Round 2 of My Lift Newb Questions - TIA

[Herb Tarlic]

Two weeks ago, bought a 2015 Ram BigHorn 4x4 CrewCab 3.6L Flex, and have been reading forums, etc.

Thought I had a decent grasp of geometry concerns, "complete lift packages" vs strut/shock/coil lifts vs spacers vs body lifts etc....and had settled in on ~2 inch lift all around via Bilsteins, TufTruck Rear Coils, and swapping out front UCAs for Mevotechs (a $150 UCA solution versus $500 options needed for "big lifts").

But as I read more, there seem to be other points that I need to address...

Round 2 Questions
- with a modest lift like a describe, are diff drop spacers unnecessary?
- are their complete front strut assemblies out there without the negative rep of Rough Country N3?
- TTC-1211 or TTC-1223 rear coils? VERY different stories about the lift and quality obtained from each.
- why does the Mopar lift kit include rear bump stop extensions? Does my "spec" need to include them?
- why does the Mopar lift kit include Rear SwayBar/Brake Line Brackets? Does my "spec" need them?

 

[DILLIGAF]

Diff drop brackets come with real lift kits. Most of the cheap kit are just crappy spacers. Stay away from that junk.

You either want Bilstein 6112 with Mevotech TTX UCA or a real 4" lift that come with spindles that correct the UCA issue.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Two weeks ago, bought a 2015 Ram BigHorn 4x4 CrewCab 3.6L Flex, and have been reading forums, etc.

Thought I had a decent grasp of geometry concerns, "complete lift packages" vs strut/shock/coil lifts vs spacers vs body lifts etc....and had settled in on ~2 inch lift all around via Bilsteins, TufTruck Rear Coils, and swapping out front UCAs for Mevotechs (a $150 UCA solution versus $500 options needed for "big lifts").

But as I read more, there seem to be other points that I need to address...

Round 2 Questions
- with a modest lift like a describe, are diff drop spacers unnecessary?
- are their complete front strut assemblies out there without the negative rep of Rough Country N3?
Rancho
- TTC-1211 or TTC-1223 rear coils? VERY different stories about the lift and quality obtained from each.
These are used to tow/haul more weight (normally a bilstein or icon rear spring is recommended)
- why does the Mopar lift kit include rear bump stop extensions? Does my "spec" need to include them?
All depends on height
- why does the Mopar lift kit include Rear SwayBar/Brake Line Brackets? Does my "spec" need them?
All depends on height

Reach out to @Nick@GotExhaust he has a few tried and true "packaged kits"

I would figure out your goal = Offroading, comfort, towing etc first then figure out a budget that you would like to be in. We can absolutely lay out a rock solid package that nick has already done the leg work on or there are plenty of great reads on this forum to educate yourself if that is what you would like to do before purchasing.
Added bonus Nick gives a forum member discount so you dont have to shop around

 

[CincyZach]

Reach out to @Nick@GotExhaust he has a few tried and true "packaged kits"

I would figure out your goal = Offroading, comfort, towing etc first then figure out a budget that you would like to be in. We can absolutely lay out a rock solid package that nick has already done the leg work on or there are plenty of great reads on this forum to educate yourself if that is what you would like to do before purchasing.
Added bonus Nick gives a forum member discount so you dont have to shop around

I got the Fabtech 6” lift from Nick, and I checked all over and no one could beat his price!

 

[ram1500rsm]

Two weeks ago, bought a 2015 Ram BigHorn 4x4 CrewCab 3.6L Flex, and have been reading forums, etc.

Thought I had a decent grasp of geometry concerns, "complete lift packages" vs strut/shock/coil lifts vs spacers vs body lifts etc....and had settled in on ~2 inch lift all around via Bilsteins, TufTruck Rear Coils, and swapping out front UCAs for Mevotechs (a $150 UCA solution versus $500 options needed for "big lifts").

But as I read more, there seem to be other points that I need to address...

Round 2 Questions
- with a modest lift like a describe, are diff drop spacers unnecessary?
No.

- are their complete front strut assemblies out there without the negative rep of Rough Country N3?
No. You also have Rancho QL struts as full assemblies . They Have about same negative rep.

- TTC-1211 or TTC-1223 rear coils? VERY different stories about the lift and quality obtained from each.
People think lift instead of spring rates combined with spring free length. How much weigth do I need to compress *** inches. 1211's carry more weigth but are shorter. 1223's are a little longer so you get a extra lift unloaded. Their design is not for looks. 1223 needs to have a 500/600lbs to keep your truck rear at stock heigth. Think springs rates if you have a work truck for example. Spacers are for *******. Lol


- why does the Mopar lift kit include rear bump stop extensions? Does my "spec" need to include them?
Because they want to prevent their coil springs from becoming solid or because they want to protect the shock at full bump. They use very long shocks compared to your stockers same with their springs.their springs are not design with weigth support in mind like TTC coils. SLF-140 coil springs are literally marshmallows

- why does the Mopar lift kit include Rear SwayBar/Brake Line Brackets? Does my "spec" need them?

Brake line brackets because the shocks included are a lot longer than stock so you need the brackets to relocate the rear brake lines.
Rear Sway bar? Didn't know they included a new rear sway bar. I don't think they do.
You don't need none of that.TTC springs are not long enough to warrant longer shocks that will need brake line extensions or extended bumpstops.

 

[Herb Tarlic]

Brake line brackets because the shocks included are a lot longer than stock so you need the brackets to relocate the rear brake lines.
Rear Sway bar? Didn't know they included a new rear sway bar. I don't think they do.
You don't need none of that.TTC springs are not long enough to warrant longer shocks that will need brake line extensions or extended bumpstops.

Thanks. I should have explained better. The specific Mopar kit I stumbled on was this:

https://www.allmoparparts.com/sku/p5155797.html

Before I found this I had been thinking about ordering front and rear Bilsteins, TufTruck coils for the rear, and Mevotech UCLs for the front.

When I saw this kit, I wondered if I need to relocate stabilizer bar and add extensions to brake lines and/or bumpstumps.

Their description says "Rear stabilizer bar location, brake hose length and suspension compression travel is addressed".

You mentioned TTC springs are not long enough to warrant longer shocks...but I was looking at Bilsteins and the Mopar kit includes Bilsteins, so I guess my question is how long is too long for the TTCs and too long to not need the extensions?

 

[Herb Tarlic]

Diff drop brackets come with real lift kits. Most of the cheap kit are just crappy spacers. Stay away from that junk.

You either want Bilstein 6112 with Mevotech TTX UCA or a real 4" lift that come with spindles that correct the UCA issue.

Thanks. I only want a 2" lift and levelling via shocks and coils and modest improvement to UCLs...I will avoid spacers or body lifts...and I'd like to budget between $1500 and $2000 for parts and labor, so I'm trying to understand if there are responsible ways to live within that budget...and now I'm fretting the small stuff like bump stock and brakeline extensions, having to move the stabilizer bar, etc.

Edit: bump stop not bump stock. make 1 small slip and you end up in an NSA database.

 

[ram1500rsm]

Thanks. I should have explained better. The specific Mopar kit I stumbled on was this:

https://www.allmoparparts.com/sku/p5155797.html

Before I found this I had been thinking about ordering front and rear Bilsteins, TufTruck coils for the rear, and Mevotech UCLs for the front.

When I saw this kit, I wondered if I need to relocate stabilizer bar and add extensions to brake lines and/or bumpstumps.

Their description says "Rear stabilizer bar location, brake hose length and suspension compression travel is addressed".

You mentioned TTC springs are not long enough to warrant longer shocks...but I was looking at Bilsteins and the Mopar kit includes Bilsteins, so I guess my question is how long is too long for the TTCs and too long to not need the extensions?

The Mopar kit is unique in its own way. You get super long coil springs and 29.5” extended rear shocks. Put those shocks in your factory coils and you’ll throw the coils out of their buckets the moment you try to extend the rear tires. TTC coils are actually shorter than stock so mixing those Mopar shocks with them will be even worst. Only one longer than stock 1/4 to 1/2” longer from TTC is the 1223VT. TTC coils are more work truck specific but I’d guess long time ago they were used to achieve lift. The problem is sure you get lift even with a shorter coil because of how stiff they’re compared to stock. It’s not a bad thing to have firmer springs as long as you have dampeners able to handle stiffer shocks.

You may need a TB relo bracket with 2 rear lift. Are you going that high in the back if your front is only 2” that will make your rear end very high.
With 2” front you might still have some rear rake. What’s your front/rear fenders measurements?

Typically people doing 2” front are leaving the rear stock or add 1 spacer or 1” rear coils. People doing 2.5” front will do 1 or 1.5 rear coils or spacers. Then they’re a few like us doing 2-2.5 rear coils because we have permanent weight in our truck beds but also need longer rear shocks. Similar approach to what Mopar do but our 2-2.5” coils have more spring rate than the SLF-140 coils you get with the Mopar kit.

so in summary, 2” from the Mopar kit is not the same as 2” from TTC 1223 coils for example. You still get xx amount of lift but how you do it will serve different functions. The mopar will drive better and be better for off-road, the TTC setup will allow to put more weight in your bed with less sag.

you can ask Nick to hook you up with something like Eibach kit complete with springs and struts and shocks and Zone ucas. Do this once so pay once and cry once. It’ll be a set it and forget it setup in the long run.

have fun.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Thanks. I only want a 2" lift and levelling via shocks and coils and modest improvement to UCLs...I will avoid spacers or body lifts...and I'd like to budget between $1500 and $2000 for parts and labor, so I'm trying to understand if there are responsible ways to live within that budget...and now I'm fretting the small stuff like bump stock and brakeline extensions, having to move the stabilizer bar, etc.

Edit: bump stop not bump stock. make 1 small slip and you end up in an NSA database.

You’re already in a database if you’re concerned with landing in one LOL

 

[Quick_Shifter]

@Herb Tarlic did you hit up @Nick@GotExhaust yet? I’ll be waiting to say you’re welcome after you do

 

[Herb Tarlic]

The Mopar kit is unique in its own way. You get super long coil springs and 29.5” extended rear shocks. Put those shocks in your factory coils and you’ll throw the coils out of their buckets the moment you try to extend the rear tires. TTC coils are actually shorter than stock so mixing those Mopar shocks with them will be even worst. Only one longer than stock 1/4 to 1/2” longer from TTC is the 1223VT. TTC coils are more work truck specific but I’d guess long time ago they were used to achieve lift. The problem is sure you get lift even with a shorter coil because of how stiff they’re compared to stock. It’s not a bad thing to have firmer springs as long as you have dampeners able to handle stiffer shocks.

You may need a TB relo bracket with 2 rear lift. Are you going that high in the back if your front is only 2” that will make your rear end very high.
With 2” front you might still have some rear rake. What’s your front/rear fenders measurements?

Typically people doing 2” front are leaving the rear stock or add 1 spacer or 1” rear coils. People doing 2.5” front will do 1 or 1.5 rear coils or spacers. Then they’re a few like us doing 2-2.5 rear coils because we have permanent weight in our truck beds but also need longer rear shocks. Similar approach to what Mopar do but our 2-2.5” coils have more spring rate than the SLF-140 coils you get with the Mopar kit.

so in summary, 2” from the Mopar kit is not the same as 2” from TTC 1223 coils for example. You still get xx amount of lift but how you do it will serve different functions. The mopar will drive better and be better for off-road, the TTC setup will allow to put more weight in your bed with less sag.

you can ask Nick to hook you up with something like Eibach kit complete with springs and struts and shocks and Zone ucas. Do this once so pay once and cry once. It’ll be a set it and forget it setup in the long run.

have fun.

What a great post; thanks so much.

Since this is a new truck for me, but has 100,000 miles, I thought in terms of replacing aged equipment with "modest upgrades" which translates to getting rid of most of the rake, but also replacing shocks all around and a minor improvement in load bearing capacity of the rear coils as I will do occasional towing and occasional light offroad. Based on your feedback, I may need to be looking for stock rear shocks and coils and just lift the front with 5100 HSAs at 1.4 or 2.1" and replace the front coils and UCAs with slightly better replacements.

Edit: I may have asked above, but I've also considered swapping out the front with aftermarket coil/shock assembly to save on installation labor, but I would have no idea what brand to trust.

 

[Herb Tarlic]

@Herb Tarlic did you hit up @Nick@GotExhaust yet? I’ll be waiting to say you’re welcome after you do

Oh I already wrote this down in my notes. Still in "learning mode". Thanks for the tip.

 

[Nick@GotExhaust]

Message me if you would like a quote on anything.

We have many different options we can go with here but what I think would suit you well is the Eibach Pro lift kit that includes front struts, rear shocks and coils for front and rear. Then the Zone UCA's. This will offer you front and rear lift while offering much better ride comfort and performance.

 

[Herb Tarlic]

Message me if you would like a quote on anything.

We have many different options we can go with here but what I think would suit you well is the Eibach Pro lift kit that includes front struts, rear shocks and coils for front and rear. Then the Zone UCA's. This will offer you front and rear lift while offering much better ride comfort and performance.

Hi Nick. Is it something like Eibach Pro Truck Lift Stage 3? I failed when trying to google a kit that has rear coils....

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Hi Nick. Is it something like Eibach Pro Truck Lift Stage 3? I failed when trying to google a kit that has rear coils....

yes eibach pro truck sells it in a kit. Bilstein also sells them individually. But the budget is going to be key. In your decision making and research. You can get a lot for the money but piecing certain items together makes a world of difference. Adding core 4x4 lower control arms and a hellwig swaybar makes a big difference (for example)

 

[Herb Tarlic]

Philosophical question...

If its ok to add Bilstein adjustables to the front without any other adjustments provided you keep the lift to 1.4 or 2.1" and under....because the lift is so small that you are not introducing geometry concerns....doesn't that also mean that that its ok to install any of the pre-assembled coilover struts that provide 2 inch lift unless you happen to think the other supplier's products are bad? (rough country, rancho, fox, etc).

Further, if a lift is less than 2 inches, what does it matter if the lift is provided by an above cap spacer (*) rather than by a longer shock and coil combo, if the net effect on geometry is the same?

* (I understand some suppliers try to put spacers below the strut cap which causes its own problems)

Obviously the coilover is going to provide better suspension performance >>> a spacer given a stronger shock and coil, but this is a geometry / side effects question not a performance question. Does the spacer solution provide inadequate damping because the original strut is now responsible for a lifted height? What exactly is the spacer failure mode in the case of relatively small lift?

Why am I asking? Because factoring labor to have the work done by a pro the levelling solutions (bilsteins and compress existing coils, pre-assembled coilovers, and above cap spacers) are....guestimating....$1000 versus $750 versus $500 solutions. I'm pretty cheap, so if all I'm trying to get is reduced rake, and the cheap option doesn't have negative side effects, well...you get the idea.

I admit the question comes from ignorance...curious to read the responses.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Philosophical question...

If its ok to add Bilstein adjustables to the front without any other adjustments provided you keep the lift to 1.4 or 2.1" and under....because the lift is so small that you are not introducing geometry concerns....doesn't that also mean that that its ok to install any of the pre-assembled coilover struts that provide 2 inch lift unless you happen to think the other supplier's products are bad? (rough country, rancho, fox, etc).

Further, if a lift is less than 2 inches, what does it matter if the lift is provided by an above cap spacer (*) rather than by a longer shock and coil combo, if the net effect on geometry is the same?

* (I understand some suppliers try to put spacers below the strut cap which causes its own problems)

Obviously the coilover is going to provide better suspension performance >>> a spacer given a stronger shock and coil, but this is a geometry / side effects question not a performance question. Does the spacer solution provide inadequate damping because the original strut is now responsible for a lifted height? What exactly is the spacer failure mode in the case of relatively small lift?

Why am I asking? Because factoring labor to have the work done by a pro the levelling solutions (bilsteins and compress existing coils, pre-assembled coilovers, and above cap spacers) are....guestimating....$1000 versus $750 versus $500 solutions. I'm pretty cheap, so if all I'm trying to get is reduced rake, and the cheap option doesn't have negative side effects, well...you get the idea.

I admit the question comes from ignorance...curious to read the responses.

Like I’ve said budget is key. The decision is how much you’re comfortable spending everything else is the equivalent to being in deep mud with highway tires

 

[Quick_Shifter]

@Herb Tarlic the going rate for Bilstein 5100’s installed with an alignment is $500-$600 for the fronts they are hands down the least expensive best bang for your buck. You can save $100 buy getting a spacer block but I can assure you that it will cost you money later on. And EVERYTHING is more expensive the second time you do it

 

[Herb Tarlic]

@Herb Tarlic the going rate for Bilstein 5100’s installed with an alignment is $500-$600 for the fronts they are hands down the least expensive best bang for your buck. You can save $100 buy getting a spacer block but I can assure you that it will cost you money later on. And EVERYTHING is more expensive the second time you do it

I'm confused by your numbers.

Two 5100 HSAs $260
Two Front Coils $300
Labor 6 hours $600
Total $1160

Two Rough Country (or alt supplier) Front Coilover Struts $300
Labor 4 hours $400
Total $700

OverStrut Spacers $100
Labor 3 hours $300
Total $400

With respect to paying more later, that's actually what I was asking about...if all three solutions net the same geometry, and all I'm trying to do is address rake, without expecting improved off-road or on-road performance (target = no degredation), then how is spending less bad?

 

[DILLIGAF]

Bilstein 6112, part #47-242548 is way better than the 5100s

RC is junk, and so are strut spacers.

cheeping out on front end parts will just cost you more down the road.