2013 4.7 knocking, any help?

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Blackhawk

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Hello guys,

I have a 2013 4.7 that recently started to tick so loud, it sounded like a borderline knock.

It seemed to have happen overnight, i drove the truck one night, she didn’t have any issues, and then I go to fire her up the next day, and all the sudden it’s ticking so loud it’s knocking. It’s ticked since it was new, but the sound always went away when it got warm.

I have done several things to try and diagnose the problem, all with interesting results:

1.) Removed drivers and passenger rocker covers, all lifters OK, all rockers OK, noise slightly changed when cranking in flood mode with all drivers lifters/rockers removed. It went from being a solid tick to 2 ticks that weren’t as solid. Something to note here is even with it just cranking in flood mode, it had solid oil pressure with just 4-5 revolutions.

2.) Took timing chain cover off, all chains are OK, guides are OK, tensioners are OK, no slack in anything.

3.) Dropped oil pan, no movement in rod bearings, some “metal” in the pan from Engine Restore. Can’t tell anything about mains as it’s a bedplate. From what i could see, no cylinder wear/piston skirt damage in any of the visible cylinder bores.

4.) Engine compression seems to be OK from what ive seen reading on other posts (130-150PSI) and that’s with the engine cold after sitting for a month.

5.) Noise seems to be half the speed of the crank.

6.) After buttoning up the truck as much as i can, and running it with distilled water as coolant, the ticking would slightly quiet down compared to when it was cold. I also noticed that, when cranking in flood mode, the ticking would go away when the engine was warm, and come back when it was cold.

7.) After this, and driving it for around 4 miles on the highway, when letting your foot off the gas, the sound would completely go away and then come back when you put your foot back onto the gas.

8.) When cranking the engine when it’s warm, it seems to spin over faster, and sound like it’s low on compression across the board on ALL cylinders.

Lastly, when listening to the engine with a mechanics stethoscope, the noise is 100% louder on the drivers side bank with the loudest part being the exhaust manifold. After checking the rest of the engine while it’s running with the stethoscope, it’s also coming from the back of the engine, not the front.

Any help? I will attach a video later today.
 
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Blackhawk

Blackhawk

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Forgot to mention, when driving it, there was a pretty obvious lack of power and the truck seemed to sound a little weird. Set a P0158 code as well.
 

Burla

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Do you have warm idle tick?

This- "when cranking in flood mode, the ticking would go away when the engine was warm, and come back when it was cold."- suggests that perhaps a lubrication strategy could be helpful. If you are talking about the tick comes back when cold "in flood mode" Can you verify, you have tick in cold fllood mode versus warm flood mode? Or do you mean when start in flood mode you would get no tick under operation? Can you expand on this.

I have no clue on the cel and how that would effect knock.
 
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Blackhawk

Blackhawk

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Do you have warm idle tick?

This- "when cranking in flood mode, the ticking would go away when the engine was warm, and come back when it was cold."- suggests that perhaps a lubrication strategy could be helpful. If you are talking about the tick comes back when cold "in flood mode" Can you verify, you have tick in cold fllood mode versus warm flood mode? Or do you mean when start in flood mode you would get no tick under operation? Can you expand on this.

I have no clue on the cel and how that would effect knock.
There is a tick in cold flood mode vs warm flood mode, yes.

Ticking remains the same when the engine is running in dependent of temperature. It just slightly gets better when the engine is warmed up.
 

rzr6-4

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Are you sure it's in the engine? Broken manifold bolt is easy enough to check and easy-ish to fix.
 
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Blackhawk

Blackhawk

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Are you sure it's in the engine? Broken manifold bolt is easy enough to check and easy-ish to fix.
Something exhaust would sound about right to me. I dropped the trans in April to replace the torque converter with a high stall one, and couldn’t get some of the flange bolts in right/tightened all the way down. The U clamp also broke a while ago that holds the muffler pipe to the y pipe.
 

Burla

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Engine ticking while running -


Cold Crank Tick -


Warm Crank -

That is great work there, rare we find such great examples of an issue. That cold one is key to this.

I dont know how exhaust would make the cold tick noise with cold fllood mode, doesnt make sense.

Now, the forum has done a ton of work on tick but mostly for hemi's, so with your engine you are like the canary in the coal mine as far as trying a lube strategy. I'm not sold that is lifters, but "if" it is lifters a lube strategy has more then a fair chance at working. If you have fresh or kinda fresh oil drop some lubegard biotech in there, it provides EP or extreme pressure additives that coat perpendicular force. That would be a starting point.

But I must admit we have no info on this with hemi tick because you are smarter then all of us, we should have done flood mode cold versus warm and we would have this info, so I thank you for that. If this issue is perpendicular in nature EP additives should help. Sadly most shelf oils do not have levels the white papers prove are most beneficial.
 
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Blackhawk

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That is great work there, rare we find such great examples of an issue. That cold one is key to this.

I dont know how exhaust would make the cold tick noise with cold fllood mode, doesnt make sense.

Now, the forum has done a ton of work on tick but mostly for hemi's, so with your engine you are like the canary in the coal mine as far as trying a lube strategy. I'm not sold that is lifters, but "if" it is lifters a lube strategy has more then a fair chance at working. If you have fresh or kinda fresh oil drop some lubegard biotech in there, it provides EP or extreme pressure additives that coat perpendicular force. That would be a starting point.

But I must admit we have no info on this with hemi tick because you are smarter then all of us, we should have done flood mode cold versus warm and we would have this info, so I thank you for that. If this issue is perpendicular in nature EP additives should help. Sadly most shelf oils do not have levels the white papers prove are most beneficial.
Thank you, i appreciate it.

I’m not completely sold on it being lifters either and like you said, Exhaust doesn’t make a ton of sense either, as it ticks even with the engine off. I am mostly basing it off the fact the noise does completely go away when it enters DFCO mode when coasting.

I will try lubeguard and see how it runs with some idling and some mild driving. Only other thing i can think of is it being a messed up wrist pin or something similar.
 

Burla

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I would think the answer has something to do with why it cold ticks in flood versus warm. What are the conditions in both of those situations, one lubrication, when warm those pieces have oil on them when cold they don't, also metal shrinks in the cold so could that be it? I think not because the tick is there when warm, makes me think it is a dry metal issue. You have perpendicular and rotational possibilities here. But, if so what explains the fact it ticks when warm, just not warm flood start. So it is also a load issue, it ticks cold flood and under load, any rpm's? low idle versus over 3k rpm's?

I wish we had more info for the 4.7 for you, I will be interested how this one turns out.

I think it would be best to find out even if lubegard helps it. With hemi's EP additives actually solve the issue, I am doubting it would "solve" this unless it was lifters or perpendicular force.
 

rzr6-4

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That is great work there, rare we find such great examples of an issue. That cold one is key to this.

I dont know how exhaust would make the cold tick noise with cold fllood mode, doesnt make sense.

Now, the forum has done a ton of work on tick but mostly for hemi's, so with your engine you are like the canary in the coal mine as far as trying a lube strategy. I'm not sold that is lifters, but "if" it is lifters a lube strategy has more then a fair chance at working. If you have fresh or kinda fresh oil drop some lubegard biotech in there, it provides EP or extreme pressure additives that coat perpendicular force. That would be a starting point.

But I must admit we have no info on this with hemi tick because you are smarter then all of us, we should have done flood mode cold versus warm and we would have this info, so I thank you for that. If this issue is perpendicular in nature EP additives should help. Sadly most shelf oils do not have levels the white papers prove are most beneficial.

Thank you, i appreciate it.

I’m not completely sold on it being lifters either and like you said, Exhaust doesn’t make a ton of sense either, as it ticks even with the engine off. I am mostly basing it off the fact the noise does completely go away when it enters DFCO mode when coasting.

I will try lubeguard and see how it runs with some idling and some mild driving. Only other thing i can think of is it being a messed up wrist pin or something similar.

Can you rule out the exhaust because of the flood mode tick? Granted the gasses going through the exhaust are slower, lower pressure and of less volume, but you are still pushing it out at a fairly high speed and above atmospheric pressure. I would expect the tick to be much softer, but I don't know that it would go away entirely. Definitely open for debate though.

Like I said before, it's really easy to check for.
 

Burla

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It would be great if it were exhaust so I am hoping I'm wrong on that.
 
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Blackhawk

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I would think the answer has something to do with why it cold ticks in flood versus warm. What are the conditions in both of those situations, one lubrication, when warm those pieces have oil on them when cold they don't, also metal shrinks in the cold so could that be it? I think not because the tick is there when warm, makes me think it is a dry metal issue. You have perpendicular and rotational possibilities here. But, if so what explains the fact it ticks when warm, just not warm flood start. So it is also a load issue, it ticks cold flood and under load, any rpm's? low idle versus over 3k rpm's?

I wish we had more info for the 4.7 for you, I will be interested how this one turns out.

I think it would be best to find out even if lubegard helps it. With hemi's EP additives actually solve the issue, I am doubting it would "solve" this unless it was lifters or perpendicular force.
I am also interested in how this turns out.

The noise doesn’t go away at all until you let off the gas and coast. I’ve also noticed a fair lack of power too. Stays consistent and speeds up with engine RPM until the engine making enough sound from the exhaust to drown it out.

Before I checked anything, i originally thought it was a valve seat. Would be obvious as you’d have no compression on a cylinder. And it would kinda make sense for it to go out with the engine off, that right there is what stumps me the most. How does it go from being completely okay, to ticking THAT loud a few hours later?

I’ve had people tell me it could be a piston skirt, wrist pin, cracked piston, and so on. It just doesn’t make sense to me that it didn’t start gradually getting worse, it just happened overnight with the engine off.
 
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Blackhawk

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Can you rule out the exhaust because of the flood mode tick? Granted the gasses going through the exhaust are slower, lower pressure and of less volume, but you are still pushing it out at a fairly high speed and above atmospheric pressure. I would expect the tick to be much softer, but I don't know that it would go away entirely. Definitely open for debate though.

Like I said before, it's really easy to check for.
I can rule it out either tomorrow or the day after and let y'all know what happens, I plan on updating this post until i figure out what’s wrong. I need to listen to it crank warm and see if i still hear it if i listen very closely.
 

jws123

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I dont have time or the patience to read threw all the replys however I have rebuilt tons of 4.7s in fact im rebuilding 2 of them at the moment. From the vids you uploaded It is 100% time for a timing chain kit your tensioners/chains are shot also would make sense to do the lifters while your in there both do fail on these at least once in its life once thats done you have a bullet proof 4.7. Any time I get these motors no matter the miles its a automatic timing kit and lifters never had one come back.
 
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Blackhawk

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I dont have time or the patience to read threw all the replys however I have rebuilt tons of 4.7s in fact im rebuilding 2 of them at the moment. From the vids you uploaded It is 100% time for a timing chain kit your tensioners/chains are shot also would make sense to do the lifters while your in there both do fail on these at least once in its life once thats done you have a bullet proof 4.7. Any time I get these motors no matter the miles its an automatic timing kit and lifters never had one come back.
I want to replace those, and I most likely will when I get paid next. Both drivers and passenger bank get quite loose when they’re cold. Not sure how normal that is.
 
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Blackhawk

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Also, I have HP Tuners. Because of this i was able to record live data.

Code for P0158 cleared itself, and as it warmed back up again it came right back on. It’s pulling 40° ignition advance and around 12-13% short term fuel trims on both banks. It doesn’t pick up long term fuel trims.
 

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