At what point is valve\lifter clatter a warranty issue?

[Guyfromthenorth]

2019 5th gen 1500 4x4 Big Horn, 89,000km. 95% of the miles are highway miles, oil changes done on time with FRAM or similar name brand filters and good quality synthetic. Engine is plugged in on the block heater during the winter months when temps are -20 to -50 to ensure even the good oil doesn't turn to cement.

I'm 11,000km from the end of the engine warranty and considering that my first Ram was 28,000$, second was 39,000$, third was 44,000$, and the 5th was 58,000$, and on current estimates my 6th ram will be 1,000,000$, so I really want this one to be the one to "stay the long haul". I've noticed over the last 6mo that about every 5 or so engine starts I get -definitive- valve\lifter clatter for 5 seconds or so. It's not regular, sometimes happens when hot, sometimes when cold, sometimes right after shutting down and restarting. It's unpredictable at best. I live a 4hour one way drive from the dealer so it's not exactly easy to just pop-in and see if it does it while I'm there.

At what point should I be pushing for warranty work? Is 5sec or so of clackclackclack something to worry about? I can't tell if it's just an embarrassing sound at this point or if it's stripping the hard facing off my cams a little every time. When I say embarrassing I mean it, I sometimes hesitate to start it up at work with people around because it's a noticeable enough sound that others turn their heads and look. It's bad enough everytime it rains my rear brakes DROOOOOOOOOOONE in reverse for a few seconds.

It's -definitely- not an exhaust tick.
It doesn't carry on when driving.
It's got great oil pressure at idle, at temp, and at cruising speed.
I select good filters with a proper drainback valve on a spring, not the junky ones that just have a flexible plate in the bottom.
I almost always park on a perfectly flat grade, I'm not from San Francisco (obvious I'm sure from my winter temps mentioned...).

I've even done an early oil change just in case it was a junk filter letting things drain back only to have the sound appear the next day.

Thoughts? Is it worth my time to really press the dealer on this or is it just a "it'll be fine, even though it doesn't sound great" with these engines?

 

[kdoublep]

Maybe start with an oil analysis. You confirmed it's not anything related to manifolds? Heat shield loose? Broken bolt? Cracked mani?

I had some minor slap at start up but disappeared completely when I switched from 5w20 to 5w30. I also run lubegard.

Your description sounds a bit more than cold start slap if it's embarrassing you.

I know dealers will try to say noise is normal but your description sounds abnormal.

What weight oil do you run? Any video or sound to share?

 

[chri5k]

There might be a TSB out on the rear brake noise. Iirc the TSB says to add a brace upon customer complaint.

The clatter is more tricky. If you have a good relationship with the dealer and there is no codes being logged related to misfire they might go to bat for you with FCA. Misfire codes seem to be common on Hemi’s with bad cams.

 

[ramffml]

They won't fix it unless they start seeing codes or physical components peaking through the block. Neither will they care, they'll just say "working as designed" and hand you back your keys.

Many of us do get a cold start lifter tick for a few seconds. I've reduced mine by switching to oils that contain moly (the weight like "5w/20" vs "5w-30" doesn't make a difference in my truck, it's the brand/formula that matters) and also by using a good oil filter with a silicone anti drain back valve (fram xg2, royal purple etc).

kdoublep's advise on getting regular UOA's is also spot on. Might not help, but I know it definitely makes me sleep easier at night seeing those reports come back with excellent results.

 

[Guyfromthenorth]

Thanks for the info everyone. Yes for sure not a mani sound, 100% lifter/rod clack. I spent most of this week starting with my remote starter while recording video at the front bumper to catch it and surprise surprise not a sound lol. Maybe I just need to record my engine every single start up?

I did the brake tsb. It went away for 3 or 4 months. Came back. Went back to the dealer and they "out of good will" adjusted them and said good to go. No idea what they "adjusted" but it went away for a few months and came back again. Changed rear rotors and pads, greased my pins with silicone, went away for 3 or 4mo and now it's fall and it's back again. I just am learning to live with it at this point.

I'll find a better syn with moly. I've been using name brands when on sale but haven't looked for a moly blend. I was already in a habit of skipping moly for my motorcycles wet clutch but obviously no issue in a truck engine.

Maybe I'll try and catch it on video and ask the dealer about it. Maybe it'll be....fine? Lol

 

[pacofortacos]

If it's the first 5 sec. after starting, that is normal and has pushrod engines have done that for decades.
Does it happen more often when you start the truck and either not go anywhere or go on a very short trip? That's quite common and not a problem.

On mine oil filters matter as far as the startup lifter noise. I have good luck with Royal Purple and NAPA Platinum - large filters in both cases, but the small stock size works too in those brands.
You don't say which Fram filter.

I don't think the dealer will do anything, unless you pay for a teardown to check the cam - which might be cheap insurance - if it's damaged then it would be covered.

 

[ramffml]

I did the brake tsb. It went away for 3 or 4 months. Came back. Went back to the dealer and they "out of good will" adjusted them and said good to go. No idea what they "adjusted" but it went away for a few months and came back again. Changed rear rotors and pads, greased my pins with silicone, went away for 3 or 4mo and now it's fall and it's back again. I just am learning to live with it at this point.

For the brakes, I wd-40 the little gaps by the clips, takes 10 seconds and I keep a can in my truck. Lasts about 2 months before reapplying.

This is typical for FCA. Piston brakes have been around for decades but they still manage to bungle it up. That and the clunking from my driveshaft which has been there for 90,000 kms I've just lived with. It's a ram, clunks, squeaks, stuff busting, it comes with the low purchase price.

 

[BMiller541]

My Powerwagon is at the dealer for a related warranty repair. Apparently, a roller snapped off the end of a rocker arm.

 

[Tulecreeper]

For the brakes, I wd-40 the little gaps by the clips, takes 10 seconds and I keep a can in my truck. Lasts about 2 months before reapplying.

This is typical for FCA. Piston brakes have been around for decades but they still manage to bungle it up. That and the clunking from my driveshaft which has been there for 90,000 kms I've just lived with. It's a ram, clunks, squeaks, stuff busting, it comes with the low purchase price.

If Chevy or Ford would have let me order the same base truck that RAM did (instead of trying to make me buy one off the lot), the Silverado 2500 or Ford F-250 would have cost me several thousand dollars less than I paid for the RAM I ended up getting.

 

[ramffml]

If Chevy or Ford would have let me order the same base truck that RAM did (instead of trying to make me buy one off the lot), the Silverado 2500 or Ford F-250 would have cost me several thousand dollars less than I paid for the RAM I ended up getting.

I've heard that more than once, but in my experience and in North America in general that's not the case. Ram has always been the "value" brand, MSRP's are similar but most dealers are thirsty and far more willing to drop money on the hood.

For what I paid for my truck brand new, out the door, the GM dealer wanted an additional 10k CAD for a GMC Sierra base trim 4x4 with vinyl floors and the 5.3. MSRP was a tiny bit higher on my truck.

 

[Tulecreeper]

I've heard that more than once, but in my experience and in North America in general that's not the case. Ram has always been the "value" brand, MSRP's are similar but most dealers are thirsty and far more willing to drop money on the hood.

For what I paid for my truck brand new, out the door, the GM dealer wanted an additional 10k CAD for a GMC Sierra base trim 4x4 with vinyl floors and the 5.3. MSRP was a tiny bit higher on my truck.

Last winter I did a build-your-own thing for an F-250 on the Ford website and the price was somewhere around $44k, then went to the dealership and told them, "Sell me this truck." The sale guy said it had been at least 2 years since he had seen a truck go for less than about $52k, and I couldn't order one anyway - had to choose from the lot. I walked.

 

[ramffml]

Last winter I did a build-your-own thing for an F-250 on the Ford website and the price was somewhere around $44k, then went to the dealership and told them, "Sell me this truck." The sale guy said it had been at least 2 years since he had seen a truck go for less than about $52k, and I couldn't order one anyway - had to choose from the lot. I walked.

You're in the better truck now anyway

(though, that 7.3 would be enough to sway me over if it wasn't eating its own cams right now)

 

[18CrewDually]

My Powerwagon is at the dealer for a related warranty repair. Apparently, a roller snapped off the end of a rocker arm.

Do you mean lifter? As far as I know a stock Ram 6.4 rocker is a slipper foot not a roller.

 

[Tulecreeper]

You're in the better truck now anyway

(though, that 7.3 would be enough to sway me over if it wasn't eating its own cams right now)

 

[BMiller541]

Do you mean lifter? As far as I know a stock Ram 6.4 rocker is a slipper foot not a roller.

Apparently the 2019 Powerwagons have roller rockers. That's what the service advisor told me happened.

 

[Guyfromthenorth]

For the brakes, I wd-40 the little gaps by the clips, takes 10 seconds and I keep a can in my truck. Lasts about 2 months before reapplying.

This is typical for FCA. Piston brakes have been around for decades but they still manage to bungle it up. That and the clunking from my driveshaft which has been there for 90,000 kms I've just lived with. It's a ram, clunks, squeaks, stuff busting, it comes with the low purchase price.

Interesting. I'll have a look and see if I can try the same, thanks.

 

[Sherman Bird]

2019 5th gen 1500 4x4 Big Horn, 89,000km. 95% of the miles are highway miles, oil changes done on time with FRAM or similar name brand filters and good quality synthetic. Engine is plugged in on the block heater during the winter months when temps are -20 to -50 to ensure even the good oil doesn't turn to cement.

I'm 11,000km from the end of the engine warranty and considering that my first Ram was 28,000$, second was 39,000$, third was 44,000$, and the 5th was 58,000$, and on current estimates my 6th ram will be 1,000,000$, so I really want this one to be the one to "stay the long haul". I've noticed over the last 6mo that about every 5 or so engine starts I get -definitive- valve\lifter clatter for 5 seconds or so. It's not regular, sometimes happens when hot, sometimes when cold, sometimes right after shutting down and restarting. It's unpredictable at best. I live a 4hour one way drive from the dealer so it's not exactly easy to just pop-in and see if it does it while I'm there.

At what point should I be pushing for warranty work? Is 5sec or so of clackclackclack something to worry about? I can't tell if it's just an embarrassing sound at this point or if it's stripping the hard facing off my cams a little every time. When I say embarrassing I mean it, I sometimes hesitate to start it up at work with people around because it's a noticeable enough sound that others turn their heads and look. It's bad enough everytime it rains my rear brakes DROOOOOOOOOOONE in reverse for a few seconds.

It's -definitely- not an exhaust tick.
It doesn't carry on when driving.
It's got great oil pressure at idle, at temp, and at cruising speed.
I select good filters with a proper drainback valve on a spring, not the junky ones that just have a flexible plate in the bottom.
I almost always park on a perfectly flat grade, I'm not from San Francisco (obvious I'm sure from my winter temps mentioned...).

I've even done an early oil change just in case it was a junk filter letting things drain back only to have the sound appear the next day.

Thoughts? Is it worth my time to really press the dealer on this or is it just a "it'll be fine, even though it doesn't sound great" with these engines?

Good points and questions. I once bought a 1993 GMC Suburban with the 350 Small Block Chevy engine; in production since 1955. After then nearly 40 years, one would think GM got all the manufacturing Snafus out of them.... But NO!

At about 87,000 miles, it developed a "Thud, Thud, Thud" coming from the lower end of the engine upon either cold start overnight or extended shut off such as a work day. Took it to the Dealer, was told they had a pattern "problem", and that the issue wasn't a longevity issue.. They even admitted that, during manufacture, the crankshaft main bearing bores were not in alignment!

Although they admitted no culpability due to the 3 year old age combined with the mileage, they did replace the crankshaft main bearings only, not rod bearings. Surprisingly, the problem was gone.... for about a year and at 120.000 mile or so.

I suppose it wasn't a longevity issue, because it kept on thudding from then until about 201,000 miles when a Tornado deposited a tree lengthwise down the roof, crushing the vehicle similarly to what Tim Taylor did to Jill's 1955 Nomad! Needless to say, that ended that vehicle.

I have read and known a couple of issues at shops whom I know technicians at that the lifter noise in the HEMI engines IS a longevity issue. It is somewhat controllable with uber-expensive oils and filters, so it seems.
I wonder if anyone has used oil rated for *** (Volkswagen/ Audi Group), Porsche, or Mercedes in an effort to thwart this issue.

 

[Cmz2800]

2019 5th gen 1500 4x4 Big Horn, 89,000km. 95% of the miles are highway miles, oil changes done on time with FRAM or similar name brand filters and good quality synthetic. Engine is plugged in on the block heater during the winter months when temps are -20 to -50 to ensure even the good oil doesn't turn to cement.

I'm 11,000km from the end of the engine warranty and considering that my first Ram was 28,000$, second was 39,000$, third was 44,000$, and the 5th was 58,000$, and on current estimates my 6th ram will be 1,000,000$, so I really want this one to be the one to "stay the long haul". I've noticed over the last 6mo that about every 5 or so engine starts I get -definitive- valve\lifter clatter for 5 seconds or so. It's not regular, sometimes happens when hot, sometimes when cold, sometimes right after shutting down and restarting. It's unpredictable at best. I live a 4hour one way drive from the dealer so it's not exactly easy to just pop-in and see if it does it while I'm there.

At what point should I be pushing for warranty work? Is 5sec or so of clackclackclack something to worry about? I can't tell if it's just an embarrassing sound at this point or if it's stripping the hard facing off my cams a little every time. When I say embarrassing I mean it, I sometimes hesitate to start it up at work with people around because it's a noticeable enough sound that others turn their heads and look. It's bad enough everytime it rains my rear brakes DROOOOOOOOOOONE in reverse for a few seconds.

It's -definitely- not an exhaust tick.
It doesn't carry on when driving.
It's got great oil pressure at idle, at temp, and at cruising speed.
I select good filters with a proper drainback valve on a spring, not the junky ones that just have a flexible plate in the bottom.
I almost always park on a perfectly flat grade, I'm not from San Francisco (obvious I'm sure from my winter temps mentioned...).

I've even done an early oil change just in case it was a junk filter letting things drain back only to have the sound appear the next day.

Thoughts? Is it worth my time to really press the dealer on this or is it just a "it'll be fine, even though it doesn't sound great" with these engines?

If it’s something that is noticeable I would definitely take it to the dealer and let them know your concerns. Either way, the manufacturer covers that so they will be glad to do the work.

 

[pacofortacos]

If it’s something that is noticeable I would definitely take it to the dealer and let them know your concerns. Either way, the manufacturer covers that so they will be glad to do the work.

Actually they won't for 2 reasons, warranty doesn't pay for tear down (if no problem is found) and warranty labor time is not very good. So unless you agree to pay for the pre inspection tear down, most won't do it.

 

[Wild one]

Apparently the 2019 Powerwagons have roller rockers. That's what the service advisor told me happened.

Find a differant service advisor,and maybe dealership,as the 5.7's / 6.2's and 6.4's have never had roller rockers.They're a steel slipper rocker on a rocker shaft.And no your Powerwagon doesn't use a differant 6.4 from any other 6.4 equipped 2500 and up truck.The 6.4's in the 3500+ trucks do use a differant valve,but they still use the same rockers and rocker shafts as every other 6.4 uses.There has been a few hemi's break the rocker stands,but they're very few and far between,and it's usually guys running stiff valve springs and spinning the engine well in excess of 7500 rpm ,and in that case you have to replace the head