ZF8HP70 and Lifetime Maxcare

[COPPERHED DAVE]

FYI My wife has a 2012 charger 3.6 with 8 speed 181K miles tranny never been touched.Still shifts great.Also have a 2016 challenger 3.6 8 speed.Wish my 2013 ram had the 8 speed.

 

[corneileous]

Im starting to lean towards those saying "do whatever the manual says" to keep all warranties (including MaxCare) intact.

I dont think Ill ever touch the trans. I hate to let it all go to poop over the years, but it might be the only way to be sure it gets covered. Even asking the dealer *right now* wont do much good if the same people arent at the dealership 7+ years from now if the trans dies.

Now...ENGINE OIL might be a different story. Im still not thrilled with their 5-20 recommendation, nor how noisy my engine sounds on the "premium" oil (PUP). Not quite sure which way to go with that.

That engine oil’s a lot easier to hide...lol.


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[corneileous]

after reading this thread i am a lot happier about owning the 545rfe.

not as fast as the 8 speed but easy to maintain. 1st change do spin on filter and sump filter and swap out pan for dorman replacement w magnetic drain plug.
then just change in minute whenever u have to.

Yeah, but that 8 speed sure is nice. And if you’re not on warranty, somebody posted a DiY for doing the service yourself.


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[PoMansRam]

Where does it say if you do decide to change fluid/pan/filter at some point on your Ram's 8spd it WILL void your warranty?

Fact of the matter is, a transmission will fail at some point due to lack of fluid changes. It's how these things work today. It's not like the 2 or 3 spd autos from the 50s thru the 80s. These transmissions were purely mechanical beasts and typically the car would fall apart long before the AT would.

Today's ATs run hotter and are loaded with solenoids, small passages and electronics that rely on very clean fluid. Bearings, bushings and seals get beat up as more and more solids circulate around in the factory ATF. Is it likely our 8spds will make it to 100-125K miles? Most likely. I find it funny that 100-125K is considered high mileage. I know guys who consider that new! LOL.

 

[Jdoc]

Where does it say if you do decide to change fluid/pan/filter at some point on your Ram's 8spd it WILL void your warranty?

Fact of the matter is, a transmission will fail at some point due to lack of fluid changes. It's how these things work today. It's not like the 2 or 3 spd autos from the 50s thru the 80s. These transmissions were purely mechanical beasts and typically the car would fall apart long before the AT would.

Today's ATs run hotter and are loaded with solenoids, small passages and electronics that relay on clean fluid. Is it likely our 8spds will make it to 100-125K miles? Most likely. I find it funny that 100-125K is considered high mileage. I know guys who consider that new! LOL.

 

[corneileous]

Where does it say if you do decide to change fluid/pan/filter at some point on your Ram's 8spd it WILL void your warranty?

It doesn’t. Not that I’m aware of. Some people have expressed their concern that if you have it serviced while under warranty, especially if you have an outside shop do it, or even if you do it yourself that maxcare might not be happy with you if something were to happen afterwards because you performed maintenance on a component that’s labeled as non-serviceable. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. Best chance I think they would help your immunity- if there is such in this transmission would be having the dealer do it but as was said, why pay for a service of your warranty will cover the repair/replacement when ever your truck ***** out the transmission? It’s just wasted money, really.

Hell, you may not ever have a problem- mechanically in the long run or with the warranty(if something were to happen after the fact) if you service it while under maxcare contract but is that a risk you wanna take? Have an extra $600 laying around with nothing else at all to use it for?


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[Jdoc]

I've Not been told that. I just did mine as I stated earlier in the thread and so far no issues. Although in 15,000 mi I plan on just changing fluid to ensure all old is out.
Will use the same Redline Fluid....D6 atf.

 

[PoMansRam]

I've Not been told that. I just did mine as I stated earlier in the thread and so far no issues. Although in 15,000 mi I plan on just changing fluid to ensure all old is out.
Will use the same Redline Fluid....D6 atf.

Sorry if I missed it, but was that Redline D6 the same color as the factory fluid? To me, if you are still under warranty, I'd stick with the same color ATF just to avoid suspicion of the wrong fluid being used.

 

[corneileous]

Fact of the matter is, a transmission will fail at some point due to lack of fluid changes. It's how these things work today. It's not like the 2 or 3 spd autos from the 50s thru the 80s. These transmissions were purely mechanical beasts and typically the car would fall apart long before the AT would.

Today's ATs run hotter and are loaded with solenoids, small passages and electronics that rely on very clean fluid. Bearings, bushings and seals get beat up as more and more solids circulate around in the factory ATF. Is it likely our 8spds will make it to 100-125K miles? Most likely. I find it funny that 100-125K is considered high mileage. I know guys who consider that new! LOL.

I guess there was a whole lot more to your post when i quoted it...Lol.

But yeah, you’re right. I don’t understand how they can say you never need to service this thing even after the place that makes these things says you do.


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[Jdoc]

NO! It's not the same color.
Its Red full synthetic d6. It specifically calls zf 8/9 speed trannys and a lot more. Lol.
I too have the lifetime warranty. But I'm not Chancing something going wrong while towing either. There's a ton of moving parts in this tranny. Very complex. I followed the zf mfr. Procedures. No issue as to date.

 

[JPT]

Where does it say if you do decide to change fluid/pan/filter at some point on your Ram's 8spd it WILL void your warranty?

Fact of the matter is, a transmission will fail at some point due to lack of fluid changes. It's how these things work today. It's not like the 2 or 3 spd autos from the 50s thru the 80s. These transmissions were purely mechanical beasts and typically the car would fall apart long before the AT would.

Today's ATs run hotter and are loaded with solenoids, small passages and electronics that rely on very clean fluid. Bearings, bushings and seals get beat up as more and more solids circulate around in the factory ATF. Is it likely our 8spds will make it to 100-125K miles? Most likely. I find it funny that 100-125K is considered high mileage. I know guys who consider that new! LOL.

The manual states that the fluid is lifetime. It isn't only Ram that indicates that the fluid is lifetime, Audi does and many others.

The problem is, these trans are very specific to fluid levels and the filling procedures are very difficult. If a manual states it is lifetime, an you change it you are going against their recommendations. Since they try to find reasons to not pay for warranty/service contract work, you run the risk of them refusing to pay for not following their recommendations. This my be true, even if you bring it to the dealership (since they advise against doing the work, but will do whatever you want done, i.e. lifts, exhaust,...).

If you are out of warranty, do what you feel is best, but if you have MaxCare (which is what this thread is about), you might want to consider following their recommendations since they are footing the bill in the unlikely event of failure.

 

[corneileous]

NO! It's not the same color.
Its Red full synthetic d6. It specifically calls zf 8/9 speed trannys and a lot more. Lol.
I too have the lifetime warranty. But I'm not Chancing something going wrong while towing either. There's a ton of moving parts in this tranny. Very complex. I followed the zf mfr. Procedures. No issue as to date.

That’s another thing; I think you said a while back that you do a lot of towing so, I don’t think that would technically fall under “normal operating conditions”. But then again, there is no guideline referring to heavy service either.

Since you serviced yours on your own account while under warranty I sure hope you never have an issue with it. But then again too, all of this concerning that transmission is such a gray area that how is one to know, even if they don’t know to ask or what questions to ask?


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[mohemipar]

Personally I’m not going to bother touching the fluid on any of my 8 speeds unless it was under severe use like constant towing, constant drag racing or track use in the heat. And the manuals clear as day recommend doing a fluid change under those “severe duty” circumstances. If the fluid is not regularly reaching very hot temps, I am going to take my chances listening to the engineers and assume it does not degrade for the life of the vehicle. The 8HP’s are in a ton of vehicles now being used in all sorts of climates and for various duties. I haven’t really seen any indication that they are having issues with fluid going bad.

If I did change the fluid I'd definitely use OEM fluid. If you don't, that is where they will definitely get you if there's a failure. It says like 5 times in a row in the manual to only use Mopar fluid for ZF transmissions.

 

[PoMansRam]

I feel like we're going round and 'round on this. The manual states "lifetime". That does not mean if you do decide to change transmission fluid you void your warranty. It cant.

Now on the other hand, if there is evidence that you did service the unit improperly.. Sure.. I can see this as being grounds for a warranty coverage nightmare.

Like I say Jdoc, I'm with you on wanting to change ATF and DIY. I've done 6-8 "sealed" transmissions myself. Some with OEM ATF, most with aftermarket. .I can almost guarantee that if you did have some type of transmission issue that you want Maxcare to cover, the fact that red ATF drains out is going to be a stumbling block for you. Hopefully receipts and some sort of proof of what you used will suffice.

 

[Jdoc]

Mine would be considered severe use. I do tow a lot and am on interstate at high speeds.
Also I noticed a difference in the temperature and some shifting. Shifting went away with fluid change but temperature is still what I consider slightly high at highway speeds. Temp is 180-90.
I'm not sure what average running temp on 8hp70 is.
I'm assuming dealer/ FCA would honor any repairs. We will find out of something happens.

 

[corneileous]

Mine would be considered severe use. I do tow a lot and am on interstate at high speeds.
Also I noticed a difference in the temperature and some shifting. Shifting went away with fluid change but temperature is still what I consider slightly high at highway speeds. Temp is 180-90.
I'm not sure what average running temp on 8hp70 is.
I'm assuming dealer/ FCA would honor any repairs. We will find out of something happens.

Even if that Redline stuff you did use was better than the mopar fluid, I think I’d be using the Mopar part-numbered stuff from now on(filter/pan and lubricant) of you wanna save your chances of warranty coverage.

You’ve already serviced it so why stop now? Best thing now is just keep on keepin’ on and not let anything happen to it. How long ago did you service it? I think I’d be placing an order for some of the mopar stuff for when your next service comes up. Maybe even make a separate ghost order now, and cancel it so that you at least have the receipts to prove that you put the same stuff on/in that the dealer woulda used.

But after all, the manual doesn’t state whether you can or can’t service it. It just says it’s not needed. But maxcare does state that OEM parts must be used.


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[PoMansRam]

I've had my 8hp45 read as high as 205F on a 90F, super humid day. I've read that the danger zone is anything above 240F.

 

[indept]

Mine would be considered severe use. I do tow a lot and am on interstate at high speeds.
Also I noticed a difference in the temperature and some shifting. Shifting went away with fluid change but temperature is still what I consider slightly high at highway speeds. Temp is 180-90.
I'm not sure what average running temp on 8hp70 is.
I'm assuming dealer/ FCA would honor any repairs. We will find out of something happens.

That seems to be typical temps for these

 

[pacofortacos]

Personally I’m not going to bother touching the fluid on any of my 8 speeds unless it was under severe use like constant towing, constant drag racing or track use in the heat. And the manuals clear as day recommend doing a fluid change under those “severe duty” circumstances. If the fluid is not regularly reaching very hot temps, I am going to take my chances listening to the engineers and assume it does not degrade for the life of the vehicle. The 8HP’s are in a ton of vehicles now being used in all sorts of climates and for various duties. I haven’t really seen any indication that they are having issues with fluid going bad.

If I did change the fluid I'd definitely use OEM fluid. If you don't, that is where they will definitely get you if there's a failure. It says like 5 times in a row in the manual to only use Mopar fluid for ZF transmissions.

That is the big issue - there is NO severe duty schedule for the 8 speed.

 

[corneileous]

Personally I’m not going to bother touching the fluid on any of my 8 speeds unless it was under severe use like constant towing, constant drag racing or track use in the heat. And the manuals clear as day recommend doing a fluid change under those “severe duty” circumstances.If the fluid is not regularly reaching very hot temps, I am going to take my chances listening to the engineers and assume it does not degrade for the life of the vehicle. The 8HP’s are in a ton of vehicles now being used in all sorts of climates and for various duties. I haven’t really seen any indication that they are having issues with fluid going bad.

If I did change the fluid I'd definitely use OEM fluid. If you don't, that is where they will definitely get you if there's a failure. It says like 5 times in a row in the manual to only use Mopar fluid for ZF transmissions.

That is the big issue - there is NO severe duty schedule for the 8 speed.

I guess I missed that up there earlier but he must be talking about documentation from the trans manufacturer because the Ram manual doesn’t say that. The only thing it says is if the fluid has become contaminated with water, ECT.... or if the case has ever been disassembled for whatever reason.

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