Round 2 of My Lift Newb Questions - TIA

[Herb Tarlic]

Bilstein 6112, part #47-242548 is way better than the 5100s

RC is junk, and so are strut spacers.

cheeping out on front end parts will just cost you more down the road.

6112 pair on shock surplus is $870. Add 4 hours for labor and you're at $1300.

The question about why alternatives are junk given that the central issue is geometry impact remains unanswered.

 

[Atcer2018]

I just went through what you are exploring with an almost identical truck. 2018 BigHorn Crew Cab 4X4 with the V6. Here is what I found. You are looking to level your truck and reduce the amount of rake from factory. Spacers are the cheapest route but I found many many posts about problems down the road so to speak. My vehicle is a pavement Princess but does see occasional off road when I go hiking a few times per month. Mostly rutted dirt roads, gravel roads, logging and access roads and the occasional large puddle. I went with the Bilstein 5100 kit front and back. Nick does have excellent prices but expect to pay about $450 for the front/rear setup. I elected to do my own install and it’s not that hard if you are mechanically inclined. Word of warning the factory top nuts on the struts are a ****** to get off! I even took one to a shop and the guy told me to just cut the nut off which I wound up doing but that ruins the strut mount plate so factor in new plates at about $40 each on Amazon. The rears are pretty easy and you will need a crowfoot wrench or a cut off box end to grab hold of the top mounting nut. As for the fronts I wanted no issues with the UCA’s or extreme CV angles so I went with the 1.4 setting. That was a mistake. I still had a very noticeable amount of rake at 1.4 but the ride was pretty near perfect with the 20 inch rims and stock Goodyear’s. I started out with almost 3 1/2 inches of rake and now I was down to about 2 1/4 and not satisfied with the visual appearance. I took it all apart and went to 2.1, BINGO that’s was perfect! I still have one inch of rake and the visual appearance was perfect for me. Looks level without a nose high attitude. No need for rear spacers. CV angles still looked good but I did elect to go with Mevotech UCAs as cheap insurance. The UCAs were about $110 for both on Amazon and easy to install. At 2.1 the ride was a bit stiffer and small road imperfections were more noticeable, not bad but noticeable. Big road imperfections were much smoother and almost confidence inspiring. I did this experimenting over a three week span so I was able to see the effects on MPG too. At 1.4 I actually got better gas mileage but the 2.1 dropped it about 1 MPG. Fast forward another week and I put new tires on it as the stock SRAs were about finished. I elected to go with an E load tire one size bigger at LT275/65R20. They filled out the wheel Wells nicely and being ATs give the appearance I was looking for. Now the downside. The 2 inch level along with E load tires really makes the V6 feel sluggish. While no speed demon to begin with the E loads are very noticeable on the Pentastar powered truck. The MPG took a big hit too if that influences you. The ride with a 2 inch Bilstein level and LT E load tires is much more truck like than the stock setup. It’s not a bad ride but you will notice the firmness if you elect to go the same route. The truck looks great but with the setup I went with it’s certainly all show and no go with the V6 power plant.

 

[Herb Tarlic]

I just went through what you are exploring with an almost identical truck. 2018 BigHorn Crew Cab 4X4 with the V6. Here is what I found. You are looking to level your truck and reduce the amount of rake from factory. Spacers are the cheapest route but I found many many posts about problems down the road so to speak. My vehicle is a pavement Princess but does see occasional off road when I go hiking a few times per month. Mostly rutted dirt roads, gravel roads, logging and access roads and the occasional large puddle. I went with the Bilstein 5100 kit front and back. Nick does have excellent prices but expect to pay about $450 for the front/rear setup. I elected to do my own install and it’s not that hard if you are mechanically inclined. Word of warning the factory top nuts on the struts are a ****** to get off! I even took one to a shop and the guy told me to just cut the nut off which I wound up doing but that ruins the strut mount plate so factor in new plates at about $40 each on Amazon. The rears are pretty easy and you will need a crowfoot wrench or a cut off box end to grab hold of the top mounting nut. As for the fronts I wanted no issues with the UCA’s or extreme CV angles so I went with the 1.4 setting. That was a mistake. I still had a very noticeable amount of rake at 1.4 but the ride was pretty near perfect with the 20 inch rims and stock Goodyear’s. I started out with almost 3 1/2 inches of rake and now I was down to about 2 1/4 and not satisfied with the visual appearance. I took it all apart and went to 2.1, BINGO that’s was perfect! I still have one inch of rake and the visual appearance was perfect for me. Looks level without a nose high attitude. No need for rear spacers. CV angles still looked good but I did elect to go with Mevotech UCAs as cheap insurance. The UCAs were about $110 for both on Amazon and easy to install. At 2.1 the ride was a bit stiffer and small road imperfections were more noticeable, not bad but noticeable. Big road imperfections were much smoother and almost confidence inspiring. I did this experimenting over a three week span so I was able to see the effects on MPG too. At 1.4 I actually got better gas mileage but the 2.1 dropped it about 1 MPG. Fast forward another week and I put new tires on it as the stock SRAs were about finished. I elected to go with an E load tire one size bigger at LT275/65R20. They filled out the wheel Wells nicely and being ATs give the appearance I was looking for. Now the downside. The 2 inch level along with E load tires really makes the V6 feel sluggish. While no speed demon to begin with the E loads are very noticeable on the Pentastar powered truck. The MPG took a big hit too if that influences you. The ride with a 2 inch Bilstein level and LT E load tires is much more truck like than the stock setup. It’s not a bad ride but you will notice the firmness if you elect to go the same route. The truck looks great but with the setup I went with it’s certainly all show and no go with the V6 power plant.

I appreciate your sharing and read it with interest. I'm glad you landed on the setup you wanted, and I think trading a little stiffness and mpg loss on well-maintained asphalt for better handling over big bumps and backroads is worth it.

I'm still left with a couple fundamental issues though....

Like you, I've read about issues with spacers...but the issues appear to be restricted to lifts > 2" and/or usage of spacers below the strut top plate. I'd like someone to explain why its ok to achieve lift with longer shocks but not ok to achieve the lift with longer shocks in a pre-assembled strut or with a spacer on top of the strut assembly. All 3 a functioning in the same way from a geometry perspective.

I'm not particularly mechanically inclined, but I would have no concerns with installing pre-assembled struts or spacers. I don't want to install new shocks and re-use front coils myself as I don't want to be anywhere near the required spring compressor usage (personal choice / insert jokes about manhood here).

In a nutshell I don't want to drop $1500 on parts and labor if spending $200-400 will get the job done. Replies like "the exact reason(s) why you will have reliability issues down the road with pre-assembled struts or spacers are X and Y and Z" are preferred over "somebody said some time ago that you will have some problems at some future time"

 

[Atcer2018]

I appreciate your sharing and read it with interest. I'm glad you landed on the setup you wanted, and I think trading a little stiffness and mpg loss on well-maintained asphalt for better handling over big bumps and backroads is worth it.

I'm still left with a couple fundamental issues though....

Like you, I've read about issues with spacers...but the issues appear to be restricted to lifts > 2" and/or usage of spacers below the strut top plate. I'd like someone to explain why its ok to achieve lift with longer shocks but not ok to achieve the lift with longer shocks in a pre-assembled strut or with a spacer on top of the strut assembly. All 3 a functioning in the same way from a geometry perspective.

I'm not particularly mechanically inclined, but I would have no concerns with installing pre-assembled struts or spacers. I don't want to install new shocks and re-use front coils myself as I don't want to be anywhere near the required spring compressor usage (personal choice / insert jokes about manhood here).

In a nutshell I don't want to drop $1500 on parts and labor if spending $200-400 will get the job done. Replies like "the exact reason(s) why you will have reliability issues down the road with pre-assembled struts or spacers are X and Y and Z" are preferred over "somebody said some time ago that you will have some problems at some future time"

I’m no expert and this is my understanding so someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
Spacers above the strut plate-worst option because the spacer moves the entire geometry down the specified distance of the spacer. This limits the up/down movement of the shock from its original range of motion. Specifically when the tire moves upward the shock is unable to move upward as far as intended because it has been lowered X amount of inches by the spacer. These spacers are known to squeak and grind because they are between the mounting bracket and strut plate.
Spacers below the strut plate-slightly better option but requires the strut to be disassembled to install. Also pre extends the shock portion X amount of inches to compensate for the increased height of the coil limiting the intended range of motion of the shock itself.
Bilstein 5100 or others like them including the pre assembled Ranchero and Eibach units-these are considered best because they pre load the coil spring to lift the vehicle. The coil seats are raised not the strut being physically lowered or the coil being artificially extended. This allows the shock portion to move through its intended range of motion. All three have a similar effect on the UCA and ball joint along with the sway bar bushings. Which one is more egregious concerning the remaining stock geometry is not within my scope of knowledge. My level setup cost me about $625 for everything but that was doing the install myself. I don’t include an alignment because new tires required that anyway so figure about $700 if you’re keeping the current tires.

 

[Herb Tarlic]

I’m no expert and this is my understanding so someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
Spacers above the strut plate-worst option because the spacer moves the entire geometry down the specified distance of the spacer. This limits the up/down movement of the shock from its original range of motion. Specifically when the tire moves upward the shock is unable to move upward as far as intended because it has been lowered X amount of inches by the spacer. These spacers are known to squeak and grind because they are between the mounting bracket and strut plate.
Spacers below the strut plate-slightly better option but requires the strut to be disassembled to install. Also pre extends the shock portion X amount of inches to compensate for the increased height of the coil limiting the intended range of motion of the shock itself.
Bilstein 5100 or others like them including the pre assembled Ranchero and Eibach units-these are considered best because they pre load the coil spring to lift the vehicle. The coil seats are raised not the strut being physically lowered or the coil being artificially extended. This allows the shock portion to move through its intended range of motion. All three have a similar effect on the UCA and ball joint along with the sway bar bushings. Which one is more egregious concerning the remaining stock geometry is not within my scope of knowledge. My level setup cost me about $625 for everything but that was doing the install myself. I don’t include an alignment because new tires required that anyway so figure about $700 if you’re keeping the current tires.

Thanks for that. Having watched enough videos now I can say I'm off the spacer train.

I think I'll manage my budget restrictions by limiting my first effort to front shocks and coils.

 

[Atcer2018]

Thanks for that. Having watched enough videos now I can say I'm off the spacer train.

I think I'll manage my budget restrictions by limiting my first effort to front shocks and coils.

That’s the point I got to with spacers. The 5100’s are a nice quality setup but I understand there are nicer and more expensive options. The stock coils are not bad and seem to work well with the Bilsteins. I have seen people suggest here that you can save money by removing the struts yourself and taking them to a shop for removal of old and replacement of new for a nominal fee which may be less expensive than going with a preassembled unit. I wish you the best and if you have any questions feel free to contact me.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

I appreciate your sharing and read it with interest. I'm glad you landed on the setup you wanted, and I think trading a little stiffness and mpg loss on well-maintained asphalt for better handling over big bumps and backroads is worth it.

I'm still left with a couple fundamental issues though....

Like you, I've read about issues with spacers...but the issues appear to be restricted to lifts > 2" and/or usage of spacers below the strut top plate. I'd like someone to explain why its ok to achieve lift with longer shocks but not ok to achieve the lift with longer shocks in a pre-assembled strut or with a spacer on top of the strut assembly. All 3 a functioning in the same way from a geometry perspective.

I'm not particularly mechanically inclined, but I would have no concerns with installing pre-assembled struts or spacers. I don't want to install new shocks and re-use front coils myself as I don't want to be anywhere near the required spring compressor usage (personal choice / insert jokes about manhood here).

In a nutshell I don't want to drop $1500 on parts and labor if spending $200-400 will get the job done. Replies like "the exact reason(s) why you will have reliability issues down the road with pre-assembled struts or spacers are X and Y and Z" are preferred over "somebody said some time ago that you will have some problems at some future time"

I don’t think anyone has knocked pre assembled leveling struts. So that may be part of your confusion. Rancho and rough country are the 2 options which both cost more than bilsteins and install is the same process. Ie very similar installation pricing. If they want more find another shop.
That being said bilsteins are the best bang for the buck hands down no question.

 

[Herb Tarlic]

I don’t think anyone has knocked pre assembled leveling struts. So that may be part of your confusion. Rancho and rough country are the 2 options which both cost more than bilsteins and install is the same process. Ie very similar installation pricing. If they want more find another shop.
That being said bilsteins are the best bang for the buck hands down no question.

Sorry if I'm being slow, but are you saying I should be able to get pre-assembled Bilsteins for less than pre-assembled Ranchos or Rough Country's? I'm not seeing that...

 

[ram1500rsm]

There are multiple ways to achieve 2" in height for example, but 2" lifted with top spacers is not the same as 2" when you did so via lifting struts. 2-3" top spacers are extending your assemblies 2-3" down overextending your factory CV axels, tie rods, ucas etc. This is part of the reasons you'll be looking for trouble with top spacers. 1/2" top spacers are ok.

Lifting struts do use spring preload to achieve lift. Some of them strut length assemblies mimic the stock length, and others are extended travel (1" longer the factory). the extended travel are still not extending your components in the same way 2-3" top spacers will.

Personally I run a full King 2.5 CO/Shock set front and back valved and tuned for my truck mods with Icon Delta Joint, full Clayton rear control arms,Clayton trackbar and Clayton coil springs etc. I run what some might call the expensive stuff in my truck, and i have ZERO issues telling people to run Rancho or RC quick lift struts and I prefer them over the disassembly of the factory units and having to port springs, top mounts etc over new unassembled struts. 5100 or Eibach or Procomp struts unassembled are cheaper cause you're only paying for strut only. If they offered a version fully assembled the prices will go up a little more. I prefer the simplicity of fully assembled units so that's why i went Rancho myself. I did Rancho QL 9000 XL struts in the front and Rancho 9000 XL shocks in the back (longer version found in the older 2500's just cause i know how to mix and match and i had longer springs to support them ) I ran those for 12k miles and they were set it and forget it. Zero issues and nice/decent street ride. I still have them in my garage for what i wanted them which was to eventually have a backup set of shocks to get me back in the road when my primary suspension is getting serviced and i'll switch them when needed. I do my own suspension wrenching so for me a dampener or a coil spring or control arm is changed or refreshed when i want/need and i get to choose what i run myself.

If you have to ask around you might go crazy at times because we all tend to tell you what we run and what we hate whether we personally run it, or have ran it or not. it's a crazy thing hahahaha. Some really take the concept of hating a product with passion towards Rancho RC or Procomp. wait for it, or simply read other threads and you'll see who. they're always the same people. Damn it it gets on my nerves somebody might even say "i haven't have a single damn issue with (insert Rancho, RC or Procomp)" and somebody will come say "that you aware off yet" hahahaha. Just wait, they can't help themselves....

 

[BriamH]

6112 pair on shock surplus is $870. Add 4 hours for labor and you're at $1300.

The question about why alternatives are junk given that the central issue is geometry impact remains unanswered.

4 hours of labor seems excessive for a shop. I did all 4 5100's (including compressing the stock springs) in my back yard in 4 hrs., with BS'ing and a few beers.
Also, I have the 355 gears and KO2's, and I didn't notice much change in throttle response with the V6.

 

[Herb Tarlic]

4 hours of labor seems excessive for a shop. I did all 4 5100's (including compressing the stock springs) in my back yard in 4 hrs., with BS'ing and a few beers.
Also, I have the 355 gears and KO2's, and I didn't notice much change in throttle response with the V6.

Thanks. Yes, the 4 hour guesstimate I included was based on what I think I would likely be charged by a shop versus how long it would actually take them.

 

[Herb Tarlic]

There are multiple ways to achieve 2" in height for example, but 2" lifted with top spacers is not the same as 2" when you did so via lifting struts. 2-3" top spacers are extending your assemblies 2-3" down overextending your factory CV axels, tie rods, ucas etc. This is part of the reasons you'll be looking for trouble with top spacers. 1/2" top spacers are ok.

Lifting struts do use spring preload to achieve lift. Some of them strut length assemblies mimic the stock length, and others are extended travel (1" longer the factory). the extended travel are still not extending your components in the same way 2-3" top spacers will.

Personally I run a full King 2.5 CO/Shock set front and back valved and tuned for my truck mods with Icon Delta Joint, full Clayton rear control arms,Clayton trackbar and Clayton coil springs etc. I run what some might call the expensive stuff in my truck, and i have ZERO issues telling people to run Rancho or RC quick lift struts and I prefer them over the disassembly of the factory units and having to port springs, top mounts etc over new unassembled struts. 5100 or Eibach or Procomp struts unassembled are cheaper cause you're only paying for strut only. If they offered a version fully assembled the prices will go up a little more. I prefer the simplicity of fully assembled units so that's why i went Rancho myself. I did Rancho QL 9000 XL struts in the front and Rancho 9000 XL shocks in the back (longer version found in the older 2500's just cause i know how to mix and match and i had longer springs to support them ) I ran those for 12k miles and they were set it and forget it. Zero issues and nice/decent street ride. I still have them in my garage for what i wanted them which was to eventually have a backup set of shocks to get me back in the road when my primary suspension is getting serviced and i'll switch them when needed. I do my own suspension wrenching so for me a dampener or a coil spring or control arm is changed or refreshed when i want/need and i get to choose what i run myself.

If you have to ask around you might go crazy at times because we all tend to tell you what we run and what we hate whether we personally run it, or have ran it or not. it's a crazy thing hahahaha. Some really take the concept of hating a product with passion towards Rancho RC or Procomp. wait for it, or simply read other threads and you'll see who. they're always the same people. Damn it it gets on my nerves somebody might even say "i haven't have a single damn issue with (insert Rancho, RC or Procomp)" and somebody will come say "that you aware off yet" hahahaha. Just wait, they can't help themselves....

Thanks very much. Very informative post, and it confirmed some thoughts I had about the trouble with relying on anecdotal information from the innerwebs...people love to share opinions.