transfercase diagram

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Brandon-w

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Good info, thanks!

One last question.... Do you know if your front driveshaft spins at all times, even in 2wd? Mine does but again "should it" is a bone of contention. Trying to determine if maybe my xfer case or front diff/axles might have issues

Thanks.

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I'll get back to you on this just want to do some testing before I give you an answer. I'll see if I can upload a video of it in 2wd and in 4x4. Just a side note truck in park I can spin my front driveshaft by hand. From mechanical experience anything with gears will still spin even if not engaged as the stiction from the oil will always have a bit of a hold on the gears and allow them to freewheel in a sense. I'll give you some difinitive answers today though I hope
 

Brandon-w

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So here's the diagram of my thoughts. Sorry I didn't have anything but a carpentry pencil so it made my terrible writing worse. Here's the diagram.
 
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chrisbh17

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I'll get back to you on this just want to do some testing before I give you an answer. I'll see if I can upload a video of it in 2wd and in 4x4. Just a side note truck in park I can spin my front driveshaft by hand. From mechanical experience anything with gears will still spin even if not engaged as the stiction from the oil will always have a bit of a hold on the gears and allow them to freewheel in a sense. I'll give you some difinitive answers today though I hope

Thanks!

And yeah, Ive heard that explanation too. And have verified myself the driveshaft on my truck spins in 2WD and 4WD-Auto, Im just not sure its correct. people with experience with the RAM drivetrain have said it should not spin unless 4WD is activated and the rears are slipping.

If I park the truck in 2WD, I can spin the front driveshaft myself. If I activate 4WD, I can no longer spin the front driveshaft.

I think the left side of the front diff (which is always "connected") kind of backfeeds into the front driveshaft and causes it to spin. But many people have said this should NOT happen, unless something is too tight (spider gears, etc).

The whole reason I ask is because I get the steering wheel/gas pedal/floorboard "buzz" type vibration and it gets worse when the truck is in 4-Auto....seeing as how 4-Auto (technically) doesnt do anything other than engage the axle actuator, Im curious as to why a buzzing vibration would get worse when the axles are linked up.
 

LouM

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Just from sitting in my driveway on pure ice and in ruts I'm going to say even in 4lock you are getting zero transfer at all. I can have the tires spinning in gear and front tires have no torque to them whatsoever backs are locked and turning in unison. I don't seem to get any front wheel assist of any sort until 10-15% throttle. I do alot of deep snow driving (Usually over a foot) and I sometimes when I get rammy with the throttle I can actually feel it hook up and sometimes it'll pull the steering wheel. So the answer to your question this is my honest opinion is no the transfer case isn't putting anything to the wheels at low speeds, my voltage reading on the transfer case clutch packs also comfirms that at zero volts while idling in drive so they're not engaging. Almost any other truck with wheels turned full left or right will give you a feed back that you have torque transfer, these trucks give you nothing. Essentially it's a glorified awd setup only gives you torque when demanded.
Pretty $hitty system if you ask me. I miss the days of a t case shift lever and a light in the dash that only worked half the time lol!


I like all the work you are trying on our transfer cases.
That said I'm afraid you may be ******* into a hurricane with what you are trying.

From what I have gathered over the the last few years and from what I have observed.

1) the programing to the BCM for the transfer case is dismal.
a) when in lock mode the computer sends power to the clutch when the rear wheels slip
b) when in auto mode the computer sends power to the clutch when it detects rear wheel slippage
1) not much difference

2) when the transmission is in neutral or park the clutch is disengaged regardless of the transfer case mode
a) park on a slippery icy hill, leave it in 4 hi or lo release the brake and start sliding backwards in 2wd

3) when going downhill on ice in lo4 and first gear the rear will slowly turn and start sliding the fronts will not hold back

4) reguardless of the 4wd mode selected you will almost never feel any front wheel bind or pull

5) in any and all 4wd modes the rear tires have to slip to engage the fronts, it is my understanding fromreading and viewing various parts breakdowns that there is a ball and cam at the input to the electric clutch, the cam is on the clutch and the ball is powered by the rear shaft.
When the rears exceed the speed of the front when in 4wd the ball is forced into the cam ramp by the torque applied to the rear wheels which in turn tightens the clutch pack to pass the torque thru to the front.
That is why in low traction, low throttle situations the front end will not pull or just kind of shudder.
Without sufficient traction for the rear wheels to develop any torque the ball is not clamping the clutch pack together, which results in slipping of the clutch and shuddering in the front axle.

6) what I haven't tried yet when I'm in a low traction situtation and the front is not pulling is to gently apply the emergency brake to try and give the rear a false traction and torque to engage the ball and cam for the front axle. This years mild winter has not gotten me in a situation of being in a very low traction situation and not getting 4wd and having to walk, which so far has happened at least once a year with this fancy RAM and its almost worthless transfer case.

7) with that said there are a few times when I like this transfer case, when I'm pulling loads out of a hay or corn field or even an empty wagon into a field it works good because I have some what decent rear traction which enables the same from the front axle.

8) to sum it up I do not believe that the electrical activation of the clutch pack can handle any more then a minuscule amount of torque
without the assist from the rear.
It is a shame because it has the potential to be an excellent transfer case, in my opinion it is built backwards it should have a spring pack to keep it firmly engaged untill electrically/hydraulically disengaged.

Lou
 

LouM

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Thanks!

And yeah, Ive heard that explanation too. And have verified myself the driveshaft on my truck spins in 2WD and 4WD-Auto, Im just not sure its correct. people with experience with the RAM drivetrain have said it should not spin unless 4WD is activated and the rears are slipping.

If I park the truck in 2WD, I can spin the front driveshaft myself. If I activate 4WD, I can no longer spin the front driveshaft.

I think the left side of the front diff (which is always "connected") kind of backfeeds into the front driveshaft and causes it to spin. But many people have said this should NOT happen, unless something is too tight (spider gears, etc).

The whole reason I ask is because I get the steering wheel/gas pedal/floorboard "buzz" type vibration and it gets worse when the truck is in 4-Auto....seeing as how 4-Auto (technically) doesnt do anything other than engage the axle actuator, Im curious as to why a buzzing vibration would get worse when the axles are linked up.


I believe that the internal front axle disconnect is engaged any time that a 4wd mode is selected.
If you are getting vibration that increases in auto 4wd I would look at my axle bearings/wheel hubs and possibly the front axle ujoints or drive shaft ujoints in that order.

Lou
 

LouM

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Brandon,
your electrical looks good for what you are trying to accomplish.

Lou
 

Brandon-w

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I believe that the internal front axle disconnect is engaged any time that a 4wd mode is selected.
If you are getting vibration that increases in auto 4wd I would look at my axle bearings/wheel hubs and possibly the front axle ujoints or drive shaft ujoints in that order.

Lou
You are correct the front axle Disconnect is activated when 4x4 is selected.
 

chrisbh17

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I believe that the internal front axle disconnect is engaged any time that a 4wd mode is selected.
If you are getting vibration that increases in auto 4wd I would look at my axle bearings/wheel hubs and possibly the front axle ujoints or drive shaft ujoints in that order.

Lou

Exactly my thinking.

Ive removed the front driveshaft and driven the truck...vibration still there. I figured and axle/hub issue would be more of a "moving in the steering wheel" vibration, not just a buzzing. It also seems to only happen under acceleration and at a set RPM range. Maybe mounts? But that doesnt explain why it gets worse with just the axle disconnect engaged.
 

Hemi395

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If you get this to work, you could make some money selling those harnesses….
 

Brandon-w

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What rpm does it do it? Like when the torque converter is locked up?
 

chrisbh17

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What rpm does it do it? Like when the torque converter is locked up?

2000-2300. Im not sure when the TC is locked because the 8HP allows it to be locked in any gear. Ive tried datalogging torque converter status data but I havent found a datapoint that actually shows if its locked or not.
 

chrisbh17

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It's Working so far. No service 4x4 lights yet!!

So you are essentially able to lock the truck in 4WD, none of the bs about "ramping" or waiting for the rears to slip?
 

Brandon-w

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So you are essentially able to lock the truck in 4WD, none of the bs about "ramping" or waiting for the rears to slip?
Precisely. Lou was in fact right about the ball and cam when I have the clutch packs locked up I can feel it lock hard from. Foreward to reverse or vise versa but she is locked up. Difference isn't huge but it is definately noticeable and it turns the front right away none of this wait for it garbage. I'll do some more testing on this. I definateky would not reccomend driving around like this all The Time as they are just clutches. If you're like me you like to see how far you can go and it's usually too far then 4x4 goes gimp lol
 

chrisbh17

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Precisely. Lou was in fact right about the ball and cam when I have the clutch packs locked up I can feel it lock hard from. Foreward to reverse or vise versa but she is locked up. Difference isn't huge but it is definately noticeable and it turns the front right away none of this wait for it garbage. I'll do some more testing on this. I definateky would not reccomend driving around like this all The Time as they are just clutches. If you're like me you like to see how far you can go and it's usually too far then 4x4 goes gimp lol

Some people say the reason the clutches die prematurely is BECAUSE of the way the rears have to spin for the fronts to engage.

You will get in a spot where the rears "toggle" between traction and no traction, which applies and releases the clutches over and over again, causing them to heat up and eventually burn.

So, technically, keeping them locked on might not be as bad for them as we think.

I like your solution because (once I buy a harness from you ;0 ) it will be plug and play. I would love to convert to a 44-45 or even install the Rockland conversion kit for the 44-44, but I have that pesky MaxCare Lifetime warranty.
 

Brandon-w

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Some people say the reason the clutches die prematurely is BECAUSE of the way the rears have to spin for the fronts to engage.

You will get in a spot where the rears "toggle" between traction and no traction, which applies and releases the clutches over and over again, causing them to heat up and eventually burn.

So, technically, keeping them locked on might not be as bad for them as we think.

I like your solution because (once I buy a harness from you ;0 ) it will be plug and play. I would love to convert to a 44-45 or even install the Rockland conversion kit for the 44-44, but I have that pesky MaxCare Lifetime warranty.

I was thinking I need to find the stock doge connectors or ones that will fit and make this a direct mod no cutting splicing or anything needed and no footprint of it ever being there. It'd just be a mount switch pick up power and ground and done. ;)
 

Brandon-w

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So it's 100% in now everything wired I'll let you guys know if I have any issues rite now but as it sits it seems like it's going to work!! It does seem to dig Alittle better, my tires have had better days though so it would do better for someone with winter tires. Super happy this turned out!!!

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Hemi395

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Electrical isn't my strong point, so essentially by hitting that toggle switch its forcing the clutches to engage and giving you constant front driveshaft engagement? Am I understanding this right?
 
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