ZF service recommendations straight from ZF

[DILLIGAF]

here is what the old trans fluid looks like after 175000 km

Probably won't be enough evidence for the ones that rather believe what FCA says...lol.

 

[BossHogg]

Most people in this thread have better than average knowledge about things automotive, and understand the impacts of lubrication.

I completely understand this, I'm one of the what do you call it, shade tree types. I do all my own maintenance and minor repairs. I can address what I understand based on what I know but what about what I don't know, because of my automotive career I realize there is much more to know. Folks will come to conclusions on what they know and understand but what about what they do not know, or even realize there is more to know? How do you know what question to ask when you don't know you should be asking a question?

I had a career in automotive hardware and software design and I worked with some amazingly brilliant people implementing simple algorithms like oil life for example. This isn't something that came overnight, it came from PhDs and years of ongoing studies and research to determine how to calculate oil life. It is a living algorithm and likely is still maturing as does the quality of lubricants.

Unless one had a career in automotive (I don't recommend it) one couldn't possibly know the amount of people, research, design, testing, alpha, beta, and preproduction efforts that go into vehicles. And even with this effort, recalls and TSBs still exist. Every facet of a vehicle from transmission lubricant to something that sounds simple like a power window switch is a universe of complexity within itself.

But that is only half of it, political regulations are overwhelming. Everyone has heard of CARB and their influence in the states. But we designed and build vehicles for the globe, and each political region had its requirements that had to be met. I recall early in my career spending over a year on something as simple as the turn signal flash rate, sounds simple but think about bulb time on, bulb time off, build ramp-up time, etc. The states share a turn signal flash rate, but in Canada, it was different, and differences continued around the globe. Each new year brought a tsunami of new regulations, most incremental.

Many people think they understand lubricants and likely do based on their knowledge. Recognize that there was an army of smart people behind every blend of a lubricant and a long study of the effects of the lubricant versus the wearing of parts. The quality of the lubricant and its performance over time is very well-known by the manufacturers. I guess it is human nature to second guess the manufacturer's recommendations of, for example, lubricant life, or optimal operating temperature of a lubricant. I'm still trying to figure out why some chose to change their oil at 3K or 5k mile intervals.

 

[pacofortacos]

Probably won't be enough evidence for the ones that rather believe what FCA says...lol.

And then there's those of us that have the lifetime service agreement and chance voiding it if we change the fluid.

 

[pacofortacos]

I have thought of trying to pull the drain plug for a simple drain and fill.

When I called the service agreement company, they said just follow the rec. of the owners manual.

 

[DILLIGAF]

I'm still trying to figure out why some chose to change their oil at 3K or 5k mile intervals.

Because they dont know how to read oil analyst reports

I used to change my engine oil religiously at 5000km and now I just do it once a year. All it took was reading the Oil thread on this forum like 7-8y back to wake me up on how wasteful it was.

 

[kdoublep]

The best thing that ever happened to my truck was the warranty expiring. Made it to 65K without returning to the dealer.

Now I have an exhaust leak on passenger side I'm about to repair and I have no problem with it. Gonna do both sides and be done with it.

Love my truck. No regerts! Lol

 

[Wild one]

And then there's those of us that have the lifetime service agreement and chance voiding it if we change the fluid.

If you change the fluid and use a factory pan and OEM 8/9 speed fluid,they won't be able to tell you changed the fluid.If you plan on keeping the truck long term,that's what i'd do.

 

[kdoublep]

I'm gonna do transmission probably sometime between 80 and 100k miles.

Doing rear diff with amsoil severe gear this weekend (65K) if I pass this damn kidney stone that's sidelined me since Thanksgiving.

She's a pavement princess so never really experienced much fun.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

I completely understand this, I'm one of the what do you call it, shade tree types. I do all my own maintenance and minor repairs. I can address what I understand based on what I know but what about what I don't know, because of my automotive career I realize there is much more to know. Folks will come to conclusions on what they know and understand but what about what they do not know, or even realize there is more to know? How do you know what question to ask when you don't know you should be asking a question?

I had a career in automotive hardware and software design and I worked with some amazingly brilliant people implementing simple algorithms like oil life for example. This isn't something that came overnight, it came from PhDs and years of ongoing studies and research to determine how to calculate oil life. It is a living algorithm and likely is still maturing as does the quality of lubricants.

Unless one had a career in automotive (I don't recommend it) one couldn't possibly know the amount of people, research, design, testing, alpha, beta, and preproduction efforts that go into vehicles. And even with this effort, recalls and TSBs still exist. Every facet of a vehicle from transmission lubricant to something that sounds simple like a power window switch is a universe of complexity within itself.

But that is only half of it, political regulations are overwhelming. Everyone has heard of CARB and their influence in the states. But we designed and build vehicles for the globe, and each political region had its requirements that had to be met. I recall early in my career spending over a year on something as simple as the turn signal flash rate, sounds simple but think about bulb time on, bulb time off, build ramp-up time, etc. The states share a turn signal flash rate, but in Canada, it was different, and differences continued around the globe. Each new year brought a tsunami of new regulations, most incremental.

Many people think they understand lubricants and likely do based on their knowledge. Recognize that there was an army of smart people behind every blend of a lubricant and a long study of the effects of the lubricant versus the wearing of parts. The quality of the lubricant and its performance over time is very well-known by the manufacturers. I guess it is human nature to second guess the manufacturer's recommendations of, for example, lubricant life, or optimal operating temperature of a lubricant. I'm still trying to figure out why some chose to change their oil at 3K or 5k mile intervals.

I'm not here to argue, but I think you contradict yourself. I change my oil every 3000 miles because of the past/last performance of the known and outgoing formula lubricants. Each an every 'upgrade' may not be an upgrade. When you go from SN to SN+ and now SP, there is absolutely no way any well-known manufacturer knows the performance of the "new and improved" formula going forward. When the new SP formula is released and starting to be consumed in the 'real world', then and only then, can the new data be accrued and analyzed, not before. Before the new data is accumulated and evaluated, you only have whatever testing the manufacturer did. At the point of new release it can only be a speculation based on their laboratory data, and they have their own agenda to fulfill.
I tend to evaluate the known successes and failures that forum members choose to share. It seems that certain oils, weights and OCI's tend to lead to better and more enjoyable trucks, within reason. Others who tend to share their real life experiences and tell you to not follow the OCI interval of the computer because of major engine repair, share their stories to warn us of their failed engines and what we should do to avoid it, again within reason.
As for being a former chemist, if you think you are saving the environment by saving oil by changing at some long OCI, you're not. Oil is recycled at a very good success rate in this country if you follow the proper channels and not act like a knucklehead and dispose of it in the trash.
You may think that putting plastics in that nice expensive bucket that the township/county gives you does the environment some good. Well it doesn't. The latest number I saw was that something like six percent of the plastic we recycle is actually recycled properly. That is a major failure. Think of all the money spent on that failure. Makes me sick.

 

[BossHogg]

I'm not here to argue

Nor am I. I just wanted to make known that there is another universe on the other side of automotive service and try to convey its complexities so that you may recognize that suggested service intervals are not grabbed from the air.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

Nor am I. I just wanted to make known that there is another universe on the other side of automotive service and try to convey its complexities so that you may recognize that suggested service intervals are not grabbed from the air.

No problem. New products when introduced are nothing but like a weather forecast, and we know how that turns out. When something new is introduced, we become the data and only time will tell if their forecast is like their prediction or not.

 

[pacofortacos]

If you change the fluid and use a factory pan and OEM 8/9 speed fluid,they won't be able to tell you changed the fluid.If you plan on keeping the truck long term,that's what i'd do.

I have considered that, or even paying the dealer to do it - though I think I would be better off doing it myself and acting like it had never been touched. I'm only at 50k miles (with 45k miles being highway miles) so it hasn't been a pressing concern yet