Recommendation: timbren or bilstein

[ramffml]

I'd like to improve my truck handling while towing. I will not be going over 7000 pounds in my trailer. However sometimes my trailer is loaded but my truck is empty, and even with an excellent WDH I find the truck "squirmy" and "mushy" on rougher roads. If I load up the truck with cargo near capacity (firewood in the bed) then it seems to handle better. On the freeway it cruises great, but rough country roads it can start to buck and squirm pretty bad.

My question, would you all recommend installing timbrens or better shocks like some bilsteins? What I like about the timbren is that they leave your stock ride alone when unloaded. What I'm worried about with them, is that if I'm carrying a smaller load (smaller fishing boat), the timbrens might engage occasionally and cause a "hit" that you feel.

I have tried air bags but didn't like them. These were the cheaper ones where you stuff them in between the coils. I have also tried sumo springs and they didn't have more than 1/4 inch clearance causing a terrible ride unloaded.

I've read good things about bilsteins and I'm willing to try them, but I suspect they will cost more because I'd get a shop to install them where the timbrens I can do that myself.

I've already tried the WDH route. First had a husky centerline, it bobbed pretty bad. The Anderson I use now is a static force, so the only moving part now is the coils in my truck vs the centerline spring bars which also flexed in the past causing issues. Anderson is way better for my setup, but would like to dial it in even more.

Tires are 20 inch michelin defenders aired at about 42 psi. They may be part of the problem, but not willing to change those out quite yet as they are amazing when I'm not towing and have about half life left in them.

Any reports, good or bad, or other ideas I haven't thought of, please post them!

 

[zrock]

Stay away from the timbrens i had them and they are junk its just like riding on bumpstops when loaded i have also seen a few reports of frames breaking right behind these due to the hard hits and it transferring right to the frame. Shocks are not going to give you any load carrying capacity, if you get them valved for the load you are carrying then the rest of your rides are going to be harsh. I have run airbags both in coil and outside coil and have never had issues with them you have to play and adjust pressure for the load you are carrying for my travel trailer it took me a few trips to get them set. My setup i have a Bluetooth connection so i have my different setups saved, empty i air them down to 5lbs and you do not even know they are their. Same goes with your WDH it sounds like its not set up properly and its taking to much weight of the rear of your truck, they are not just a bolt on and go item and have to be setup properly. I just set up a used one i purchased and tool me about 3 tries and test drives to get it right, Just purchased a strait bar setup and i was able to get it set properly the first time just because it was close to the setup for the old system.

Also you truck tires and trailer tires need to be up to recommended air pressure that makes a huge difference

 

[18CrewDually]

^ Agreed. Specifically no Timbrens. You're issue is when the truck is unloaded but hitched up you say. I think you have too much weight transfer with that hitch and the you're unloading too much weight off the rear axle.
You should go to a scale house and weigh the truck to get axle weights. Then hook up the trailer the way you have been and reweigh to get axle weights again. You'll probably see you're transferring too much to the front axle and trailer axle.

 

[ramffml]

Stay away from the timbrens i had them and they are junk its just like riding on bumpstops when loaded i have also seen a few reports of frames breaking right behind these due to the hard hits and it transferring right to the frame. Shocks are not going to give you any load carrying capacity, if you get them valved for the load you are carrying then the rest of your rides are going to be harsh. I have run airbags both in coil and outside coil and have never had issues with them you have to play and adjust pressure for the load you are carrying for my travel trailer it took me a few trips to get them set. My setup i have a Bluetooth connection so i have my different setups saved, empty i air them down to 5lbs and you do not even know they are their. Same goes with your WDH it sounds like its not set up properly and its taking to much weight of the rear of your truck, they are not just a bolt on and go item and have to be setup properly. I just set up a used one i purchased and tool me about 3 tries and test drives to get it right, Just purchased a strait bar setup and i was able to get it set properly the first time just because it was close to the setup for the old system.

Also you truck tires and trailer tires need to be up to recommended air pressure that makes a huge difference

Well I definitely want to stay away from bent frames lol. Appreciate that warning.

For the shocks, I'm not looking to carry more load (less squat), just control the load better and my understanding is that better shocks can control porposing to some degree.

As for the WDH, my Anderson can be adjusted within 10 seconds for any load, just requires you to tighten or loosen the nut on the chain, can do it without disconnecting.

I've tried different settings, it seems to feel better the more I stiffen the hitch up.

My truck has 1750 pounds of payload (which is a lot for a 1500), if I'm just towing it around with just me as a driver and one or two tool boxes for cargo, the trailer still manages to put a squat on the back (I'd say "level" or just below level), so it's not like the truck looks the same loaded vs unloaded and transfering way too much off.

I should scale it again sometime, but visually the setup looks bang on. Trailer is level, truck has just enough squat.

I'm thinking my problem is more "truck too lightweight" and less "WDH used wrong". I suspect if I pulled with a 1/4 ton I'd have the issue, just not enough weight in the truck to counter balance the effect of the trailer. When I put wood in the bed it sinks more but handles better.

 

[2003F350]

I'm thinking my problem is more "truck too lightweight" and less "WDH used wrong". I suspect if I pulled with a 1/4 ton I'd have the issue, just not enough weight in the truck to counter balance the effect of the trailer. When I put wood in the bed it sinks more but handles better.

If adding weight to the bed of the truck makes it handle better, then you're taking too much weight off the truck with your WDH, and it's leading to all of your problems.

I had this issue when we first got our TT (700 lb advertised hitch weight) with my Wagon - it looked perfectly level front to back, but would 'porpoise' a lot and I couldn't drive over 65mph, and even then if another vehicle got too close when passing it would sway and I'd have to back out of it. Even filling the water tank didn't seem to help, if anything because it was a 'live load' it almost made things worse.

The next summer I tinkered with the hitch, adjusted the angle of the head to take some tension off the bars and put some weight back on the truck. First trip out I was running 65mph, rock solid with no sway whatsoever, even when being passed. A couple times I had to run it up to 70, but even then things didn't feel squirrely. It also got rid of a lot of the 'porpoising.' The truck didn't even look that much more out of level.

With the new truck and firmer suspension, things are even better.

I would suggest that you definitely need to try adjusting your WDH. I'll bet you'll find that it pulls better with just a bit more weight back on the truck. Stiffer shocks would probably help, but then you're risking your ride quality unloaded. If that isn't as important to you, then by all means go ahead and do so.

 

[zrock]

Well in theory you can adjust in 10 seconds but is that adjustment right? with out measuring things or getting your weights you do not know if your right on the money or not. That is part of the reason i went with a traditional WDH, with the Anderson style you do not get the exact same setting each time, off 1 turn of the nut can make a diffrence

 

[ramffml]

If adding weight to the bed of the truck makes it handle better, then you're taking too much weight off the truck with your WDH, and it's leading to all of your problems.

I had this issue when we first got our TT (700 lb advertised hitch weight) with my Wagon - it looked perfectly level front to back, but would 'porpoise' a lot and I couldn't drive over 65mph, and even then if another vehicle got too close when passing it would sway and I'd have to back out of it. Even filling the water tank didn't seem to help, if anything because it was a 'live load' it almost made things worse.

The next summer I tinkered with the hitch, adjusted the angle of the head to take some tension off the bars and put some weight back on the truck. First trip out I was running 65mph, rock solid with no sway whatsoever, even when being passed. A couple times I had to run it up to 70, but even then things didn't feel squirrely. It also got rid of a lot of the 'porpoising.' The truck didn't even look that much more out of level.

With the new truck and firmer suspension, things are even better.

I would suggest that you definitely need to try adjusting your WDH. I'll bet you'll find that it pulls better with just a bit more weight back on the truck. Stiffer shocks would probably help, but then you're risking your ride quality unloaded. If that isn't as important to you, then by all means go ahead and do so.

Appreciate the comments, I'll try backing it off a thread or two next time and report back. At this point I'm quite doubtful that it will help, but I'm willing to try and have my mind changed lol. With my truck pretty much empty but hauling the trailer with the Andersen, I can run 65 to 70 one-handed without any swaying issues. It's more the rougher country roads with tight corners and big "whoops" in the road, it feels quite squishy and squirmy in those scenarios with more bounce than I'd like. I was hoping better shocks would control the "rebound" better, as the truck suspension levels back up after hitting a dip, the shocks might control that better as it levels out.

Well in theory you can adjust in 10 seconds but is that adjustment right? with out measuring things or getting your weights you do not know if your right on the money or not. That is part of the reason i went with a traditional WDH, with the Anderson style you do not get the exact same setting each time, off 1 turn of the nut can make a diffrence

In practise its very easy to dial it in exactly every time. It's only 6 six threads to play with, it's quite easy to adjust, count the visible threads, and see where you end up. So if you know you need 5 and a half threads, you dial it in to 5, then use the marking on the side of the provided socket to know when you turn another half rotation. I could never go back to my husky; it's way heavier and harder on my back to move around, you end up with greasy bars lying about, it's noisy in the campground, takes longer to connect/disconnect, and performed worse than the Andersen does. It's also way more difficult to setup and adjust, the only real pro going for it above the Andersen is cost IMHO.

There are some guys saying the Andersen doesn't work as well for heavier loads. Can't speak to that, it's very well possible that something like the husky can end up applying more total leverage if you need a lot for a large heavy trailer. My trailer has a GVWR of about 7500 pounds, but it's a dual axle and only 23 feet and lately I've been running it quite light as well, I suspect its sitting closer to 6000 pounds.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

New shocks all around are going to help to start.
I say all around as you want a balanced ride with each corner ideally having the same brand and line of shock/strut so the rebound and dampening is accurate for better control and handling.

I would then look at either replacing your rear springs with a dual rate spring, and/or looking for an air bag set up you can adjust up and down as needed.

For me personally, I'd do the shocks/struts all around, keep all the stock springs on the four corners, and invest in a quality rear air bag set up.

 

[ramffml]

New shocks all around are going to help to start.
I say all around as you want a balanced ride with each corner ideally having the same brand and line of shock/strut so the rebound and dampening is accurate for better control and handling.

I would then look at either replacing your rear springs with a dual rate spring, and/or looking for an air bag set up you can adjust up and down as needed.

For me personally, I'd do the shocks/struts all around, keep all the stock springs on the four corners, and invest in a quality rear air bag set up.

I'm going to try the hitch adjustment first but if you have part numbers you can recommend I'm all ears. What are dual rate springs? The DT has progressive springs. I'd like to avoid air though as I tried the cheaper system already which didn't help, and I'm also worried about air systems in harsh/cold winters, nothing but problems it seems.

 

[2003F350]

New shocks all around are going to help to start.
I say all around as you want a balanced ride with each corner ideally having the same brand and line of shock/strut so the rebound and dampening is accurate for better control and handling.

I would then look at either replacing your rear springs with a dual rate spring, and/or looking for an air bag set up you can adjust up and down as needed.

For me personally, I'd do the shocks/struts all around, keep all the stock springs on the four corners, and invest in a quality rear air bag set up.

IIRC on his 2019, the springs are already a progressive rate spring. It's why they squat so much - they give a nice cushy ride unloaded, but can handle quite a bit of weight as they compress.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

https://bilsteincanada.com/

This is where I got my Bilstein B8 5100 Series front adjustable struts and rear shocks. Great service, great pricing, and quick delivery.

My fronts are set to 2.1" raised so I have some rake still, but more front level than stock set up. My springs are all stock, and so are my front UCA's.

You'll need your stock springs removed from the struts and mounted on these new ones, and set the height to where you'd like it.
Then an alignment afterwards.

If you go higher than 2.1" raised (max is 2.75") then you'll also want to invest in a new set of UCA's, would be my recommendation.

A dual rate spring will give you more spring in the rear when loaded so your truck doesn't squat too much. However, when unloaded it will give you a bit of a more harsh ride back there because of their stiffness vs. stock springs. https://www.suspensionlifts.com/what-is-a-dual-rate-coil-spring-and-how-does-it-work/

https://www.airliftcompany.com/
I don't disagree that air bags can have issues in winter/colder climates. However, purchasing quality equipment from the get go, and then observing a few additional winter maintenance things, you'll not have issues.

I've got a few friends that live in very cold Canadian winter climate zones that run Air Lift bags on their 1500's and 2500's for years now and have had no issues with freezing and/or related failures.

For me personally, I'd go Air Lift bags with Bilstein B8 5100's all around and keep the stock springs.

There are also other shock/strut options that are great as well, like Eibach or Rough Country.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

IIRC on his 2019, the springs are already a progressive rate spring. It's why they squat so much - they give a nice cushy ride unloaded, but can handle quite a bit of weight as they compress.

I haul and tow generators and my 19' squats quite a bit when I set a 1,000lb unit in the bed. It does the same when I'm towing bigger units on my tandem flat deck trailer. But I'm always under limits as I don't like to push it, or my luck either

I have much better feel and control now with the Bilstein's vs. the stock shocks/struts when I was driving loaded like this.

I kept the stock springs all around as I infrequently haul or tow. So some squat once in a while I can live with.

If I did it more then I would put the Air Lift bags in the rear and stop the squat.