detects the grill shutters are jammed, it will attempt to free them by cycling the shutters from the open to close positions 3 times. If this condition is detected when the ambient air temperature is greater than 40°F, the MIL will illuminate and a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) will set. If the ambient air temperature is below 40°F, and a jammed condition is detected, the smart module will assume the shutters are frozen and will not illuminate the MIL or set a DTC.

Monitored and Set Conditions

When Monitored: This diagnostic routine runs continuously when the following conditions are met:

With the engine running and battery voltage between 11.0 and 16.0 volts.

Ambient Air Temperature or Engine Coolant Temperature above 19.4°F.

DTC Set Conditions:

The PCM does not receive a valid LIN BUS message from the Active Grill Shutter Assembly for 2.6 seconds.

Default Actions:

MIL is illuminated on the second consecutive trip that the diagnostic fails.

If the AGS detects a LIN bus error it will default to open position.

NOTE: The Active Air Dam uses the same LIN circuit for fault detection.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 065773 miles.

 

[zogg]

Holy cow. What a great explanation!!! This should answer lots of questions for folks. Thank you!!!

 

[Dusty]

Holy cow. What a great explanation!!! This should answer lots of questions for folks. Thank you!!!

You're welcome.

As a side note, at the moment I can't find an actual spec. for the temperature range of the AGS. The cooling specification merely says the thermostat will begin to open at 190°F, and fully open at 212⁰F. You might make some assumptions, but one web source says they start to open at 203⁰F). I believe there's also a speed dependency as well, but not sure.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 065773 miles.

 

[zogg]

There sure is a heck of a lot of technology just to operate the shutters. After your eloquent explanation, I decided to leave mine alone….too many things could get goofed up. Thank you again

 

[Octane]

There sure is a heck of a lot of technology just to operate the shutters. After your eloquent explanation, I decided to leave mine alone….too many things could get goofed up. Thank you again

As long as the shutters perform as designed there shouldn't be an issue I would think.Or you can remove just a few of them maybe.

 

[Dusty]

There sure is a heck of a lot of technology just to operate the shutters. After your eloquent explanation, I decided to leave mine alone….too many things could get goofed up. Thank you again

If I remember correctly, you were worried about a +/-25 degree swing. I wouldn't worry about that unless you were seeing steady temps much over 218.

I installed a digital set of gauges in my '89 Chevy and I aways noticed a swing after the engine was completely warmed up and at highway speeds. Conventional automotive cooling systems do not regulate at a perfect fixed temperature.

Besides, I think there are benefits you'd be missing if you defeatured them.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 065807 miles.

 

[Colt4thHorseman]

Assuming your AGS is working as designed and doesn't have a mechanical problem; you do not need to remove AGS since the shutters will remain wide open once a certain temperature is reached.

Not true. AGS open when a temperature is reach and closes when the temperature is below a certain degree.
AGS do not remain open.
Mine opens at 220 and closes soon after. The temperature drops to 190 or so only because the the cooler radiator water enters the block and it’s takes a very short time for the thermostat to close.