1500's are really this useless? - Hit the CAT scale today - Disgusted

[Thorvald]

Well after buying a brand new Ram 1500 fully setup for towing and planning to upgrade to a larger travel trailer I finally had reality set in (well "legal" reality).

I had been reading threads all over the Interwebs and listened to debates from the "Weight Police" as others call them but still felt fairly comfortable after spreadsheeting my new truck with expected cargo and hitch weights.

Still something was bugging me and everyone said just go get the truck weighed then you know for sure. We only have a few CAT scales here in Southern Ontario but I found one not too far away and went and weighed the new truck this morning.

See the CAT ticket below, this is with a 100% full tank of gas (regular tank, not the extended) and zero cargo and passengers, just the truck which is a:

2017 Ram 1500 Big Horn Crewcab 6' 4" box
Hemi with 8 speed 3.92 Axle
Rambox
Bedliner (linex)
Bakflip G2 tonneau cover
No cargo at all, no driver, not even a "jacket" left in the truck when weighed. Full load of fuel.



So as you can see its:

Gross weight: 5880 lbs
Front axle: 3300 lbs
Rear axle: 2580

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Now is where things get interesting...

FCA (RAM) indicates my truck should be capable of the following (based upon features):

Crew Cab - 6' 4" box 4x4
GVWR: 6900
Payload: 1450
Base Weight: 5451.56
Front: 3223.72
Rear: 2227.84
GAWR: 3900 and 3900
Max Trailer Weight (SAE J2807): 9830

Payload is abysmal but I can work with 1450... I thought!

Data taken from Ram Towing Chart, 2017 for my config of truck:

https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ramtrucks.com%2Fassets%2Ftowing_guide%2Fpdf%2F2017_ram_1500_towing_charts.pdf
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Now take the stickers on my truck, first the door jamb. Same basic numbers as above.



The the nasty tire sticker (because FCA put Passenger tires on a Truck):



Max load: 1116 lbs ... no where near the 1450 they claimed. No big deal, can upgrade tires... but can you get a new sticker for the new tires? Hmmm...

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So all that being said now comes the worst part, the TRUE math, no marketing crap or lying dealers/FCA:

GVWR: 6900 lbs
Weight of truck empty but with full fuel: 5880 lbs
6900 - 5880 = 1020 lbs

This leaves us with 1020 lbs of "legal" payload. My god my Jeep Rubicon Unlimited has more payload than this (but sure as hell isn't listed as being cable to tow 9000+ pounds, it's rated for 3500).

So with 1020 lbs lets add driver and family:

Driver: 150 lbs (Yes I'm Mr. Joe Average as per SAE J2807)
Wife: 130 lbs (approximation, I'm not dumb enough to post a real womens weight on the net! lol).
Child 1: 120 lbs
Child 2: 70 lbs
Kids Friend: 70 lbs (they always bring one camping)
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Total Passengers: 550 lbs

Remaining weight for anything else INCLUDING tongue weight:

1020 lbs - 550 lbs = 470 lbs!!!!!!



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You gotta be kidding me... if I weighted as much as most normal North Americans (see what I did there... lol), our available payload would be more like 300 lbs! My Motorcycle can legally carry more than that with a passenger!!!

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I can't believe FCA thinks the Ram can tow 9830 lbs, that would be a tongue weight of 983 lbs.

1020 - 983 lbs = 37 lbs of cargo before even the driver is added!


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Ok lets go by what they said was my original base (before Rambox, tonneau, Linex), they indicated it was 5451.56 lbs.

(as per "2017 RAM 1500 Trailer Towing Chart - SAE J2807 Compliant")

6900 GVWR - 5451.56 base = 1448.44 lbs of cargo

9830 Max Trailer with 10% tongue weight = 983 lbs

1448.44 - 983 = 465.44 lbs

Passenger Weight 300 lbs (SAE J2807)

465.44 - 300 = 165.44 lbs remaining Payload

Hitch 65 lbs (SAE J2807)

165.44 - 65 = 100.44 lbs remaining Payload

Good lord, yes they didn't lie, their chart is accurate but your truck is maxed and cannot have ANY other options and only 100 lbs of cargo... Disgusting.

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So as you can see, putting a family in a 1500 and expecting to "legally" tow a Travel Trailer is basically impossible. Don't forget this is with NO cargo in the front passthrough storage of the trailer such as oh I don't know, lawn chairs lol. Very disgusted by all this and I hope this thread helps anyone in the future even considering a 1500 for towing... forget it. Get a 2500 or bigger.


My existing travel trailer, a tiny little Jayco 17z hybrid (3500 max GVWR) has a dry (read: WAY underrated in the brochure) weight of 340 lbs. Add battery and two propane tanks:

340 + 50lbs Battery + 37 lbs LP + 37lbs LP = 464 lbs calculated and that is with weight in the front storage.

So my truck with family in it (and no jackets, food, video games, iPhones lol) has just 470 lbs of payload left.

470 - 464 lbs = 6 lbs of Cargo left!!!!

So my brand new killer pickup CANNOT legally tow my little tiny 17z trailer that my Jeep unlimited could (legally). And this is without a real hitch weight... I have a sherline scale so I'm going to go out and weight the 17z in a few minutes just to see what the REAL tongue weight is.

EDIT: Just weighed the Jayco 17z with unknown qty of propane but most other junk in trailer.... 550 lbs on Sherline scale. I can't legall toy this tiny trailer lol!

Insanity.

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Now yes, I see Ram Hemi's every day (Laramies with full air suspension) pulling 37 foot Starcraft monsters loaded to the gills... The truck "can" do it, just not legally. Going to open a beer tonight and throw darts at random objects lol...

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Please someone tell me where my math went wrong lol!

Cheers
Tim

 

[WilliamS]

Your math is correct, the towing setup assumes driver only in the math. So load up the trailer with the gear. Or do like the rest of us, load up the truck and roll out.

 

[Thorvald]

Your math is correct, the towing setup assumes driver only in the math. So load up the trailer with the gear. Or do like the rest of us, load up the truck and roll out.

Love it and exactly what I plan to do. I'll add the Timberin's etc just for peace of mind but wow what a journey.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Mustangmike66]

It’s amazing that your truck only weighs 5880.


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[69GWC]

Yeah Ram did a number on the 1500 "truck". but hey it rides great. lol
Gotta buy tires stock tires are junk, Tuff truck coils, or airbags , I like both and ad a heavy duty swaybar to get it up to par with any other half ton.

Then tear that sticker off...lol

 

[crazykid1994]

My jam sticker says 1450lbs. The more add ons the lower your weight goes. I drive an express cab 4x4 3.92 gears. Also with p-rated tires


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[Pull Ya]

Store this somewhere in the back of your mind----Load the truck and the trailer, go on vacation, and hopefully you'll never be involved in an accident involving a serious injury or worst. If that ever happens, I suggest having a really good attorney on retainer, as that is probably when you will see all those numbers again.
Jay

 

[CrispyBacon]

What tires do you have?

 

[Rzrman328]

Yeaaa....id just load up n go.

 

[VernDiesel]

I transport new dry Airstreams from mfg to dealerships commercially with my ED.

I have a 14 BH QC 4x4 6.4 bed ED 3.92 trailer brake controller, tow mirrors, factory receiver, hitch camera. Goose neck hitch (was to transport new empty trailers mfg to dealerships) and a Tonneau cover. GVWR 6,950. With my 200 pounds in front seat it CAT scaled;

Steer. 3,340
Drive. 2,560
Total 5,900

Some thoughts; Is exceeding Mfg recommended max GVWR illegal? Or just not recommended by mfg. As you are not towing commercially.

If your TT is loaded to max GVWR of 3500 you can with WDH transfer weight off your truck drive axle back to your TT axles to get your tongue weight down to 10 percent IE 350 LBS. As seen by your truck or rather the scales.

That said I get over GVWR occasionally commercially. I must scale in port of entry states WY UT plus AZ to get permit. Other states can random. Most states do not want me in their scale lines as I'm too small. IMO you would have to really **** somebody off having regular plates IE non transporter plates to have DOT or other to pull you over and put you on portable scales.

Scalehouses have never been interested in my GVWR only axles weights. I have actually been over on my drive axle to 4,140 in AZ and they have never said anything. They know it's a half ton because they ask as the permit price is less.

Agreed best is axle to frame bags such as Timbergrove or TLC or Tuff Truck 1211 coils. For suspension dampening support & leveling if needed. Cheaper in coil bags also work as do the Timbren extended air block bump stops. But I'm spoiled by the better axle to frame air bag setup.

But first & foremost is a built in No sway WDH. If you don't have one check etrailer.com. Husky centerline, Blue Ox Swaypro, Equalizer. Pro prop is best but way expensive & overkill for that size trailer. Really with the right hitch well set up you should not need bags or springs for your cab load & trailer. Unless you plan to put a quad or such in the bed.

On return trips I sometimes have a Harley or other motorcycle etc in the bed and a boat cargo or TT in tow. Then the suspension control & dampening is great.

BTW the 20" wheel factory Wranglers are rated to 2,601 each or 10,004 for your truck. The 1,116 is due to GVWR and actual weight as it left the mfg. That said moving from a standard load tire to a better load rating tire will add some stability.

 

[Thorvald]

That was a absolutely awesome reply! Thanks!

 

[TRCM]

My god my Jeep Rubicon Unlimited has more payload than this (but sure as hell isn't listed as being cable to tow 9000+ pounds, it's rated for 3500).

Have you scaled your JK yet ?

May find out it is just as bad.................

 

[GsRAM]

Sorry to see that post. Wow, according to your door jamb sticker, your truck has less payload than my wife's 2016 4 cylinder Chevy equinox does. That's crazy.

This is exactly why i traded my 15 Chevy Silverado for my 17 ram 2500. Now i have over 3100lbs of payload and have plenty of capacity for my current trailer or the Jayco 26BH we are considering.

 

[Wahrsuul]

One thing about the Dodge 1500 - they sacrificed load capacity for ride quality. For me it's a great trade off, but it doesn't work for everyone.

Also, in looking at the tow/load stats for my 09, if I had the 17" wheels as opposed to the 20", my max trailer capacity goes up just over 1000lbs (6450 to 7500) and my payload by 60lbs. GCWR goes from 12K to 13K. Strange that the GAWR doesn't change. Don't know why an '11 has more capacity than mine...

 

[Riccochet]

lol...my jamb sticker says 774 lbs of cargo, yet I have CC/SB 8 speed with 3.92's and is rated to tow 10,340 lbs with a GVWR of 6200 lbs. I had it CAT scaled at 5910, full tank and no people or cargo in it. So, what, that leaves me with 390 lbs of cargo capacity? LOLOL. I'm 180 and my wife is 150, which leaves me with 60 lbs of cargo capacity?

If I put 4 adults in the truck I'm over weight. Legally, I can't even tow my boat with this truck, if I go by the stickers.

I just go by GAWR and don't exceed those numbers. 3900 lbs per axle gets you 7800 lbs of GVWR. So, my truck being 5910 gives me about 1800 lbs of cargo capacity, which is more realistic for the config of my truck.

 

[GsRAM]

lol...my jamb sticker says 774 lbs of cargo, yet I have CC/SB 8 speed with 3.92's and is rated to tow 10,340 lbs with a GVWR of 6200 lbs. I had it CAT scaled at 5910, full tank and no people or cargo in it. So, what, that leaves me with 390 lbs of cargo capacity? LOLOL. I'm 180 and my wife is 150, which leaves me with 60 lbs of cargo capacity?

If I put 4 adults in the truck I'm over weight. Legally, I can't even tow my boat with this truck, if I go by the stickers.

I just go by GAWR and don't exceed those numbers. 3900 lbs per axle gets you 7800 lbs of GVWR. So, my truck being 5910 gives me about 1800 lbs of cargo capacity, which is more realistic for the config of my truck.

wow, that's the lowest payload rating I've seen yet. according to that, my 2008 4 door Ford focus has more payload than your truck, i think the sticker says 889 lbs. something has to be wrong, no way any modern half ton truck should be rated for less than a half ton!

as far as the ride quality justification goes, i don't buy it. my 2015 Chevy Silverado 1500 rode like a 70s full size sedan, very soft and smooth, yet it had over 1700lbs of payload according to the sticker. it was a decent truck, but the GM 6 speed was total garbage

 

[sandawilliams]

I bought my 2009 ram 1500 new. It was and always will be the best truck I ever owned. I pulled a 31' Jayco that weighted 7050# loaded per the scale. With the wdh adjusted properly I was within 1.5" of my bump stops. Towed this way for over 10,000 miles and 'got by'. Then I purchased my 800# atv. Loaded it in the bed and hooked up the trailer and off we went. WAY overloaded. Returned home after the trip and started making mods to increase the stability of the load. Started with TLC system. Spent two years trying to make it work. While loaded and with 5 PSI it would shake the cab of the truck to the point I thought the dash was going to fall out. I finally removed that system and went with the tuff truck variable rate coils. I could see no difference with these coils over the factory coils. I learned a hard and expensive lesson- you cant make a 2500 out of a 1500. I am sure you can get by with your current truck but I tow a lot since retirement and needed something for the long haul.
Good luck.

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

I’d be more worried about GCWR, axle, tire, and rim ratings. Going a little over GVWR isn’t going to hurt anything. Think about this..........EcoDiesels have a 6950 lbs gvwr, mine has a 6800lbs GVWR.

Same axles, brakes, rims, tires, transmission, gears, cab config, ect........so what’s the difference? EcoDiesel weighs more than a Hemi and would make the payload even worse so Ram kicked it up a tick. Point being a little over is ok, use some common sense about it.

A little over is not Gross Negligance and that is what gets you in trouble legally, not simply exceeding a rating. 72 in a 70 is illegal but you gonna get pulled over for that?!?!?

Just food for thought

 

[Riccochet]

wow, that's the lowest payload rating I've seen yet. according to that, my 2008 4 door Ford focus has more payload than your truck, i think the sticker says 889 lbs. something has to be wrong, no way any modern half ton truck should be rated for less than a half ton!

as far as ride quality goes, i don't buy it. my 2015 Chevy Silverado 1500 rode like a 70s full size sedan, very soft and smooth, yet it had over 1700lbs of payload according to the sticker. it was a decent truck, but the GM 6 speed was total garbage

For your hilarious viewing pleasure. And, I did ask the dealer about that and even they said the manufacturer must have left a "1" off the front of that number. There's no way in hell it only has 774 lbs of cargo capacity. LOL

 

[Riccochet]

I just realized. When 4 of us went to ride with our downhill mountain bikes I was over capacity in the truck. Yeah, 4 people and 4 mountain bikes. Just the 4 people alone I was over capacity, according to the sticker.