Upgrading to a 6.7, but which?

[Synolimit]

My take on this is to get a 3500 cummins HO or SO. Leave it stock. If you are getting rid of your 3 year old truck, I assume you will do the same with the new one. Why risk deleting it and getting in trouble with being caught, and also having no powertrain warranty left by doing a delete. If you are towing as much and as frequently as it sounds, you shouldn't have issues with the DPF. Just my opinion on this.

I’m looking for used. I found a 2020 3500 HO with 90,000 miles and it’s still gonna be $60k out the door. Found others for more for way less miles so I guess it just depends on the year and miles about the warranty. Because it’ll passive regen you’re saying and build ash?

 

[Synolimit]

if you’re leasing and trading at warranty expiration, why touch it? Beat on it, trade it in, repeat.

Going to go used this time. Unfortunately with ram having yet the same base msrp in 18, 19, 20, and 21, the 22’s went up $6000 and the early 23’s went up $6000, mid 23’s $1000 and the late 23’s $1000. Same damn trucks now $15,000 more as every single item added on is more than before. Or trust me!!! I would!! Leases also mean nothing now! My payments $455. Buying it would have been around $775. Now the leaves are dead even and it’s pointless. I do want to keep this forever now.

 

[Synolimit]

What are you towing with it (what does it weigh) that will determine the best option for you.

As far as the 68 is concerned, it's a good transmission (in stock form). It's #1 enemy is tuning and cranking up the HP (and driving like a teenager). They rarely fail stock and all the bad press you see are self inflected wounds.

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What about mild 35’s? I would do all that I can to keep it cool. Towing will be two track cars and a gooseneck. Sometimes a tractor, skid steer, boom lift. Max maybe around 20,000lbs.

 

[Synolimit]

Any consideration of deleting means you’re not up to date. Ten years ago maybe, but not today.

And why would you blow up a 100k mile warranty on a brand new vehicle? That’s not good business sense.

And speaking of warranties, you should read the current thread about a 2500 with the warranty blacklisted for being overweight. Why would you consider a 2500 for heavy hauling at all? For a dedicated tow rig 3500 all the way.

It’d be used maybe close to 100k already. As for towing regularly only around max for a gas, once in a while max for a diesel.

 

[Travelin Ram]

Have you considered buying out the truck you have now? At least you know how it’s been treated since new.

Buying used -especially diesels- is a roll of the dice.

 

[Synolimit]

Have you considered buying out the truck you have now? At least you know how it’s been treated since new.

Buying used -especially diesels- is a roll of the dice.

Not really. The 14k towing isn’t going to be enough and I dont want to try towing more and something happening. On the road or at the dealer.

 

[Synolimit]

This is false as well. 100k miles on any modern vehicle, much less an HD diesel is practically nothing these days. In mechanical diesel engine days, getting 100k miles out of the thing at all was a major feat, much less to do it in 5 years like so many of us do now. Sure, the 180hp engine was probably still fine but the rest of the truck might not even have a body left on it by then. If you hook 20k lbs to a 1994 ford diesel and go try to drag it back and forth across the country a few times in August, I doubt you make it all the way across one time without something breaking.

Don't take it as an insult, but you should seriously consider a gasoline HD truck. You haven't even bought the diesel yet and in your mind it's already broken. You'll never really trust it and it'll be a massive money pit as you throw things at it to "fix" it and only make it worse. I've seen it happen to a dozen people in the past 5 years.

Just skip all that bull and get a gasser. It isn't worth the work or worry to be able to go up a hill a little bit faster.

I wouldn’t hook 20k up though. Looked at a 97 f250 fully rebuilt and they are only rated at 12,500 so I would try to do more. That’d be foolish. But no, im not opposed to a gasser hence option 1.

 

[Synolimit]

Yes, really. Without spending too much time in the weeds, the modern engines run a very small fraction of EGR, and primarily use it to speed up warm-ups (a worthwhile thing) and to manage DEF consumption. It's practically a non-factor anymore. The Cummins of any vintage since about 2013 is going to drastically outlive the truck its mounted in.

You aren't giving those systems enough credit for how reliable they are. If you use the truck for what it was built to do (pull weight long distances) the odds are high you'll never see any problem. The whole drive train and aftertreatment arrangement in that truck has BILLIONS of miles of validation testing done on it. The tune that some jack leg delete shop dude worked up has very close to zero validation work done. Short term, sure it'll work without faults. Have they fully outfitted an engine with a complete suite of monitoring equipment (main bearing temp sensors, individual exhaust port temp sensors, cylinder pressure sensors, etc)? Absolutely not. They figured out how to get the truck to ignore the exhaust faults. Does that REALLY give you more comfort than operating a truck that had buildings full of engineers working for years and years and miles and miles of testing and validation?

Deleting for reliability or longevity does not make sense anymore. If those systems concern you, you should get a gasoline truck. I can tell you for sure that the concern is unfounded though.

I understand what you’re saying but saying millions spent and engineers in a room are better etc is basically saying a stock item or vehicle never breaks and that’s just foolish thinking. Engineers get it wrong all the time. People are killed all the time. Lemons happen all the time. Were the engineers wise for VW having to recall and pay millions or billions for lying to the EPA?? I had a 370z sports car that couldn’t turn right. It’d over heat on track, fuel starve , braking ice mode, you name it. Subaru can’t make a motor that doesn’t blow up. Why? The tunes run 14.5 AFR to 4500rpm to pass emissions well after max boost, torque etc. it relies on the knock sensor to pull timing and save the motor. Well the ringlands have other agendas. That’s not how you tune a car!! I’d pay a thousand times over to have a shop that is validated by hundreds of pulls and tunes and customers to beat the red tape, hands tied behind their backs manufacturer engineers any day.

 

[Synolimit]

Any consideration of deleting means you’re not up to date. Ten years ago maybe, but not today.

And why would you blow up a 100k mile warranty on a brand new vehicle? That’s not good business sense.

And speaking of warranties, you should read the current thread about a 2500 with the warranty blacklisted for being overweight. Why would you consider a 2500 for heavy hauling at all? For a dedicated tow rig 3500 all the way.

You’re correct, i may not be up to date. I’m only going off forum threads where people have issues and YouTube videos of people with issues and the mechanics that work on them giving their 2 cents. I can only get knowledge from the info I’m seeing. Here’s me now trying to learn more.

 

[Choupique]

Here’s me now trying to learn more.

Here's me trying to save you a dump truck load of money. Don't buy a diesel. I get my information 1st hand. A modded truck is absolutely not going to be more reliable than a stock one, EGR/SCR/DPF/Limp mode included. Short term maybe, long term, no way in hell.

No knock against the average shade tree tuner. Most of them do great work with what theyve got. They just do not have the resources to simulate billions of miles on their stuff in a years time. Ram does.

 

[mtnrider]

What about mild 35’s? I would do all that I can to keep it cool. Towing will be two track cars and a gooseneck. Sometimes a tractor, skid steer, boom lift. Max maybe around 20,000lbs.

If you are towing ~20K you need to be in a 3500 with a Aisin.

.

 

[Synolimit]

Here's me trying to save you a dump truck load of money. Don't buy a diesel. I get my information 1st hand. A modded truck is absolutely not going to be more reliable than a stock one, EGR/SCR/DPF/Limp mode included. Short term maybe, long term, no way in hell.

No knock against the average shade tree tuner. Most of them do great work with what theyve got. They just do not have the resources to simulate billions of miles on their stuff in a years time. Ram does.

I feel like you're understanding but that's ok and I respectfully disagree.

 

[nlambert182]

My 2021 2500 6.4 lease is coming to an end with equity, figured it’s time to upgrade. My truck currently only has a 3,100 payload and 14,200 towing capacity. I going to start towing more with more cars and a bigger trailer.

Option 1. 2500 6.4 with the 4.10 rear

Option 2. 2500 6.7 with the 3.73 rear

Option 3. 3500 6.7 HO Aisin, 3.73 or 4.10 rear.

I see it’s h*t or miss on the 6.7 68RFE. I do like 35” tires!! And I’ll probably delete. I don’t want more power, just want the CELs turned off but I do understand the 68RFE can be tuned to run better. Just worried a delete will only try to add power and kill the 68RFE. I just don’t want any trouble with the EGR and filter etc. I’m also sad option 2 will kill my payload down to like 2,000lbs.

Anyone own these trucks and have a thought? Option 1 will have more payload than option 2 but option 2 will tow about 2,000lbs more. Will 35’s really kill option 2’s 68RFE? Or just screw it and be done by getting option 3 that’ll kill the others?

After owning both a 2500 and 3500, I am a 3500 fan all day for the added payload. The 68RFE transmission is perfectly fine and will last forever *IF* you don't mess with it. If you do delete it, do not tune the transmission nor turn up the power. That's a good way to kill the trans.

My 2500 had 35's for a while (dealer installed them) and it didn't hurt anything other than eating up wheel bearings and getting even worse fuel mileage and making it difficult to hook up to a fifth wheel with the added height. I took them off and went back to stock size. No more wheel bearing issues nor problems with hooking to whatever I wanted.

If it were me and I were going to be towing a lot I'd opt for the 3500 with 4.10 gearing and stay on stock (or close to) sized tires. That was the perfect combo for me that I settled on. Your choice on the 68RFE or the Aisin. Different people have different experiences with both.

As far as deleting goes... I wouldn't bother with it unless I had no other option. If you want the truck to be reliable you don't need to turn it up and that renders the delete useless unless you just did it to eliminate a failure. There are a few mpgs to be had but if you plan to travel through a lot of states that do care about emissions laws it really isn't worth doing.

 

[Truckmike]

If you’re looking for longevity of a Cummins delete it, proper maintenance and don’t abuse it, remove the trans thermal valve and replace it with a bypass valve proper transmission service will extend the life and use quality transmission fluid

 

[nlambert182]

Just out of curiosity... why do you think a delete will make the Cummins engine itself last any longer?

 

[Synolimit]

After owning both a 2500 and 3500, I am a 3500 fan all day for the added payload. The 68RFE transmission is perfectly fine and will last forever *IF* you don't mess with it. If you do delete it, do not tune the transmission nor turn up the power. That's a good way to kill the trans.

My 2500 had 35's for a while (dealer installed them) and it didn't hurt anything other than eating up wheel bearings and getting even worse fuel mileage and making it difficult to hook up to a fifth wheel with the added height. I took them off and went back to stock size. No more wheel bearing issues nor problems with hooking to whatever I wanted.

If it were me and I were going to be towing a lot I'd opt for the 3500 with 4.10 gearing and stay on stock (or close to) sized tires. That was the perfect combo for me that I settled on. Your choice on the 68RFE or the Aisin. Different people have different experiences with both.

As far as deleting goes... I wouldn't bother with it unless I had no other option. If you want the truck to be reliable you don't need to turn it up and that renders the delete useless unless you just did it to eliminate a failure. There are a few mpgs to be had but if you plan to travel through a lot of states that do care about emissions laws it really isn't worth doing.

This is 100% my thoughts others may not be getting. I don’t want to tune the tranny or get more power. Simply delete a failure point. That’s all. MPG would be nice but not a must have. As for tires, I’d only do it on a non dually. The dually i’d leave alone. Cheapest Aisin i see is in fact a dually with 89k. Not sure how I feel about 89k but the trucks mint and cheap. I worry about the delete with that truck with those miles.

 

[Synolimit]

If you’re looking for longevity of a Cummins delete it, proper maintenance and don’t abuse it, remove the trans thermal valve and replace it with a bypass valve proper transmission service will extend the life and use quality transmission fluid

These are my thoughts but I guess im alone. I don’t think the delete will help the motor though. Just delete failure points of items on the motor.

 

[Synolimit]

Just out of curiosity... why do you think a delete will make the Cummins engine itself last any longer?

If this was to me, I don’t think it will. I just think items on the motor will 1 day go out, and if they aren’t needed, delete them.

 

[nlambert182]

If this was to me, I don’t think it will. I just think items on the motor will 1 day go out, and if they aren’t needed, delete them.

It wasn't directed to you, but I get your thought process. However, if it were me I wouldn't delete unless I absolutely had to. If the truck is perfectly fine as-is, then there's no reason to delete it. Maybe IF it has a failure one day, and IF that failure cost more than the delete, and IF I could do it without being hassled for it then I would. This is coming from someone who has deleted both of my Rams. I only did it as a necessity and not as preventative maintenance.

It doesn't matter if it's a dually or not in regards to 35's. If you intend to haul frequently with it, 35's aren't a good choice. Not only might they increase wear on the truck (in my case), it's going to be almost impossible to level tow a gooseneck or fifth wheel. If you don't level tow the trailer, you can cause other problems. You can probably squeak by with a bumper pull trailer with an extended receiver but for bigger loads I'd avoid it.

89k miles is nothing on a well maintained Cummins. It's not even broken in yet. If you're worried about the mileage and chance of an emissions failure at 89k miles... well that's a crap shoot. More importantly is how the truck was used over how many miles are on it. If it were worked, then chances are the DPF, etc... are going to be in better shape than one that was granny driven around town. It could go 200-300k miles. There's no way to know for sure. My 3500 failed likely because I daily drove it and only towed my 5th wheel with it infrequently on the weekends. It didn't get worked enough.

At the end of the day you have to understand that there are some additional considerations when moving to a diesel. And some of those mean you have to pay to play.

 

[Timsdually]

Option 3 with a 4:10. You will never regret it.

I didn't read 4 pages of comments.